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> Freehold VS Leasehold, Gain VS Loss?

TarePanda
post Nov 23 2009, 04:57 PM, updated 8y ago
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As title stated,

My friend going to buy a leasehold property in Puchong and budget is >RM 380k.

What my friend said about leasehold:

1.) Cheaper and up to his budget/installment
2.) Leasehold up to 99 years...definitely sufficient

What I said abt leasehold:

1.) Value will drop >10%~20% (min) after 20 years
2.) The leasehold property was bought by some investor seeking for instant money...value is inflated at least Rm 50k

My thought:

1.) Why not scratch the installment period longer and opt for freehold property?

Problem is:

The interest definitely become heavier but at the same time will the freehold property off set against the impairment of the leasehold land?


Really need need advice from property guru...please advice
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leongal
post Nov 23 2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE(TarePanda @ Nov 23 2009, 04:57 PM)

1.) Cheaper and up to his budget/installment


As you have mentioned above, therefore, it really depends on budget - people generally look at the current situation rather for the long term

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hanif444
post Nov 23 2009, 10:11 PM
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if ur friend cant afford/pay installament tmr, what can he/she see in future paper gain on freehold?
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marcohoo
post Nov 23 2009, 10:55 PM
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leasehold in malaysia still din see much influences due Malaysia independent 50+ years onli..

financial point of view.

lease hold less than 70 yrs..
Margin Of Finance 70% onli

50yrs
MOF 60%

30yrs
hard to get bank's finance reason being unable to seel out if being auction.

Advice :

if plan to invest sell off in 20yrs time ...
else for own occupation
definitely not suitable for long term investment..


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edyek
post Dec 1 2009, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE(TarePanda @ Nov 23 2009, 04:57 PM)
As title stated,

My friend going to buy a leasehold property in Puchong and budget is >RM 380k.

What my friend said about leasehold:

1.) Cheaper and up to his budget/installment
2.) Leasehold up to 99 years...definitely sufficient

What I said abt leasehold:

1.) Value will drop >10%~20% (min) after 20 years
2.) The leasehold property was bought by some investor seeking for instant money...value is inflated at least Rm 50k

My thought:

1.) Why not scratch the installment period longer and opt for freehold property?
   
      Problem is:

      The interest definitely become heavier but at the same time will the freehold property off set against the impairment of the leasehold land?
Really need need advice from property guru...please advice
*
In my state Sarawak, there is no more freehold land/property in Sarawak. So the value for the land/property does not drop 10% or 20% after 20 years but increase. Normally Local government will renew expired title. So this matter does not really concerns Sarawakian nor Sabahan.
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cic.lemur
post Dec 1 2009, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE(edyek @ Dec 1 2009, 02:02 PM)
In my state Sarawak, there is no more freehold land/property in Sarawak. So the value for the land/property does not drop 10% or 20% after 20 years but increase. Normally Local government will renew expired title. So this matter does not really concerns Sarawakian nor Sabahan.
*
Wow, that's a bit extreme. There should be no problem rural areas being freehold, but imo areas near urban should only be leasehold, otherwise there will be unsightly buildings here and there, like in Brickfields area.
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dannywcw
post Dec 1 2009, 03:35 PM
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whats going to happened after 99 years? owner take back land or burn?
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edyek
post Dec 1 2009, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(cic.lemur @ Dec 1 2009, 03:32 PM)
Wow, that's a bit extreme. There should be no problem rural areas being freehold, but imo areas near urban should only be leasehold, otherwise there will be unsightly buildings here and there, like in Brickfields area.
*
Haha. That is what happens to Sarawak. And the People of Sarawak are voicing out their dissatisfaction over this matter.



QUOTE(dannywcw @ Dec 1 2009, 03:35 PM)
whats going to happened after 99 years? owner take back land or burn?
*
After 99 years, the lease will expired. All you have to do is take your land title and go to Land & Survey department to renew your title by paying a premium. If your land is a bit rural area, and it happens that the government wants to take the land and turn into something for their own use, they will not renew your title or they will opt to buy back your land according to their value.

This is the bad side of leasehold.

This post has been edited by edyek: Dec 1 2009, 05:27 PM
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cheahcw2003
post Dec 1 2009, 05:36 PM
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if given a choice, freehold is better than leasehold. But freehold property is getting lesser nowadays.
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edyek
post Dec 1 2009, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE(cheahcw2003 @ Dec 1 2009, 05:36 PM)
if given a choice, freehold is better than leasehold. But freehold property is getting lesser nowadays.
*
Yes, it would be. Most of the freehold property are approved from the British era, and it also totally depends on the local state government whether or not to approved the freehold.

Actually 999 years of leasehold is the same at freehold. You can pass the property to God knows how many descendants you have.

