hi everyone. i just finished my a levels, waiting for my results that's gonna be released at the end of january next year.

i have a strong interest in mathematics, i always get A for math and i took further math as one of my subjects in a levels but haha i never really did very well in that. but i found the exam ok. just have to wait for january to see.

anyway, my best subjects are chemistry and math. i obviously have more passion in math than chemistry but i love chemistry as well. i've been looking up actuarial science. it really seems to be very interesting. the thing getting my down is that i have to study at least 8 years till i actually become a professional. i have to work and study and i dont think i can keep up. if i only have my degree, what's the benefit of it?

and about pharmacy, well, i don't really like bio, and learning about DNA and stuff. well, not at first. i tend to slowly enjoy learning my subjects. it only has very little math in it which i think i'm okay about. i like the idea of working for an industrial company tho. not stuck in the office thinking about numbers for the rest of my life. plus, it's so much faster to become a professional when i take up pharmacy.

my main worry is: which job is more interesting, pharmacy or actuarial science?

i just feel so scared deciding what i'm going to do and become in the future.

If you can't do well in further maths, don't think of actuarial studies.

The more interesting job is the job that you are interested in. That's how we define 'interesting', isn't it?

Do the thing you are interested in.
And check up the Maths involved in Actuarial Science. Check up the other subjects you need to master in getting a degree in Actuarial Science.
Actuarial Science is not Maths, Maths is just PART of Actuarial Science. You can't survive with only Maths.

Perhaps, neither of these?

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Added on December 10, 2009, 8:05 pmThat is not so true. Some of the Further Maths topics are not that related to Actuarial Science. TS might be strong in Maths that are applicable in AS.
Anyway, it's TS responsibility to find out what Maths involved in AS to know if it's his/her cup of tea.

This post has been edited by tanjinjack: Dec 10 2009, 08:05 PM

There... you see that bolded part?

That is what your heart tells you... Do actuarial science if have no passion for biology or biology related subjects. Pharmacy requires you to learn and know human physiology, biochemistry, drug formulation, drug interactions etc.

Don't go into pharmacy if you are just going to quit half-way and do something else~

Do Actuarial science~

thanks peeps.

i'm gonna think about it more now. thanks so much for your help =)
totally appreciate it!!!!

U have a strong interest in maths n u dun like bio: u had the answer - do actuarial sciences

If I am not mistaken, graduates fr actuarial sciences r often high demand bcos of their analytical abilities. Esp in the insurance industry

Do Actuarial science... since you don't like biology...

They are both very different fields. I was in the same position... ultimately I chose pharmacy.

One is science. The other is business-analytical.

Where do you see yourself in?

Pharmacy is not all about Bio. If you don't like the DNA part, it's alright. You don't have to go into research. Just study to pass the exam would be suffice. Going into the industry would be good and you can also opt to practice by going into hospital or community. The options are wide. In fact, pharmacy has the widest options in the science field. But I warn you, there's a lot of chemistry and non-DNA bio involved (ie: human body systems). Basically a lot of reading and studying.

However if you're not a science-loving person, pharmacy can get a bit redundant, routine and boring after a while.


Actuarial science on the other hand is in the stats-maths sector. If you really do have the flair, then go for it. You can choose to do a basic degree, or move on to do your 8 levels of paper later. You can work in almost any banking/finance/investment company out there.

I think actuarial science is more challenging than pharmacy if you're a maths person. As for me, my interest lies with drug design so pharmacy is the right course for me. I like stats too but I don't see myself doing that as a career.


Depends on you really. Can't quite compare the two. It's like comparing between apple and orange.

This post has been edited by baoz: Dec 10 2009, 10:02 PM

I must make the statement that, please consider other options as well.
If you have certain commands on Physics, I may suggest Chemical Engineering for your interest of Chemistry as well as Maths.

But like I say, if you want to consider Actuarial Science, look into the Maths content.
Do a search of "The Truth About Actuarial Science" in this forum and read the first post.
You might regret if you choose not to do read that and decide on AS.

most ppl tend to relate chemistry & chemical engineering, in fact both are not really much related. Chemical engineering is more to analysis process system...more involving calculations. One doesn't require a strong foundation in chemistry to do chemical engineering. In fact, there are only 3-4 subjects related to chemistry in my whole 4 yrs chemical engineering course...

