It's a given that there is more pressure to succeed today than there was back then, hence the short lifespan amongst managers. Having said that, Liverpool are known to be one of the more patient clubs when it comes to dealing with their managers. I mean how many times have we actually sacked a manager. Houllier left by "mutual consent".

There is another notable saying to contradict that mate and it goes, "no player is bigger than the club". Liverpool was Liverpool before Stevie, Jamie and Nando. Liverpool will still live on after they're gone. Back then it could also have been said that Liverpool would not be Liverpool without Rush, Hansen, Grobbelar, Barnes, etc. Before that Liverpool would not have been Liverpool without Neal, Clemence, Hughes, etc. Fact of the matter is that players like managers come and go, but the club remains.

I'm not sure if we have class at the moment. 20 years without a league title would back up my suspicions. Fowler? He never regained his form after leaving Liverpool unfortunately.



I thought he was immense against Portsmouth although we lost. Carra may not be having the best of seasons but unlike many of the other players, he still has passion and he still plays with heart. When you aren't in the best of forms, you can at least play as though it means something to you and you can bet your bottom dollar that Carra will bleed for the team.

I'm no football analyst but one thing that is clear as day is that we often struggle in the final third. How many times have we dominated possession but mustered only a handful of shots on goal? We lack imagination where it matters, in front of goal. Often there is a lack of numbers going forward which beckons me to question Rafa's safety first approach to games. We're already languishing behind the likes of Villa, Birmingam, Spurs and City, and we're at the halfway point of the season. If we continue to get the results we've been getting, we'll be lucky to finish in the top 6, let alone the top 4. At some point, we'll have to consider throwing caution into the wind, pushing more players forward just like we did towards the tail end of last season.

On the flipside you have games like the one against Portsmouth where we only managed a shot on target. Also, when I say "cautious" approach, it isn't only in reference to the way we set up before a game. When we go ahead, we often invite teams on instead of going for the jugular. Posted this yesterday saying we need to be a little more ruthless and kill games off.



This was most evident during the first leg against Fiorentina when our flanks were constantly exposed, and Aurelio was supposed to take over Masch's role of providing cover from central midfield.



There isn't a doubt that Carra is a safety first type defender. It's my opinion that you need a centreback pairing that complements one another. Carra the no-nonsense, umcompromising defender and Agger the more mobile defender with better footwork and passing ability. There isn't a doubt that Carra isn't the most gifted footballer but it's hard to come across one with as much heart.

In terms of having players drop back to receive the ball, I think either Lucas or Masherano have been doing that. The problem is that neither are good distributors of the ball. They often get pressed and end up having to pass the ball back to Reina.

Well it's like I've said before, it's conceivable to believe that most good managers will be able to build a brilliant team given the resources. What then differentiates them however is how well they do with a limited budget. It isn't about holding a good hand, it's about how well you play with the hand you've been dealt. Look at how Alex McLeish is getting on, or even Roy Hodgson at Fulham. Basically we have clubs punching above their weight and I feel, we're punching below ours.

I hear what you're saying about the failed managers bit. I'll go out on a stretch to say that current managers have a political game to play and generally try to remain as diplomatic as possible with their peers. You have your exceptions of course. Neither Wenger nor Martinez have any reason to say anything negative about Rafa.

well carra's a little too old to develop at this point. It's no secret he can't pass. Look what happened when he played defensive mid for England back then. Teams basically backed away from him allowing him all the time he wanted on the ball knowing he wasn't a threat with it. If anything I think a big portion of his contribution is away from the pitch. He is the consumate professional and is a good role model not just for fans but for the younger players as well.

I honestly have no idea what gerrard has done to justify his selection

It just reinforces how important it is for us to qualify for next season's tournament.

The thing that stood out to me however was the fact that we managed just 1 point against Lyon and Fiorentina over 4 games, with us failing to score more than one goal in any match. It is pretty alarming if you ask me. If we were in the Europa league at the start of the season, I'd say we had a pretty good chance of winning it but if you consider the form that we're in, who is going to stick his neck out to say we'll turn the Romanians over in our first game?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 22 2009, 10:03 PM

Erm hope the players play much better?

If there is room for improvement, I feel it's in the engine room where we currently lack creativity, and midfielders with good distribution ability. We need to stop bypassing the midfield each time we play the ball up from defense, especially when we are pegged back. We need to play our way out of trouble instead of launching hopeful punts up the park. For that to happen, we either need to drop Gerrard further back or bring in a player with a little more creativity than Lucas and Masch, and who is more composed on the ball. Is our Aquilani the answer? It remains to be seen.

I'd opt for the latter and I'm also interested to see how Benayoun will do if played behind Torres. Yossi is arguably our most creative player and he tends to drift infield anyway. It's similar to how we sometimes played Garcia in the hole when we needed to unlock defences. The Spaniard was at that time touted to be our most creative player as well. Some may say that Benayoun may be a little slight to play in that position but Garcia is no giant either.

