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Sociology Why Na'vi Tribes Not Technologically Advanced?, Avatar & Anthropology

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TSPolaris
post Jan 2 2010, 03:26 AM, updated 16y ago

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One of the most difficult things to get right in movies about aliens or the future is matching the cultural and technological sophistication of a people with their environment and history. In Avatar, the Na'vi are portrayed as a Stone Age tribe, living in relatively small groups and essentially ignorant or uninterested in technology beyond simple knives and bows.

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And most importantly, the Na'vi have regular and intimate access to a moon-sized supercomputer -- a neural net supercomputer at that -- that connects them to every other living thing on their world and have had such access for what could be millennia.

It just doesn't add up. The Na'vi are too capable and live in an environment that is far too pregnant with technological possibility to be stuck in the Stone Age. Plot-wise it's convenient for them to be the way they are, but the Na'vi really should have been more technologically advanced than the Earthlings, not only capable of easily repelling any attack from Captain Ironpants but able to keep the mining company from landing on the moon in the first place.
http://kottke.org/09/12/avatar

This blogger has a point, with mobility, resources, and something resembling an organic planetary INTERNET accessible at all times for hundreds of years why aren't they more technologically advanced?

An explanation could be they were highly advanced, but some doomsday weapon wiped everything out and turned back the clock in terms of technology. hmm.gif
Boolean
post Jan 2 2010, 04:13 AM

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The reason we have such technologies today is cause we manipulate our resources with full control.

Now on Pandora, if you pluck out a single tree leaf, Egwa will know... and probably send a mutant rhino after you. The Na'vi is aware that everything is about maintaining balance, therefore, a perfect natural ecosystem in order to thrive.

i think the one who kena own doomsday weapon are the humans.. so that's why their on Pandora to blast out the mineral thingie.... probably to make better weapons.

azarimy
post Jan 2 2010, 07:12 AM

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science was born out of rationalism. rationalism born out of the need to understand the surroundings. necessities brought over creativity, and creativity utilizes science to develop technology.

there are a few things that MIGHT be absent on pandora.

rationalism is something that is not clearly defined. they also have little need more than they already have. just like the tribes in rural areas currently existing in malaysia, australia and much in afrika. we have the technology to help them, but some still prefer to live in their old ways.

imagine if an alien landed in afrika (and did not come in contact with other parts of the world), they might assume that earthlings are just as primitive as we see the na'vis biggrin.gif.
SUSalaskanbunny
post Jan 2 2010, 08:21 AM

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read guns, germs and steel... it explains the difference between the developement of humans in diff part of the planet
fenzodahl512
post Jan 2 2010, 05:49 PM


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Err.. Its a "movie" whistling.gif


JunWisewar
post Jan 2 2010, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(fenzodahl512 @ Jan 2 2010, 05:49 PM)
Err.. Its a "movie"  whistling.gif
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Yeah, but still we can assume it as real and discuss it right? biggrin.gif
dopodplaya
post Jan 2 2010, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(JunWisewar @ Jan 2 2010, 06:15 PM)
Yeah, but still we can assume it as real and discuss it right?  biggrin.gif
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In a "what-if" situation, but still discussing an "imaginary" civilization and taking it as "real" is a bit unrealistic, isn't it?
Boolean
post Jan 3 2010, 02:25 AM

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QUOTE(dopodplaya @ Jan 2 2010, 07:06 PM)
In a "what-if" situation, but still discussing an "imaginary" civilization and taking it as "real" is a bit unrealistic, isn't it?
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i think its fun to temporarily indulge myself in these kind of stuff once in awhile.

Like discussing how can Superman manage to catch Lois Lane as she plunges down at 50 miles an hour with his bare hands, decelerating just in time 2 inches above the ground while she miraculously did not suffer massive internal pulverizing from his arms of steel.

Imagination + logic... we do that a lot as kids biggrin.gif
nice.rider
post Jan 3 2010, 06:48 AM

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Suppose that oneself consciousness is being transported to another body, would it be correct to say that you (the consciousness) had a new body, or that body had a new consciousness (you)? Could you regard yourself as the same person, with a different body? Perhaps you could.

Suppose the body were of the opposite sex, could you regard yourself as the same person?

Suppose the consciousness is being transported to an animal, could you regard yourself as the same person? Much of what makes you, your personality, capabilities and so forth, is tied to chemical and physical conditions of the new body (animal). And what if your memory were wiped out during the transfer? Does it then make any sense at all to regard the new animal as you?