Except for the mechanics parts, the rest of the A-Levels further maths syllabus coves part the basic maths you'll need to do actuarial maths. But seriously, if one can't grasp the mechanics part easily, he will have a hard time with whatever maths, more-so since the mechanics part is applied rather than theoretical. Maths may not determine whether you become a successful actuary or not, but to even get past the first few papers you will need to have superb maths. Without the maths, the rest doesn't matter.

And as tanjinjack suggested do look up on the many threads about AS here. Also do buy at least 1 complete calculus book and one probability book. Those will cover the foundation of actuarial math. If you find it hard, don't do AS.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Dec 11 2009, 08:14 AM

I'm facing the same dilemma, only difference is that I just finished my SPM. Went to Taylor's and Sunway to inquire bout both fields, going to Taylor's Open Day today to get a better idea. IINM there's a talk bout pharmacy, this afternoon. Heading there?

Where do I get a peek at those books? Generic bookstores? Which section?

MPH, Borders and Kino all carry those books. It would be under the math and science section. Just ask the counter.

I agree with Baoz!
Pharmacy is mostly about chemistry. I am just like you, very interested to know more about the drugs design and would like to have more patient interactions future fields. But prior to my bad luck, i was granted biochemistry instead! HAiz!

Just one question here: is it possible for me to switch to Pharmacy after my biochem degree? Which then can allow me to hop into the typical works of dispensing medicines and deal more with patients?

I know pharmacy may sound boring to those who love sciences just because they can't feel the challenge of embarking to it, the typical and monotonous jobs of dispensing , dispensing and couselling. how would you deal with it since you are the soon to be pharmacist?

pharmacists' main job is to dispense. They do heaps of other things too like ordering supplies and etc (sorry I can't remember what my sis told me, but I know there's more than dispensing only). They can't feel the challenge of embarking to it? um~ I don't quite get what this sentence means. But if its referring to the notation that it is less challenging, then you're so wrong xD I'm not sure bout the point of switching from BSc to BPharm, you'll probably have to take MPharm or graduate entry BPharm (like in Murdoch, WA).

TS, the answer lies in your heart, which one do you prefer more, and whom you picture yourself in 10-20 years time. IMHO, I'll make my own summary regarding this. For Chem+Bio interest, go for Pharm. For Math+commerce interest, go for AS. As other ppl said, try engineering if you don't mind physics. I don't know much about AS, but I do know there're heaps of exams to go through. and it's definitely challenging (all courses are challenging =D) ^^ all the best. Tell us when you come up with a final decision =D jia you.

I also must point out that, by becoming an actuary, your likely working environment will be in an office, and you will be facing probably Excel or other spreadsheet software in doing your job.
Yes, you need to be with friends with Excel. Don't worry though, you have lots of time to enjoy with it in your undergraduate studies shall you to pick it up.

Everybody consults a pharmacist at some time or other but not everybody deals with an actuary.

Actuaries are employed mainly by the insurance companies and I was told only the big ones employ actuaries and even then one company only employ one actuary. How many actuaries can the market absorb?

Excuse me if I'm being ignorant but I have been wondering whether they are enough job openings for actuaries with the growing trend among young people taking up the course. Of course many are attracted to it when they hear about the lucrative salaries.

One thing to bear in mind, you can have your own business if your are a pharmacist but not if you are an actuary. The job market seems very limited, doesn't it?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Dec 11 2009, 12:59 PM

I recall you asking this question before... And I've done a bit of looking-up on it. So far I've found one uni in Australia that allows you to do a Master in Pharmacy from a non-pharmacy degree so that you can register as a pharmacist.

CLICK HERE FOR THE LINK (look under the "Target Group" section)


Look around other unis more. I'm sure there'll be a postgrad course out there that allows you to expand from your B.Biochem.


I haven't done any community pharmacy work (couldn't find a part time job...) but I have yet to find out whether it will be boring. I mean, there are all sorts of people walking into your pharmacy. Some cases may be interesting. And I do enjoy counseling people a lot.

Otherwise I could go into so many other things like industry, management, lecturing and research. My biggest dream is to make it to GlaxoSmithKline's research team but I'm gonna have to network a lot to get into a company like that.