Can't remember the last time we set out with a 4-4-2 formation.

I subscribe to the same philosophy. The thing is, you and I are here for the long run while the manager and coaching staff do not have the luxury of delivering delayed gratification. Given the pressure he's under, he needs instant rewards. Torres has scored a third of our goals this season despite being absent during parts of our campaign so far. We're a team that is heavily reliant on him and Gerrard to get the goals. The only other match winner in the side is Benayoun. This is the danger of building your team around key players I suppose, instead of building a team and having players slot into the various positions and roles.

An absolutely crucial result, especially given that we were beaten 3-1 by Villa earlier in the season. I hope this result gives the lads the confidence they need to propel us up the table.

If there is a negative, it's that our over-reliance on Torres stood out once again. Kudos to him for being the fastest player in our club's history to reach the 50 goal mark. I'm just hoping he doesn't aggrevate his injury and we lose him for a lenghty amount of time.

If anything, I think Rafa hit the nail on the head when he said he had just signed the best keeper in Spain when he brought Pepe to the club. We've been leaking goals this season but through no fault of Reina's. He has more than justified his pay rise.

Agreed. The defensive error was masked by Reina's instintive save. Time and time again, we leave our far post exposed, even during open play. How did Insua end up marking Richard Dunne anyway? Reina showed good reflexes but had Downing's effort been even an inch more to the left, it would have flown in past him.

Incidentally, the match is being replayed on ESPN now.

Well I'm sure we had all set our sights on the top spot especially after last season, so there's your answer. Instead, we're aiming for fourth now.

We aren't particularly small at the back. Daniel Agger is 6'3" and so is Martin Skrtel. Both are just an inch shorter than Sami Hyypia. Jamie Carragher is 6'1". Yet we are still suspect in the air when it comes to defending crosses and corners. This brings up my next point.

Having height doesn't necessarily mean you're good in the air. For his height, Crouchie should be posing more of an aerial threat. Hyypia was strong defensively in the air but didn't score too many on the other end of the field. Centrehalves like Gallas, Puyol and Rafael Marquez are all under 6' tall. Fabio Cannavaro is the shortest of the lot at 5'9". Tim Cahill is 5'10" and he is a master in aerial warfare. Think having a big leap is more important than being a giant.

Hyypia was indeed good at defending crosses but at 6'5", you'd expect him to have scored a little more than 22 goals in 317 appearances. I remember us first signing him when I was over studying in Australia and if anything, I don't remember him ever being dominant in the opposition's airspace. It could be to do with his lack of mobility. Afterall, while you can still clear impending danger on the defensive end by glancing the ball away, you need to really attack the ball to generate sufficient power to score a goal.

Interesting question. I have a couple of opinions on this.

1) When we conceed from open play, it's often when a cross is played to the far post. It could be that because Insua and Johnson are given the freedom to go up and attack to often, we are left exposed on the flanks, the Fiorentina game being a classic example. We can talk about dealing with the cross when it comes in, but if you subscribe to the notion that prevention is better than cure, then we need to close down players before they get a cross in. I'm not sure if there are statistics to show how many crosses we conceed in game. Remember Istanbul and how Gerrard was deployed at right-back deep in the second half to cut down the number of crosses Serginho was playing in? If not for fantastic interceptions from Carra (twice) and Traore, the game would not have gone into extra time.

2) We look suspect when defending from setpieces and you just have to bring up the topic of zonal marking again. I'm not pro or for it because it's worked for us some seasons and it hasn't this season so what has changed? If you ask me, you need to deploy a mixed marking system. If you take the Villa game as an example, Insua was tasked with marking Richard Dunne because he took up a position at the far post whenever they got a corner. That effectively meant that one of their biggest players was matched against our smallest. In my opinion, you need to pit your strongest in the air against their strongest and the rest can take up zonal positions. The flaw with zonal marking is that defenders react to the movements of their opponents. If the opposition time their runs right, they'll always be a step ahead of the defender who only moves towards the said player, when he enters their zone. This puts the defender at a disadvantagous position especially when your opponent is a dominant force in the air. If memory serves me, the opposition player often gets well clear of any of our defenders whenever they have scored from a corner.

My 2 cents.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 31 2009, 09:07 AM

The reason I mentioned a mix of zonal and marking is because you don't always get the tallest brute in the 6 yard box. You get the likes of Dunne drifting to the far post pitting him against the dimunitive Insua. I don't care how much Insua attacks the ball, he isn't going to with a header against your Terry's or even Dunne's. True we do get caught ball watching but I've lost count the number of times the likes of Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard and Carragher have come 2nd best to the ball.