This post has been edited by edyek: Dec 1 2009, 05:46 PM
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leongal
post Dec 1 2009, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE(dannywcw @ Dec 1 2009, 03:35 PM)
whats going to happened after 99 years? owner take back land or burn?
*
usually, 20-30 years before it expires, the govt will send in a letter (or sth like that) and inform residents if the leasehold will be extended or whatsoever....
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Singh_Kalan
post Dec 1 2009, 11:01 PM
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QUOTE(dannywcw @ Dec 1 2009, 03:35 PM)
whats going to happened after 99 years? owner take back land or burn?
*
most of the property near 99 years will be in horrible state and not suitable for occupation and will be demolished by then. Btw the history of KL is only 100 years ++. House are not build to last for 100 years.
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TarePanda
post Dec 3 2009, 09:32 AM
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I audited a company which the factory leasehold land title was expired...it took them more than 4 years to apply for the land extension and paid almost the same price as they bought the land...not included the under table money they had incurred...
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azxel
post Feb 22 2010, 02:37 PM
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I had a friend whose a developer who mentioned that buildings (houses/apartments) aren't really made to last 99 years anyway... imagine the condition of the place in 20-40 years time... it's prolly gonna be torn down or abandoned...
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Tohsan
post Feb 22 2010, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE(azxel @ Feb 22 2010, 02:37 PM)
I had a friend whose a developer who mentioned that buildings (houses/apartments) aren't really made to last 99 years anyway... imagine the condition of the place in 20-40 years time... it's prolly gonna be torn down or abandoned...
*
Even the wiring can only last for 50 years,after that need to change the wire of the whole house.
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ReWeR
post Feb 22 2010, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE(azxel @ Feb 22 2010, 02:37 PM)
I had a friend whose a developer who mentioned that buildings (houses/apartments) aren't really made to last 99 years anyway... imagine the condition of the place in 20-40 years time... it's prolly gonna be torn down or abandoned...
*
I think lease/free hold issues is more concern of the LAND instead of the house. Even the HOUSE is broken until cannot stay, but the land is still yours and nobody can ask you move, if developer want the land, they need to pay you to buy your land or whatsoever.

I think this is why most ppl prefer freehold.


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adriankhoo153
post Feb 22 2010, 05:03 PM
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But come to think about this, after 20-40 years maybe the hse is beggining to crumbling down. By then u need to buy new house maybe. If the land is leasehold, then the value of the properties might be lesser than freehold.

This post has been edited by adriankhoo153: Feb 22 2010, 05:13 PM
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cherroy
post Feb 22 2010, 05:39 PM
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The valuable part is the land, not the house/properties.

I find little difference with freehold and 99 years leasehold. No doubt, freehold is always preferred, but freehold generally come with premium compared to leasehold.

For ordinary people, affordability and monthly cashflow is the most important aspect to look at, instead of freehold vs leasehold.


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ReWeR
post Feb 22 2010, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2010, 05:39 PM)
The valuable part is the land, not the house/properties.

I find little difference with freehold and 99 years leasehold. No doubt, freehold is always preferred, but freehold generally come with premium compared to leasehold.

For ordinary people, affordability and monthly cashflow is the most important aspect to look at, instead of freehold vs leasehold.
*
I always dun understand y there's NO leasehold for 150 years, 200 years, 250 years or something ... why must 99 years? Look more beautiful? tongue.gif

I dun mind go for a leasehold that who's 150years, that's enough for 2 or probably 3 generations already.
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azxel
post Feb 22 2010, 05:54 PM
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Noticed that UK's leasehold is 999 years...

Then again, for the freehold, if the house crumbles, one probably need to sell of the land just to rebuild the house.. hehe
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scorgio
post Feb 22 2010, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE(azxel @ Feb 22 2010, 05:54 PM)
Noticed that UK's leasehold is 999 years...

*
Cos there's no freehold in UK.

Strictly speaking, the QUEEN/KING owns the land. The people leased their land from his/her MAJESTY.
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adriankhoo153
post Feb 22 2010, 08:44 PM
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How much actually the differen between leasehold and freehold properties? Let say a typical 20x70 house, will leasehold be cheaper about 10%?

How to compare the % cause there is no actual or direct comparison. I dun see any freehold and leasehold in the same or exact location but only area.
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T816B
post Feb 22 2010, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Feb 22 2010, 05:52 PM)
I always dun understand y there's NO leasehold for 150 years, 200 years, 250 years or something ... why must 99 years? Look more beautiful?  tongue.gif

I dun mind go for a leasehold that who's 150years, that's enough for 2 or probably 3 generations already.
*
150 years only 2-3 generations? It is more than that.

