So today I thought of using a benchmark for my progress and I've came to a conclusion that Mark Rip's Total was a good indicator.
Though the norm is using PL big 3 - Bench, DL and Squat but I don't bench much..so I thought maybe shoulder press would be a good idea to sub that.

Read here on what total means -
http://journal.crossfit.com/2006/12/the-cr...by-mark-rip.tpl

Though I'm not really big on CF, I found this testing to be quite good for the average folk.
It doesn't need much skill or technique but its quite effective to determined the strength all around.

This the bench mark -
http://www.maxfxcrossfit.com/index.php?opt...id=50&Itemid=57

Today my total was @84.8kg/187lb - 312.kg/687lbs
In my weight class(181lbs), I'm inbtwn novice and intermediate.

Lifts as follow -
DL - 140kg
SP - 62.5kg
SQ- 110kg

I think i'll test my total once every 8 weeks and see how my progress has grown.
however the only problem I've found is that doing 1RM for 3 lifts is tough as hell. The first lift always feel great, the 2nd one doesn't really feel that good and the by the time you come to the 3rd one you'd be struggling...maybe i'm just weak

Just a friendly thread, please don't use it to boast/show off or troll people.
It would be interesting just to share your experience and what you do to improve certain lifts.

This post has been edited by weib: Jan 5 2010, 02:14 AM

I tot Bench press can be sub with Chest press? I'm new though. And, I do sub it too but with dumbbell bench press.

If you substitute barbell benchpress with dumbbell bench or even shoulder press, you'll be changing the CF benchmark a whole lot since you can definitely bench more with a barbell instead of shoulder pressing or dumbbell pressing.

Weib, first of all let me say I enjoy reading your blog, it's a wealth of good information.

As for strength standards, let me just lay out my opinions.

I believe it was Jim Wendler or Dave Tate who mentioned that if someone wants to reach an 'intermediate level', he should be:

Deadlifting 2x bodyweight

Squatting 1.5x bodyweight

Benching 1x bodyweight

These were minimum figures. In addition to that, I feel that you should also test your pullup or chinup strength (either through 1RM or no. of reps), since it's a test of relative strength.

I'm glad that you included the shoulder press, thought perhaps you should test BOTH bench press and shoulder press?

I also don't think it's a good idea to test all your lifts in one sesssion haha, perhaps split them up over 2 training days would give you the best indication of your progress. Are you on any particular program?

As for myself, the only lift I have tested recently was the deadlift, in which I went from never pulling more than 100kg to pulling 115kg as a 1RM in 3 weeks. I was on the Pavel's Russian Bear program, deadlifting 13 to 16 sets of 5 reps every training session (3 times a week). The best thing was that not only did it improve my deadlift, but today I noticed that front squats and bench were easier.

Strict shoulder press with full lock out is a very hard lift. (62.5kg I can do full lock out, @65kg I totally failed)
It takes alot of grinding and also full body effort, esp when you lift heavy shit above your head with no support.

If you're into Olifts, this is a good way to determined your base strength because these 3 lifts are the foundations of a C&J or Snatch.

Of course doesn't mean you can shoulder press alot or squat alot or even deadlift alot that you can C&J or Snatch alot.

That takes alot of practice and skill and you have to take into consideration balancing, correct timing and alot of precision.

Would be interesting to correlate C&J and snatch PRs with your total though..

My PR for C&J - half assed one is 85kg.

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Added on January 5, 2010, 5:52 pmThank you for the kind words.
I thought my ramblings were read by ghost lol..

Anyway why i choose the Total because of logistics feasibility.
All I need is a squat/power rack and a barbell with enough plates and I'm set which is quite common in community gyms here in singapore.

I'm looking into implementing it with my clients to test their growth, together with the cooper test for their cardiovascular conditioning.
So I'm really looking into simplicity - just a performance indicator for me.

If i had to use benchpress, then i would need a good bench rack where the J hooks allow the bar to slide out.
The bench press is actually more technical that it looks if you're doing the PL style.( or maybe I'm just making up an excuse for being weak!)

If i wanted to choose a horizontal push movement, then I'd just weighted dips as it is to me a more functional movement.

Also Total is an overall score which makes up for your weaker lifts - some people can't deadlift to save their life but squat like a monster.
So its more of a dynamic benchmark rather than static ones set by PL'ers like Jim or Dave; which is why I like it.

