Ive read all the posts so allow me to share my 2 cents worth (which could be a long read).

I am a Toyota Vios 2003 model owner. I have family members who own Kia's and Honda's so i think ill be able to provide you with a general overview of the different brands. But its a personal view but based on my experience driving and servicing these cars.

But i do not think i will leave Toyota because of of these reasons:

1) build quality
2) low maintenance
3) high resale value
4) good after sales service

In my almost 7 years of driving a Vios, the car has not given me any problems despite its age. I was very particular when i bought the car. After a bad experience with Proton (as most of us have probably had) i didnt want to repeat the same mistakes. I test drove the Vios 7 times in different locations from JB to Penang to experience different driving conditions before i settled for it and i have not regretted since.

There isnt a single squeak or rattle in the car even on very uneven roads. The car has done about 125,000 km to date and the engine is still going strong with good pick up and excellent fuel economy. I can easily drive from KL to Penang and back on 1 full tank (120kmph). I have not changed any major parts except the usual wear and tear. I havent done any modifications on the car as well and everything is original.

I have no reason to service my car outside as Toyota provides excellent service standards. Ive serviced my car in JB, KL and Penang and all provide exemplary & affordable service. They have gone out of their way to provide me with good service plus even changed wipers, brake pads and washed the car for free when i had to wait long for my car to be ready on occasions. All this done in the name of customer satisfaction. Even when my seat belt started giving me trouble last year, they replaced it FOC for me since they said this part shouldnt give any trouble in the 1st place. That was the only problem i faced with my Vios in 7 years. The aircon is still good and cold. The brakes are good and very effective as well.

Ive asked around at dealers for the resale value of my car since im looking to upgrade and ive been told its in the region of RM 48K which is a drop of only 27K from the sale price of RM 74,700. Thats only a 36% drop in resale value over 7 years.


Kia

My family members who drive Kia's (CBU models) all say the same thing: NEVER AGAIN. All that crap about CBU being better than CKD is really just crap and over generalisation. Just go over to any Kia service centre and see just how many new Kia's are in there for major problems and defects. 2 weeks back when i was at a Kia SC in KL, i saw a 2yr old Kia Sorento coming in for a engine overhaul. Ive also seen 3 yr old Kia Picanto's having the gearbox changed. The Kia SA told me that Kia's have problematic gearboxes. You need to change the ATF every 20K just to prolong the lifespan of the gearbox. We all know about the older Kia models like the Spectra and Rio having major issues. I was also told by another SA that Kia's have problems with the master brake pump and can cause loss of braking power due to prolonged use in traffic jams.

Plus dont bother about selling your car. Ure better off giving it away free. A 7 yr resale value for most Kia models will probably drop 70%. Yes Kia sells cars cheap but do you know why? Cuz they know they will get back their 'losses' using high service maintenance costs. I have serviced a Kia Picanto 1.1CC for RM 700 which was a minor service with only a ATF change as a major component. My Vios also costs RM 700 but for a major service with a full aircon service. Normal services rarely go beyond RM 250.

Honda

Read the numerous online posts about Honda and ull see just how many quality issues have come up even with the new Honda City and Civic. But i do agree that no car is spared from defects and small ones will always exist. But the worst thing about Honda is their after sales service. Step into any Honda SC and ull immediately feel the difference if uve been a Toyota customer. Honda may be better than Kia and Proton in the after sales service section, but they are years behind Toyota. There are numerous news reports about Honda owners complaining about their service standards. Other than that i think Honda's are good cars too.

Summary

Buying a car is NOT merely about specs and physical looks. Its also about quality, maintenance costs and after sales service standards. You may get better specs in the Forte but no way will you get the service standards and quality that Toyota (or even Honda) has. There's alot of hype about the Forte currently but i bet you all those getting excited about it are NOT current Kia owners. There was alot of hype when the Spectra came out but what has happened to all that hype and excitement now? Most ppl wont even go near a Kia Spectra now. I have yet to meet a Kia owner who has said he/she will buy a Kia again. Most Kia owners are stuck with their cars because of the low resale value. Do you want to join this group?

If you want to compare engine power dont compare the CC only. It doesnt mean that a 1.6L car is more powerful than a 1.5L. You have to look at the horsepower and compare it to the weight of the car. A Honda City IDSI 1.5L is about 1100kg and has 88 HP. But a Vios 1.5E (03 model) is only 942kg and has 109HP. So which is more powerful? A Nissan Sentra 1.6L is about 1180kg and has about 110hp. How can that be more powerful compared to a Vios for instance?? You need to look at the power to weight ratios and also the torque to decide which is more powerful. So please dont say that a 1.6L Forte is more powerful than any 1.5L car cuz it may not be the case.