Assuming you are 30 years old now and have a son, 30 years later your son will have your grandson. Another 30 years, your great grandson. That is only 60 years from now and you already seeing the 4th generation. Come the 150th year, you great grandson will be 90 years old if he lives long enough (and probably he will have his great grandson too). smile.gif


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kikco
post Feb 23 2010, 04:47 PM
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question - is your future generation willing to stay in an old house, let alone rebuild a new house on the freehold land. m'sia still a young country, the oldest proper housing estates about about 30 odd years old (i'm talking e.g the pj old section 1,2,3 .. houses, not the pre-war petaling street) and i've heard ppl saying those houses look very old and would rather move into newer places.

unless u got a big huge plot of bungalow freehold land .... rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(T816B @ Feb 22 2010, 09:00 PM)
150 years only 2-3 generations? It is more than that.

Assuming you are 30 years old now and have a son, 30 years later your son will have your grandson. Another 30 years, your great grandson. That is only 60 years from now and you already seeing the 4th generation. Come the 150th year, you great grandson will be 90 years old if he lives long enough (and probably he will have his great grandson too). smile.gif
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ReWeR
post Feb 24 2010, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE(kikco @ Feb 23 2010, 04:47 PM)
question - is your future generation willing to stay in an old house, let alone rebuild a new house on the freehold land. m'sia still a young country, the oldest proper housing estates about about 30 odd years old (i'm talking e.g the pj old section 1,2,3 .. houses, not the pre-war petaling street) and i've heard ppl saying those houses look very old and would rather move into newer places.

unless u got a big huge plot of bungalow freehold land ....  rolleyes.gif
*
I guess everyone also knew not often will really stay in a same place for 99 years ... still it's human mind-set want to own something forever ... biggrin.gif

for me I think 99 is a bit less for me ... 150 should be ok ... haha dreaming. drool.gif
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lokideangelus
post Feb 24 2010, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Feb 24 2010, 12:12 PM)
I guess everyone also knew not often will really stay in a same place for 99 years ... still it's human mind-set want to own something forever ...  biggrin.gif

for me I think 99 is a bit less for me ... 150 should be ok ... haha dreaming.  drool.gif
*
i think our goverment should revise the leashold to 200 years .. if not then we should follow like uk 999 years... if the goverment dont give we vote opposition.. lol tongue.gif
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Goneraz
post Feb 24 2010, 02:24 PM
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I think everyone is missing the big picture here.. Its not wether we are gonna utilise the property for 99 yrs or not.. Its wether you can sell the property after say half of the lease.. I wanted to purchase a pre-owned leasehold property and i hit a snag. The house was beautifully renovated and the price was very reasonable.. Problem was the property is 40 yrs old and there is only 59 yrs left on the lease. No banks was willing to finance the property. They only wanna loan for a period of 12 yrs and that make my repayment incredibly ridiculous.
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lokideangelus
post Feb 24 2010, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE(Goneraz @ Feb 24 2010, 02:24 PM)
I think everyone is missing the big picture here.. Its not wether we are gonna utilise the property for 99 yrs or not.. Its wether you can sell the property after say half of the lease.. I wanted to purchase a pre-owned leasehold property and i hit a snag. The house was beautifully renovated and the price was very reasonable.. Problem was the property is 40 yrs old and there is only 59 yrs left on the lease. No banks was willing to finance the property. They only wanna loan for a period of 12 yrs and that make my repayment incredibly ridiculous.
*
is it possible to get an extension from the land office on that ? ie renewable back to 99 years ?
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edyek
post Feb 24 2010, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE(lokideangelus @ Feb 24 2010, 02:28 PM)
is it possible to get an extension from the land office on that ? ie renewable back to 99 years ?
*
Yes. It is renewable in Sabah & Sarawak. Sarawak is only renewable below 5 years. Sabah is below 10 years.


Added on February 24, 2010, 3:32 pm
QUOTE(Goneraz @ Feb 24 2010, 02:24 PM)
I think everyone is missing the big picture here.. Its not wether we are gonna utilise the property for 99 yrs or not.. Its wether you can sell the property after say half of the lease.. I wanted to purchase a pre-owned leasehold property and i hit a snag. The house was beautifully renovated and the price was very reasonable.. Problem was the property is 40 yrs old and there is only 59 yrs left on the lease. No banks was willing to finance the property. They only wanna loan for a period of 12 yrs and that make my repayment incredibly ridiculous.
*
My partners and I just bought an old shop lot in town centre which left only 17 years. Since the shoplot is almost expired, we have a real bargain. 40% below market valuation price. Thats the pro of it.

Yes, we need a lot of cash for the initial down payment, and thats the con of it.

We go to land survey department to ask them to write a letter to confirm that they will renew us the said property, and we bring along this letter to the bank to have our property finance. Although the banker only finance us 60% of it, but it is still better than nothing.

This post has been edited by edyek: Feb 24 2010, 03:32 PM
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lokideangelus
post Feb 24 2010, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE(edyek @ Feb 24 2010, 03:24 PM)
Yes. It is renewable in Sabah & Sarawak. Sarawak is only renewable below 5 years. Sabah is below 10 years.