Currently now I'm dieting down, so i keep my gym routine short, sweet and simple - the last time I did a hardcore workout, i over trained and fell sick.
upper lower splits - 1 heavy lift for 5 x 5, I secondary lift for 3 x 5 , 1 accessory lift at 2 x 8 and 1 core for 3 x 5.

This post has been edited by weib: Jan 5 2010, 05:53 PM

desvaro,

13 sets of 5s. Crikey !

Yes I do agree that you need a good set up for the bench, a lot of it is technique. Personally I do not do the barbell bench press and stick with the dumbbell version instead. The main reason is because I had a rotator cuff tear. Dumbbells are almost painless, but barbells are painful haha.

I think when it comes to clients, you should look at ways that progress can be tested along the way. While I am not a personal trainer, I can attest to being extremely impatient. If I could I would test my 1RM every 2 weeks, which would obviously be counterproductive. This is why I like programs such as 5/3/1, where the testing is sort of 'built into the program'.

In the 5/3/1 program you're supposed to go as many reps as possible on the final set of the main exercise. The first time I used a certain weight, I barely managed 5 reps. 3 weeks later, I did 5 reps easily and ended up with 8 reps. Things like this is what clients usually want to see, rather than testing at the start of the program, then testing 12 weeks later. I also feel that it allows you to monitor the situation and know what to change. Using the previous example, if I did 5 reps easily and 3 weeks later did only 3, clearly something is wrong and it is a warning flag. I'm not saying don't test 1RM at all, I'm just saying you need to find a way to monitor constant progress.

Charles Poliquin says that when you work a certain bodypart, the next workout of the same workout should be 'go heavier or go home'. Which means that if you trained chest last monday, this monday you better be able to add at least a rep of two on the same exercises, or some form of progress. Of course it would be impossible to carry on progressing indefinitely, which is why he usually recommends changing things up every 6 workouts.

I personally feel that these type of 'testing' and 'performance indicators' would be more productive, because it allows you as a trainer to see what needs to be changed, and it makes the client feel good as well.

The issue of TOTALS also brings me to another concern, which is safety. Testing 1RM can be dangerous at times, in terms of muscular injury and also physical injury (dropping the weight etc). Charles Poliquin says that unless you're a powerlifter, it is recommended that you test 3RM instead and use it as 90%, so if your 3RM is 90kg then your 1RM would be 100kg. I feel that his point has great merits when it comes to testing OTHERS. Perhaps it's something that you should consider as well.

I'm starting to sound like a Poliquin fanboy lol.

I totally agree with you that weighted dips are a very functional movement, but not many can do it. I don't know about your client base, so maybe I am wrong.

While TOTAL does indeed cover up for your weaker lift, if you're testing you have to be very objective here. If you can squat a lot but not deadlift a lot, ignoring leverages and body types aside, don't you think that it means you SHOULD be working towards deadlifting more?

As for the cooper test, is it actually still valuable? I know most sports teams move away from cooper test in favour of beep test due to the fact that the cooper test is long slow state activity while the beep test is more intervals. I know I'd rather do the beep than cooper cause it's boring as hell.

Shanecross, believe me it was hell lol.

why do 13 sets of deadlifts for 5 reps when you can save the energy for other workouts.

err change every 6th workout?

Maybe if you're in the advance stage, most folks who start training won't need to change anything up for at least 2-3 years before they really plateau.

During which they'd be learning more on technique and the SAID would be increasing the weight slowly.

Not all the weighted workout should be heavy, it really is dependant on the person's recovery and overall caloric intake - goals.

I'm not training athletes, I'm training housewives and middle age men.
I don't see a point doing a beep test, cooper test is good enough.

This post has been edited by shanecross: Jan 6 2010, 07:45 PM

If I state my max weights, people here would say I'm a fake and liar.

Yea, my max effort are:

squat is 30kg, deadlift 35kg, leg press 80kg, bench press 20kg, DB shoulder press 20lbs, chest press 30kg, DB pullover 25lbs, leg extension 30kg, DB stiffleg deadlift 15lbs, barbell row 10kg, DB row 20lbs, lats pulldown 20kg.

I'm still a rookie btw.

http://www.mynameisandrew.net/2009/11/16/h...lifting-straps/

I think you made a fool out of yourself again...