This post has been edited by baoz: Dec 11 2009, 01:11 PM

There is a large group of AS graduates get absorbed into other industries, which is may or may not be related to risk analysis.
AS graduates are highly sought after due to their excellent mathematical skills, which is very important for sectors like finance, banking etc.
Take a look at the graduates in UK, not a lot get into insurance companies but still a lot get employed.

And, risk analysis doesn't constrain themselves into insurance industry only. More and more companies are seeking a way to reduce the risk they may have in their projects and hence more and more risk analyst will be required.

Mind you, take a look at the insurance industry in US, and you will know why the Northern American magazines usually rank actuary being among the best jobs.

Not sure but if the units are right , you can get into Mpharm in UWA too with BSc.
http://www.biomedchem.uwa.edu.au/courses/p...ork/mpharm#admi

only if you took the right units. =)

tanjinjack
You are talking about job opportunities for AS overseas in advanced countries like US and UK. What is true overseas may not be true in the local context. Unless you don't plan to be based in Malaysia.

My question is: is there the same good demand for AS in Malaysia as the advanced countries? Which other industries like you said employ AS other the insurance industry? I suppose you have to hear this from people in that line.

Well, before the economic recession, A LOT of AS graduates of Malaysia in overseas get absorbed at there, especially for the case of US. But the unemployment issue being at its peak in US, I doubt if there will be some who can secure a job there.

In Malaysia itself, I would think that AS graduates don't work in insurance companies. Some of them join forces in banking and finance.
I don't know, but the ASM (Actuarial Society of Malaysia) claims that we lack actuaries in Malaysia now.

Normally only those who have passed all the actuarial papers are called an actuary. Those people earn hundreds of thousands a month and typically become C?O ie chief something officer. However companies have a whole financial team and employ many people who have just passed a few actuarial papers. They are called acturial trainees, clerks, etc. A friend of mine was employed by Great Eastern right after graduation to be an actuarial trainee. Job is to do calculations (using special programs of course, not like in college) and various paperwork. No not excel or spreadsheets, you don't use that stuff. More to special actuarial programs, stats programs then reporting using word and powerpoint. She says her job is relatively easy and relaxed. Starting pay was 3000 pounds. And there were more than 20 actuary trainees working with her.

if u really wanna do statistics and maths for the rest of ur working life, and ure prepared to take at least 3 external papers, then go ahead,
pharmaceuticals, if ure goin overseas, ull earn a blardy lot.. my friend's sister, work in aus, as lab assistant also rm10k per month, come back mas, 2k one month, 3 months beh tahan go back aussie work. LOL

ARe u sure about the salary range as a lab assistant in aussie? Wow, if it is true, it is really high and rewarding!

But the main problems are the job prospects in the pharmaceutical companies. would it be more pharm companies in ausie? and what are those people working for that companies? Mostly pharmacy degree holder?

Well, in malaysia, u can't expect things like 'pharm company booming around' situation la. Thus, the pay to work as a lab assistent is very low, even worst still, the pay is lower than a teacher's pay.

hey guys
im from malaysia ..migrated to aus in 2005..

just wanna let u guys know that pharmacists earn around 60k when first graduating..although not alot, but if u convert it to malaysian ringgit..it's quite alot. (approx RM180k)..thats around RM15k a month

Actuarists earn alot more in a long run (up to AUD 200k if ure a senior)..thats RM600k..around RM50k a month ..but u start off around AUD 60-70k a year as a graduate.

The employment rate for actuarist and pharmacists here are very close..pharmacist being 99.4% employment right after graduating..and actuarist, virtually 100% employment

however, from what i've heard, it's very difficult to pass actuarial studies in university. thus, if u pass, u'll definitely get a job..most of the time, employers grab you even before you finish uni.
It's mainly an office job = ie no people interaction (which might become boring after a while)..I know some1 who dropped it because it was way too boring.

I've got an offer from ANU to do actuarial studies and another offer+scholarship from monash to do pharmacy/commerce...and right now i'm leaning towards pharmacy/com mainly because i can't stand sitting in an office all my life despite having a good pay.

There are pros and cons for both..hope this helps =]

Awwwww... why did you let down ANU..... T.T

hehe. I am in the same situation as you did.
Monash => Commerce/Economics
ANU => Actuarial Studies

But I chose another one.