These questions arise when one speculates about "duplication of the self" regardless of any forms. And this is one of the centric philosophies in Hinduism and Buddhism.

If you are interested, kindly refers to “consciousness” topic for additional discussion.

Extract from wiki, in a 2007 interview with Time magazine, Cameron addressed the meaning of the film's title, answering the question "What is an avatar, anyway?" Cameron stated, "It's an incarnation of one of the Hindu gods taking a flesh form."
He said that "in this film what that means is that the human technology in the future is capable of injecting a human's intelligence into a remotely located body, a biological body". Cameron stated, "It's not an avatar in the sense of just existing as ones and zeroes in cyberspace. It's actually a physical body."

hazairi
post Jan 3 2010, 10:12 AM

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Na'vi people, they don't need technology. They are already an advance biological creature which connected directly to the nature. They can be said as 50% plant.
fenzodahl512
post Jan 3 2010, 02:39 PM


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QUOTE(Boolean @ Jan 3 2010, 02:25 AM)
i think its fun to temporarily indulge myself in these kind of stuff once in awhile.

Like discussing how can Superman manage to catch Lois Lane as she plunges down at 50 miles an hour with his bare hands, decelerating just in time 2 inches above the ground while she miraculously did not suffer massive internal pulverizing from his arms of steel.

Imagination + logic... we do that a lot as kids biggrin.gif
*
Err.. again, this is PhD School section.. Not "tadika" one..

Imaginary technology = maybe okay as long as we have a will and knowledge on how to achieve it

Imaginary culture/civilization = err.. Good to make movies.. but that's it! I wonder if we're still remembering Ewok.. Without them, Lucas Skywalker, Princess Leia, and Han Solo wouldn't succeed laugh.gif
azarimy
post Jan 3 2010, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(Boolean @ Jan 2 2010, 06:25 PM)
i think its fun to temporarily indulge myself in these kind of stuff once in awhile.

Like discussing how can Superman manage to catch Lois Lane as she plunges down at 50 miles an hour with his bare hands, decelerating just in time 2 inches above the ground while she miraculously did not suffer massive internal pulverizing from his arms of steel.

Imagination + logic... we do that a lot as kids biggrin.gif
*
this have been discussed before.

superman have the ability to alter the state of those he comes in contact with. this allows him to snatch a person in split second without suffering from concussions or whiplash effect. this is also the same ability that allows him to bring another person to fly with him.
TSPolaris
post Jan 4 2010, 07:53 AM

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Yes this is a movie but it's also a sci-fi story, which means some plausible science is needed for the story to work.

In the movie, humans excel in science, but science is just a low level tool subservient to the whims of mega-corporations. Mercenaries for hire become private armies for the purpose of looting and destruction. This is as near as it gets to what is really happening right now in 2010.

The origin of science is curiosity, and all science starts from examining stuff with the mind of a child, all the way to re-examining advanced concepts as if they were still 'tadika' level in the hopes of breaking ever newer frontiers. Now you could say the Na'vi emphasizes warrior training over intellectual study, but even so surely a millennial old database could give any curious Na'vi some idea for innovation, but if we use the rule "necessity is the mother of invention" then we need to examine which areas of Na'vi life are under some sort of pressure to improve.

Example: Compare & Contrast

Transportation -
Communication -
Entertainment -
Warfare & Defense -
Housing -
Agriculture -
Education -
Healthcare -
Economy -
etc..

What's the incentive to make things better, faster, and in bigger numbers? Is there a major threat (there is now, seeing as the humans will probably come back with a vengeance and deploy nukes/bioweapon to obtain the Unobtanium)

Back to our world, Avatar presents a mirror image critique of the present state of the human condition:

1. You could say we've came a long way from the stone age, but then again, by not improving upon the systems used so successfully in the previous centuries to deal with TODAY'S COMPLEX ISSUES, we are actually coming face to face with diseconomies of scale, the costs > the benefits.

2. "Dead World" means what? Cold winter from nuclear war? Food supply system devastated from the effects global warming? Supervirus epidemic? Social chaos from unsustainable overpopulation?

3. Most important, what is humanity's VALUE SYSTEM? From the movie it looks like the priorities are.. #1. Money, #2. Things (resources/fuel/beer), #3. People, #4. Flora & fauna -- as an afterthought.




~lynn~
post Jan 5 2010, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(Polaris @ Jan 4 2010, 07:53 AM)
Back to our world, Avatar presents a mirror image critique of the present state of the human condition:

1. You could say we've came a long way from the stone age, but then again, by not improving upon the systems used so successfully in the previous centuries to deal with TODAY'S COMPLEX ISSUES, we are actually coming face to face with diseconomies of scale, the costs > the benefits.