Something is not right here as pointed out by shanecross.



Desvaro, i m still adapting to 5/3/1 in my big 3. Yeah the final 5 rep+ is can hardly push to 4th reps for squat. Guess tats the fun part in this program? Or the weight is just barely too heavy or the warm up set is too heavy ? i warm up with 40%->50%->60% then 5/5/5. Gosh i got to finish tat book. ><

This post has been edited by jamis: Jan 7 2010, 02:12 PM

You all so hardcore. I small fry only. Even deadlift 30kg also can't perform correctly, poor form. Always hurt my back wan.

I lift weights like girl wan. I cannot do heavy heavy wan. If I say I do heavy heavy wan, people will say I full of shit wan.

your weight is too heavy (which cycle are u on?, as in your first cycle ? ). always start too light - one of the basic tenets in the book. recalculate ur maxes again.

I was overzealous with my military press and it progress the least amongst the four lifts

This post has been edited by ken86: Jan 7 2010, 02:27 PM

zzzzzzzzz shut up la zeist.
everyone here remembers u la.
koyak orgasm.
then 320kg leg press.
bit mouth ranting this and that.
now coming here and talking this crap?
get a life dude.

so this is the dude u were mentioning hahahaha

What is koyak orgasm?

See I tell you all oledi wan. I must lift light light only, lift heavy people no belip one.

Leg press 320kg? I where got so powderful like you guys. I only 80kg.

I lift weights like girl, no mass wan. Until still no progress. iz it bekos of my weights? I can't lift heavy wan, will injure myself later.

Yes first cycle, i put my max as 219lbs guess i gona lower it down and attempt again next week.

you need 90% of that max. I suggest taking a perceived 5RM weight and do as many reps as you can and calculate your 1RM based on the formula in the book.

then you based your 5/3/1 on 90% of the 1RM calculated.

say my deadlift max is 405 lbs , I start at 90% of it which is 365 lbs. 365lbs will be my NEW 1RM for 5/3/1 NOT 405 LBS ! this is discussed vehemently by jim wendler

This ensure long term progress.

1st cycle and u failed at 4th rep , you definitely miscalculate it by a big margin. The expected rep range for 1st cycle is at least 10-12 reps, I've seen ppl going up to 15-18 reps in the eliteFTS comment section.

Moral of the story - start light to ensure long term progress.

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Added on January 7, 2010, 2:50 pmi was going through your journal.

You need to be mentally psyched for 219 lbs, you failed several times due to 'not being ready'

219lbs is definitely not your max for 5/3/1

This post has been edited by ken86: Jan 7 2010, 02:51 PM

exactly! =.=
hehe, this time he is back trying to make a fool out of himself, which he already did.
and everyone make a laughing stock out of him.

thats his favourite quote every sentence he make that makes it look so stupid.
if u really hard working, then go read back the old old threads. u can find him talking a lot back then.
he brags a lot being able to do this and that, once ask him whether has he done it. he just change topic

zeist, how is ur deadlift? u were so confident u can lift this and that in a month or so.
bla this bla that. if u had come back and talk nice stuff, nobody would bother shooting u.
u come back and acted like an arsehole, of coz sure get shoot again la.

the unnecessary humbling makes you sound like a woman

I feel so intimidated. what should I do?

Is it wrong to lift weights like a girl?

Depends, are you a hot girl?

If so, please do..

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Added on January 8, 2010, 2:33 amI LOL`ed

I like what I see, you're a hilarious troll.




This post has been edited by weib: Jan 8 2010, 02:33 AM

Actually, its true.
She is a girl. =.=
opps... did i said she? haha...
ya, agreed... he is full of shit.
since b4, and never changed a bit. =.=

See, lift heavy weight, people say full of shit. Lift light weight also full of shit. Can I try medium weight this time?



This post has been edited by zeist: Jan 8 2010, 06:05 AM

Icic , thx for the head up ken. Yeah have to recalculate my maxes. Tats gona be my homework tonight. Aft i sort it out i gona start with first cycle again and make sure everything is going alright then i will get into the training

lol, sent me the book but you never read it properly before start

lol, i only read half, yet to finish. My project pop up so sudden that i cant finish the dam book. gona finish it this weekend

I just got the SS DVD, skim thru it.
Looks like I need to revise my technique further.