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> WTA water pump/booster, for single bathroom Renovations

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Hwoarang45
post Jan 13 2017, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jan 12 2017, 12:27 AM)
You can install a daily water storage tank sized to your requirement.. 
No.. Water will still flow across a water pump's impeller..
*
u mean instead of main , connect my source to my tank? but wont that have weaker pressure? my water heater built in pump like not very powerful, i saw lazada there are those cheap mini pump like this, will install this before the shower head boost pressure or any other suggestion for it like cheap single unit pump? any model or brand recommendation?

http://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-...ch-2553883.htmlhttp://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-5lmin-diaphragm-high-pressure-water-pumpautomatic-switch-2553883.html
Richard
post Jan 13 2017, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(Hwoarang45 @ Jan 13 2017, 06:17 PM)
u mean instead of main , connect my source to my tank? but wont that have weaker pressure? my water heater built in pump like not very powerful, i saw lazada there are those cheap mini pump like this, will install this before the shower head boost pressure or any other suggestion for it like cheap single unit pump? any model or brand recommendation?

http://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-...ch-2553883.htmlhttp://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-5lmin-diaphragm-high-pressure-water-pumpautomatic-switch-2553883.html
*
In rural households where the rain water run off from roof to storage water tank.. Any supply pipe from storage tank to shower head with a 24" water level difference will have adequate pressure..

That said if you are getting water into a storage tank above your head, you will have a good water pressure just attaching a water hose to the base of that water tank..

The problem with pump installers these days is they do not test the water flow into the pump as a standard water pump cannot suction up water.. It must be primed..

You can look at any pictures of water pump and promises of plumbers but the simple fact remains if your pump is above your water level you will have problems ..

I have argued with water engineers wrt their pumps NSPH (Net suction pressure head) and pump curves ..as pump design where the water pump inlet is above the water supply (unless you are installing a well pump)
develops problems..

Choose any reputable brand pump or gravity feed run with standard water pipe sizing to qty of fittings, you will have a good pressure..







echoesian
post Jan 13 2017, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jan 12 2017, 12:27 AM)
You can install a daily water storage tank sized to your requirement.. 
No.. Water will still flow across a water pump's impeller..
*
That's strange, I have just installed water meter, and it flows into my water tank, but it cannot flow down to all my washrooms.....
Richard
post Jan 14 2017, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(echoesian @ Jan 13 2017, 11:48 PM)
That's strange, I have just installed water meter, and it flows into my water tank, but it cannot flow down to all my washrooms.....
*
Yes it is strange..

There is a flow rate problem between your water tank to the wash rooms?

How have you installed the water pipes and valves?

Edit * water free flow across a pumps impeller does not take into account any check valve if its a combination pump c/w pipe accessories..
there might be a non return or strainer built in the pump unit..

This post has been edited by Richard: Jan 14 2017, 02:14 AM
Hwoarang45
post Jan 14 2017, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jan 13 2017, 11:01 PM)
In rural households where the rain water run off from roof to storage water tank.. Any supply pipe from storage tank to shower head with a 24" water level difference will have adequate pressure..

That said if you are getting water into a storage tank above your head, you will have a good water pressure just attaching a water hose to the base of that water tank..

The problem with pump installers these days is they do not test the water flow into the pump as a standard water pump cannot suction up water.. It must be primed..

You can look at any pictures of water pump and promises of plumbers but the simple fact remains if your pump is above your water level you will have problems ..

I have argued with water engineers wrt their pumps NSPH (Net suction pressure head) and pump curves ..as pump design where the water pump  inlet is above the water supply (unless you are installing a well pump)
develops problems..

Choose any reputable brand pump or gravity feed run with standard water pipe sizing to qty of fittings, you will have a good pressure..
*
whau thanks i have no clue half of what u said , u really are pro, haha i think i consult a proper plumber for this tell him what u said see if it makes sense to him , problem is my area is consider small town most plumber here are not very educated nor professional i think sweat.gif

my storage tank feed water directly from main source not from rain, and is right above the ceiling in my bathroom, the height from my tank to the bathroom floor is around 4 meter, from thank to water heater height is half i think , now my heater is running on the pipe from the main source also from the ceiling beside the water tank diverting downwards to the water heater. The height of the routing pipe to heater is just slighty lower than the heater say 5-6 inches.

does this mean my heater is install to high from the pipe? sweat.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

ill try take some photo and explain haha thanks for helping bro...

This post has been edited by Hwoarang45: Jan 14 2017, 12:03 PM
Richard
post Jan 14 2017, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(Hwoarang45 @ Jan 14 2017, 11:59 AM)
whau thanks i have no clue half of what u said , u really are pro, haha i think i consult a proper plumber for this tell him what u said see if it makes sense to him , problem is my area is consider small town most plumber here are not very educated nor professional i think  sweat.gif

my storage tank feed water directly from main source not from rain, and is right above the ceiling in my bathroom, the height from my tank to the bathroom floor is around 4 meter, from thank to water heater height is half i think , now my heater is running on the pipe from the main source also from the ceiling beside the water tank diverting downwards to the water heater. The height of the routing pipe to heater is just slighty lower than the heater say 5-6 inches.

does this mean my heater is install to high from the pipe? sweat.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif

ill try take some photo and explain haha thanks for helping bro...
*
Not really.. I work in the construction industry for a consultant so its just shop talk.. its the principle of operation of how the whole system works that's important..

for a hot water system, the standard design is for a close loop recirculation piping..a pump can be installed on the return line for pressure boost..

the hot water system supplier would provide specifics..