2. "Dead World" means what? Cold winter from nuclear war? Food supply system devastated from the effects global warming? Supervirus epidemic? Social chaos from unsustainable overpopulation?

3. Most important, what is humanity's VALUE SYSTEM? From the movie it looks like the priorities are.. #1. Money, #2. Things (resources/fuel/beer), #3. People, #4. Flora & fauna -- as an afterthought.
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My thought too. I felt the 'invasion' was just so American like, while the planet Pandora was Earth's counterpart of Iraq.

Like, the stuff they want are exactly underneath where they live? Couldn't sound more like the Iraq war to me XD
lin00b
post Jan 5 2010, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Jan 3 2010, 09:47 PM)
this have been discussed before.

superman have the ability to alter the state of those he comes in contact with. this allows him to snatch a person in split second without suffering from concussions or whiplash effect. this is also the same ability that allows him to bring another person to fly with him.
*
so whoever he touch becomes the temporary person of steel?
lionelzc
post Jan 5 2010, 12:48 AM

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Hmmm... Since the Na'vi can connect to their supercomputer and access all their ancestors knowledge, they don't need to advance so much.

I mean for transport they have the horses(not sure what they are called) and ikran/banshee for flight(though only for one person).

And also since advancement needs sacrifices (cutting trees,minig for minerals and oil), the Na'vi can't do that as they are linked to every other living thing via their supercomputer.

The strange thing is how come they have carbon fibre in their bones when the gravity their is lesser?

SUSjoe_star
post Jan 5 2010, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(fenzodahl512 @ Jan 3 2010, 02:39 PM)
Err.. again, this is PhD School section.. Not "tadika" one..

Imaginary technology = maybe okay as long as we have a will and knowledge on how to achieve it

Imaginary culture/civilization = err.. Good to make movies.. but that's it! I wonder if we're still remembering Ewok.. Without them, Lucas Skywalker, Princess Leia, and Han Solo wouldn't succeed laugh.gif
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I believe it was Einstein who said that we should always look at the universe as children do to the world without preconceived notions smile.gif.

I dont think its too far-fetched to discuss how a civilization may remain stagnant/regress despite having a huge number of resources at their disposal. In this case, I believe it was their culture that "held them back" (perhaps for the better). While their technology might have appeared stone age, the sheer wealth of resources the had did not appear to really cause them to have a particularly poor quality of life either.
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post Jan 5 2010, 01:32 PM

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It's quite easy to explain actually. The evolution process at Pandora occur much later than earth. It's the same as if advance alien race visit earth during stone age.

Eywa has a lot of potential to improve Na'vi lifestyle, but because their evolution has yet to reach that level, it was not put in proper use. Same goes with human race and hydrocarbon, gun powder.

Their respect for nature is synonym to religion. Destroying the nature is almost the same as sun eclipse to ancient people.

Their ability to connect with creatures, well, it's like sixth sense. Unless we have it, we won't know how it feels. It like trying to explain sight to a blind man. Having the ability doesn't mean they must be able to create intellectual device to enhance that ability. Human have sight, but it was not until thousands of year later that we discover how to enhance this sense (telescope and microscope).
Omnitricks
post Jan 7 2010, 03:01 PM

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Haha, I didn't really like the movie, plot-wise and with the character development. But there topic does seem to point something to think about.

I think the statement,
"But the Na'vi are also very physically capable, obviously very intelligent, aware of their global environment, well-nourished, healthy, omnivorous, adaptive, and even inventive.

They have domesticated animals, are troubled by few serious natural predators, can live in different environments, have easy access to many varied natural resources (for sustenance and building/making), and can travel and therefore communicate over long distances (dozens if not hundreds of miles a day on their winged animals).

And most importantly, the Na'vi have regular and intimate access to a moon-sized supercomputer -- a neural net supercomputer at that -- that connects them to every other living thing on their world and have had such access for what could be millennia."

would explain it the most. Its like today, our way of living evolved throughus adapting. Like tools last time were created in order to make life more convienient. Or a better example would be a computer is needed to process data but the more data is needed to be processed, the RAM is it needs to be upgraded. So for the Na'vi tribe, we could say that they already have quite a lot of convieniences or are already confortable with their lifestyle. Also with that, their culture may also be helping to soften any other inconvieniences they have. Just saying only, haha.
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post Jan 7 2010, 03:09 PM

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The navi chose to live that way... they respect nature therefore technology isnt needed.



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