Yes the Forte is a good value buy for the specs it has. Plus the physical outlook is great too for that price. But should you buy one be prepared to pay through your nose for the maintenance once the free service is up. Also be prepared for some major expense after about 3 years e.g gearbox, engine overhaul, brake system, etc. Buying a car is a long term (loss) but the idea is to limit your losses. I agree that Toyota's and Honda's are overpriced and its good to have some competition from other manufacturers but i think Kia and Hyundai have a long way to go before reaching the standards Toyota has set.

My views above are mostly my own based on my own experience plus some input from Kia's service personnel. Most ppl will bash and praise certain cars based on what other ppl say. But i would trust the views of those who have actually driven and maintained all the makes in discussion. I have and hence my contribution today.

For those who want some extra info, feel free to check out the International Vehicle Dependability Survey by JD Power 2009 which lists the number of problems per 100 vehicles. This official survey is based on owner reported problems based on the engine, transmission, brakes, vibrations, wind noise, water leaks, interior finish, paint quality and accessories. Toyota is ranked at No 4 while popular makes like BMW and Mercedes are Ranked No 17 and 20 respectively. Kia is somewhere at the bottom i think.

J.D. Power and Associates: 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study

Problems per 100 vehicles

Jaguar 122
Lexus 126
Toyota 129
Honda 148
Porsche 150
Audi 159
Ford 159
Hyundai 161
Subaru 162
BMW 166
Industry Average 170
Mercedes-Benz 184
Chevrolet 185
Mitsubishi 185
Volvo 186
Nissan 199
MINI 205
Kia 218
Mazda 227
Volkswagen 260
Suzuki 263

But at the end of the day, choose a car you really like and dont regret after that. Do your own research even if it takes months. The Forte is a newcomer. My advise for any new models would be to wait at least 6 months before purchasing. That will give you enough time to read reviews and comments about the cars.

Cheers!

U know what i think? I think u DO NOT own a Toyota. I think ure a Kia salesman or somebody promoting that. Nobody who owns a Toyota will say the things u say.

Just on the point of after sales service itself i can catch you not telling the truth. Most Toyota service centres have the Early Bird Service. This allows u to leave your car the night before and it will be be the first in for service the next morning. When that happens, usually your car will be read within just a few hours unless its a major service with ATF change, fuel system flushing and aircon service which will take the whole day. Tell me where you service your car and i will check your facts. I have serviced my car in JB, KL, Puchong, Melaka, Ipoh and Penang and i have had the same good service in all these service centres.

I think its also stupid to compare authorised service centre's costs against an outside workshop. Its common knowledge that its always cheaper outside cuz they only do what u tell them to do and nothing else. So please dont make these comparisons. Im talking about ALL official car manufacturers service centres.

Interior space??? What are you comparing against? A Camry?? Again dont make silly comparisions. Vios is an entry level sedan targetted at single adults or very small families. If u want more space then go for an Altis or Camry. The rear legroom in a Vios is similar to the legroom in a Mazda 3 2.0L so does that make the Mazda 3 crap?

Build quality? Again this is why i say i know you do not own a Toyota. Or u might have thrashed your Toyota so badly that it wears a lot faster. Tell me your car number plate and where u service your Toyota and i will check and find out if you really have such problems. U can always PM me in private.

Unless you can do this and prove yourself, i suggest you keep your non-constructive comments to yourself. This forum is for ppl to share constructive critisms about cars or whatever. Nobody said Vios is a perfect car and nobody said the Forte is crap. I suggest you read ALL the posts carefully before commenting. Leave all your salesman tactics at home. It doesnt benefit anybody.

Have a nice day.

U really think City and Vios is gonna go down the drain just cuz of the Forte? So it means after they launch the Mazda2 it will become much worse for City and Vios? Common my friend. Have u been monitoring market statistics and sentiments?

When the Mazda 3 2.0L was launched last year, everybody said the same thing. Civic and Altis gonna go down the drain. In the end what happened? How many Mazda 3's are there on the street now? I think since its launch ive only seen about 10 during my daily commute. The Civic and Altis are still front runners in the 1.8 - 2.0CC section. The Altis sales has almost caught up with the Civic based on last years statistics.

The only way Toyota or Honda's sales can come down is when a MAJORITY of car buyers whift the focus to other makes. As long as u have only a handful saying this and that, nothing will change. If the Korean cars want to compete with the Japs they need to do the following:

1) Improve their after sales service standards
2) Reduce the cost of maintenance

Unless they do this, they will never be able to compete with the Japanese makes no matter how many specs they throw into their models. The success of Toyota and Honda is not merely due to the price and specs as some of us think. Car sales are also determined by the after sales service standards and cost of maintenance. I think these 2 factors actually outweigh the other factors.