For your case if the piping is run high level feeding downwards (to prevent air traps) and your pump installed below the tank outlet water line it should be ok,

but you need a plumber to actually site visit if there is a problem..

In this forum we can only guess due to the lack of info and the complexity of some of the newer valve fittings.. Hope that helps you..

This post has been edited by Richard: Jan 14 2017, 01:13 PM
qwerty223
post Jan 14 2017, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(Hwoarang45 @ Jan 13 2017, 06:17 PM)
u mean instead of main , connect my source to my tank? but wont that have weaker pressure? my water heater built in pump like not very powerful, i saw lazada there are those cheap mini pump like this, will install this before the shower head boost pressure or any other suggestion for it like cheap single unit pump? any model or brand recommendation?

http://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-...ch-2553883.htmlhttp://www.lazada.com.my/cyber-dc-12v-60w-5lmin-diaphragm-high-pressure-water-pumpautomatic-switch-2553883.html
*
Not always weaker. Depends how much water it holds.

But your problem cannot solve without a tank. Even you install an inline pump before your heater, it will suck dry the water in your pipe section up until it turns downward. You will have pressure for awhile then your pump starts to run on dry.

In anyways, you need a tank before your heater so your pump has water to pull from. mains>tank>pump>heater.
Hwoarang45
post Jan 16 2017, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jan 14 2017, 01:09 PM)
Not really.. I work in the construction industry for a consultant so its just shop talk.. its the principle of operation of how the whole system works that's important..

for a hot water system, the standard design is for a close loop recirculation piping..a pump can be installed on the return line for pressure boost..

the hot water system supplier would provide specifics..

For your case if the piping is run high level feeding downwards (to prevent air traps)  and your pump installed below the tank outlet water line it should be ok,

but you need a plumber to actually site visit if there is a problem..

In this forum we can only guess due to the lack of info and the complexity of some of the newer valve fittings..  Hope that helps you..
*
ahh i see, thanks for the details explaination i think i start to understand now..

QUOTE(qwerty223 @ Jan 14 2017, 11:57 PM)
Not always weaker. Depends how much water it holds.

But your problem cannot solve without a tank. Even you install an inline pump before your heater, it will suck dry the water in your pipe section up until it turns downward. You will have pressure for awhile then your pump starts to run on dry.

In anyways, you need a tank before your heater so your pump has water to pull from. mains>tank>pump>heater.
*
oh thanks now it makes perfect sense now... thanks for the simple explanation for the next step i think the best thing is switch my water source of my heater/shower to my tank instead of using main first then test if weak install a pump, right?

what i like to know is will installing another pump before the water heater with pump built in will effect the unit ? or i should turn off the built in pump ? or need to change a normal heater ...
qwerty223
post Jan 16 2017, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(Hwoarang45 @ Jan 16 2017, 11:39 AM)
ahh i see, thanks for the details explaination i think i start to understand now..
oh thanks now it makes perfect sense now... thanks for the simple explanation for the next step i think the best thing is switch my water source of my heater/shower to my tank instead of using main  first then test if weak install a pump, right?

what i like to know is will installing another pump before the water heater with pump built in will effect the unit ? or i should turn off the built in pump ? or need to change a  normal heater ...
*
I have heard many engineers (not salesman/technician) said OK with their version of theory. But as an engineer myself I am not convinced.
Richard
post Jan 17 2017, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(Hwoarang45 @ Jan 14 2017, 11:59 AM)

my storage tank feed water directly from main source above the ceiling in my bathroom, the height from my tank to water heater height is 2m , my heater is running from the main source also from the ceiling beside the water tank diverting downwards to the water heater.

*
I edited for clarity ..

Your water tank piping outlet and the mains pipe is connected? could be a short circuit (backflow) problem..

Just make sure the mains pipe connection gate valve is closed.. otherwise your tank water drain into the mains line (during low mains pressure)..

or you don't have a faulty or leaking valve/seal ..

The simplest solution is just remove the mains connection to the heater and just use the water tank water and see if it solves your low pressure problem..

You will need to individual flow test for both the water tank and mains pipe to make sure there is no blockage..

watabakiu
post Jul 1 2017, 09:24 PM

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There are water heaters that comes with Booster pump (can't remember the exact term). Would this be sufficient to increase the water pressure for my main bathroom?
watabakiu
post Jul 11 2017, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(watabakiu @ Jul 1 2017, 09:24 PM)
There are water heaters that comes with Booster pump (can't remember the exact term). Would this be sufficient to increase the water pressure for my main bathroom?
*
Any thought?
Richard
post Jul 11 2017, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(watabakiu @ Jul 11 2017, 09:28 PM)
Any thought?
*
for a single instantaneous water heater with built-in pump connected to a single water outlet (provided you have water in the pipe)..

Yes..
watabakiu
post Jul 15 2017, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(watabakiu @ Jul 1 2017, 09:24 PM)
There are water heaters that comes with Booster pump (can't remember the exact term). Would this be sufficient to increase the water pressure for my main bathroom?
*
QUOTE(Richard @ Jul 11 2017, 11:06 PM)
for a single instantaneous water heater with built-in pump connected to a single water outlet (provided you have water in the pipe)..

Yes..
*
Not sure what my water connection is like to my main bathroom, but I think I shall go ahead and get it. Currently my water pressure is so selow!

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