Not many positives to take away from the match. We were outplayed for by a struggling team that looked like they wanted it more. Like many of the pundits, I expected a pretty convincing win but was left flabbergasted when I saw the way we were playing and by the time the 2nd half got under way, all I was hoping for was a draw. A loss at this stage of the competition against inferior opposition would have been nothing short of a disaster.

You know what I'm really sick of? It really irks me when we make teams like Reading and Portsmouth look like some of Europe's finest. It's annoying to have your players either keep punting the ball aimlessly up the park, or passing it back at each given opportunity. I'm not sure if they are just playing to instruction but it seems that everytime we have possession near the half way line, the ball ends up being played all the way back to Reina. It's like no one is given the freedom, or wants to shoulder the responsibility of creating opportunities when on the ball.

For a diminutive guy, Insua doesn't really have much acceleration does he? How often did Aurelio have to go supersonic to help him out? Insua has been doing really well but his lack of pace means he'll always struggle against quick winners which is a big concern considering how crap we are at dealing with crosses this season.

Yes this is a cup tie and we've all heard the age old cliche about the mystique that surrounds these cup ties, where seemingly rubbish teams play above themselves but we set out with pretty much our first team this morning.

On any other given day, you could have thumped them had you converted the chances you created but I see where you're coming from. I only watched the last 30 mins of the game but like us, you didn't seem to have a midfield last night. When you did get to the final third of the pitch, you were crowded out . Some may argue that Leeds could have snatched it near the end but that was only because you pushed forward having needed to get a goal. I'd have to say that out of all the results, this has to be the most shocking one. Well this will all be forgotten when you lift the Premiership title come the end of the season eh

On a more serious note, I had a chat with a colleague of mind this morning. He's an ardent Manc and he highlighted to me the seriousness of your plight this season. He pointed out that although you are second in the table, it's only because Chelsea have themselves been dropping valuable points and Arsenal have a chance to overtake you guys if they win their games in hand. The conversation didn't go beyond that but I guess the common outtake is that it's going to be harder for any of the "top four" teams to this season because of the emergence of new contenders. Better for neutrals but not good for the blood pressure of fans supporting the big sides.

I see what you mean and if you ask me it brings up the point I made much earlier about adopting a more positive approach to the game. We may say that the players lack motivation but maybe it's because they are instructed to play the way they have been. Lucas' report card says he is an attacking minded player so given the option, why would he keep passing the ball back? Keeping possession seems to be Rafa's priority but what is the point in keeping the ball but only mustering a shot on goal against Portsmouth? I really do wonder if the likes of Lucas and Ryan Babel are not reaching their potential because they are playing with too many restrictions. If they are it can only lead to frustration which in turn leads to a drop in motivation levels.

Are we playing to the strength of our players or are we trying to fit square pegs into round holes by asking them to take up unfamiliar roles e.g. Aurelio/Dossena on the left wing, Kuyt playing wide right instead of on the right of a 3 pronged attack, Lucas at defensive mid. This is where the manager has to make a decision. Do I continue to insist they play in those positions until they get it right, or do I change my tactics to suit their strenghts? It's obvious that when we were more positive, we were a handful and this was proven last season.

It can but only as a variation. It shouldn't be your only tactic or we become predicatable as we did under Houllier. Team sat deep thus negating Owen's pace. I do agree however that we do quite often, look lost when in possession.

To be fair, a defender's priority should be to defend. Only in the last decade or so have fullbacks been 'expected' to be steam up the pitch, weaving past their counterparts to play an important role in attack. Dossena isn't as good at defending if you ask me. Insua may be small but he is a touch combatitive defender. He does however continue to look exposed especially when he doesn't have Mascherano around to gallop across as cover. We could do much worse than him at the moment.

I wouldn't get my panties in a twist over the sale of Guthrie, Warnock and Sissoko as none of them are making any headlines. Guthrie is a limited player while Warnock lacks concentration. Don't get me wrong, he has heart and he is a local lad, something that strikes a cord with me. I've always maintained that we need a Scouse element in the team. However, he is a little reckless and prone to the occasional error. He isn't any quicker than Insua either. Sissoko runs himself to the ground but that's about it. Masherano is a far better player than he is. As for Alonso, well everyone knows what I think about how Rafa treated our Spanish Mozart.

On the notion that we need real wingers to play good football, I disagree. If I recall, Chelsea won the league a few seasons back playing with a 4-3-3 formation with Robben and Cole flanking Drogba. They played with 3 central mids as well, effectively making them a narrow team which still managed to chalk up various 1-0 victories. Cole is right footed. It's good to have options in the end. It necessarily a bad thing to have a right footed player on the left or vice versa. Gives you the option of drifting in and taking a shot on goal with your strong foot instead of your weaker one.