Many of the ppl here who sing praises of the Forte wont buy one even if they had the money. When the Forte was launched, many ppl flooded the showroom. How many of those actually translated into actual sales? Dont believe all that salesman talk about it being overbooked bla bla bla. They said the same thing about the Mazda 3 and now the showrooms are empty.

Just look at the official Malaysian vehicle sale figures for 2009. Mazda 3 is not even in the top 50 and its nothing to do with the late launch of the model cuz even the China made Chery Eastar is ranked 38 in the list. The Vios and City sold a combined total of 49,109 vehicles for 2009. The Vios was the highest selling non national make with 29,387 units while the City sold 19,722 units for the same period. The Vios sells about 2,800 units every month while the City sells about 1,400 monthly.

So based on these statistics, do you seriously think the Vios and the City is gonna go down the drain just cuz of the Forte? Surely not. Im not a Toyota salesman or anything. I too want some serious competition for the Japs but i dont see it happening as long as the Koreans only focus their attention on specs and cheaper cars. Toyota and Honda are really milking us Malaysians with their high prices and they will continue to do so unless the Koreans can change their tactics. I think so far they are doing well but they need to tackle the after sale service standards and maintenance costs. These are really killing the Korean brands.

How can u possibly have any regrets after buying a brand new car? I dont think anybody will have regrets when uve only used a car for a couple of months. The question here is WILL YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS AFTER A FEW YEARS?

Your comparisons is all based on PHYSICAL LOOKS. Only ladies focus on such things while forgetting other more important issues.

And im still convinced that you do not own a Toyota. Since when does Toyota NOT service cars on Saturdays? Some centres even open on Sundays to clear backlogged cars. Why do u need to take leave to BOOK a service? It can be done easily by a phone call. Ive been servicing my Toyota regularly for the past 7 yrs and i work a 6 day week in KL and i have NEVER had any problems sending my car for service. I have NEVER taken leave to do a service. Toyota can even collect your car for service if u live within a specified range. Plus they have the early bird service.

On 1 occasion i was late coming back after an overseas business trip last year and instead of collecting my car at 6pm, i only made it at 11pm. The service centre in Jalan 222, PJ stayed open just to hand over the car to me since i told them i need my car for an urgent meeting the next morning. The Service Advisor went out of his way just to get this done. I dont know him personally and he isnt my friend. Just 1 of many Toyota personnel doing their job. U tell me whether u can get this level of service from any Korean manufacturer. I can understand if BMW or Mercedes does this since they cater for an upmarket category but here we have Toyota doing this.

Since when do u speak to the technicians when u send your car for service?? The person u talk to is the Service Advisor. The technicians are at the back and they are the ones who advise the SA on the problems and methods of rectifications. The Service Advisor most of the time do not have as much knowledge as the technicians at the back. So who did u really talk to my friend?

Your facts about Toyota really does not make sense which is why i doubt that u really own a Toyota. I have asked u to provide me with your car number plate but you havent. Im not gonna stalk you or anything. Also give me the name of the service centre you service your car at. I can easily check whether what you say about Toyota service problems is actually true. I still think ure just another car salesman trying to promote the Forte. Toyota & Honda do not need to do this. Their cars speak for themselves.

Go check out the discussion in Paul Tan.

http://paultan.org/2010/02/27/kia-forte-1-...#comment-306784

Please check my FIRST post and you can answer the question yourself. I am experienced enough to know how to compare.

Yes well said. Even though im a fan of Toyota but currently if i have to choose to upgrade to a 1.8 or 2.0cc car i would surely choose the Civic for its features and style. Which is why im holding on my upgrade till Toyota comes out with something better than the current Altis. I dont mind waiting as my Vios is not giving me any trouble at all.

(p/s Last nite i drove from Ipoh to KL in 1hr and 15mins. Nice, smooth drive in the Vios clocking between 140-180kmph although not a safe act for sure).

Are u reading what i typed? Im talking about TIME FRAMES within a few months. Will u get a new model within a few weeks or months? What im saying is your Forte is new. Maybe only a couple of months. How can u possibly have any regrets buying the Forte after only a few months?? Thats the only thing im saying.

Ure a freshie and just started working and ure buying a Civic 2.0L???? How many % of your salary are u gonna use to pay your installments la? When i bought my Vios in 2003, i was paying 22% of my salary for the installments. Now even though my salary is 3X, im still paying the same installment. Haha!