Added on February 24, 2010, 3:32 pm
My partners and I just bought an old shop lot in town centre which left only 17 years. Since the shoplot is almost expired, we have a real bargain. 40% below market valuation price. Thats the pro of it.

Yes, we need a lot of cash for the initial down payment, and thats the con of it.

We go to land survey department to ask them to write a letter to confirm that they will renew us the said property, and we bring along this letter to the bank to have our property finance. Although the banker only finance us 60% of it, but it is still better than nothing.
*
so what happens if you cant get the extension here in semenanjung?

can i do the same as " We go to land survey department to ask them to write a letter to confirm that they will renew us the said property, and we bring along this letter to the bank to have our property finance." ?

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edyek
post Feb 26 2010, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(lokideangelus @ Feb 24 2010, 03:36 PM)
so what happens if you cant get the extension here in semenanjung?

can i do the same as " We go to land survey department to ask them to write a letter to confirm that they will renew us the said property, and we bring along this letter to the bank to have our property finance." ?
*
Normally they will extend your lease. Unless there is a planning in government department that they will take over the place to develop into something else? (normally happens to kampung or very old shoplot). Then they will pay you what they think if your shop worth.

I'm not sure if this method works in west malaysia. You can try to go in to L&S to ask the procedure of your lease extension.
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pilotHans
post Feb 26 2010, 05:02 PM
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I think Freehold is overrated tongue.gif i think anything still 90years + of leasehold is good enough.....imagine 30years from now..........god knows whats the situation or maybe we'll get another hows....I think we can still sell a house with 60years leasehold....the authorities are not going to just kick us from our houses sweat.gif

the most important thing is cash flow..u guys can continue brag on freehold n so, but in the end the one with the most cash flow enjoys life more blush.gif
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lokideangelus
post Feb 26 2010, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE(pilotHans @ Feb 26 2010, 05:02 PM)
I think Freehold is overrated  tongue.gif i think anything still 90years + of leasehold is good enough.....imagine 30years from now..........god knows whats the situation or maybe we'll get another hows....I think we can still sell a house with 60years leasehold....the authorities are not going to just kick us from our houses  sweat.gif

the most important thing is cash flow..u guys can continue brag on freehold n so, but in the end the one with the most cash flow enjoys life more  blush.gif
*
cash flow is important.. btw has any one come across the article from the star on Perak Government converting some of the leasehold lands to freehold?


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pilotHans
post Feb 26 2010, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE(lokideangelus @ Feb 26 2010, 06:09 PM)
cash flow is important.. btw has any one come across the article from the star on Perak Government converting some of the leasehold lands to freehold?
*

shocking.gif like penang!

so wish selangor will follow too sweat.gif
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imax80
post Feb 26 2010, 08:59 PM
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i understand the market value for leasehold property will decrease as the lease getting shorter..will it effect the refinance process? does anyone here experience in refinancing leasehole propert..appreciate comments
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propertynoob
post Jun 2 2011, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE
To choose either Freehold or Leasehold, really depends on your personal perception, investment strategy, and your purpose of buying these properties.

Rules of  real estate is always “Location Location Location.”. Leased land could also fetch a higher value if it is located in prime/golden areas, for example, Tropicana, Mutiara Damansara, and KLCC are lease lands with sky rockets property values.
If your purpose of purchasing the asset is for investment purpose to generate passive income from rental or capital gain, will it really affect your decision?

if you have no choice to stay on a lease land, will you be able to live up to 99 years? Even if yes, the condition of your asset has drastically torn apart. Your children or grandchildren may not even be staying with you. of course, if you have the cash, freehold is at your choice.


taken from this blog
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HighwayCruiser
post May 14 2014, 05:49 PM
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Generally, what is the percentage of price increase between FREEHOLD and LEASEHOLD if you were to flip the property immediately after VP?..say that both property are near to each other in the greater Klang Valley i.e. Rawang, Kajang, Klang etc.
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labybrad
post May 15 2014, 12:16 PM
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I am perfectly fine with leasehold property with 90+ years lease remains valid as the property appreciation along the ways already give you good returns and you can then sell the house to increase your cash on hand to purchase another better freehold property which is even newer and better in the future!
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cfa28
post May 15 2014, 12:36 PM
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The issue is what is the min amount of years remaining would be the typical Investor / For own Occuipation be comfortable with.

First buyer buys when there is like 90+ years remaining. He could be staying there for a good 15-years to 20-years

So, when its time to sell, there could only be about 70-yrs + remaining only.

Would the next buyer be comfortable or should the owner try to renew before selling again?


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labybrad
post May 15 2014, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(cfa28 @ May 15 2014, 12:36 PM)
The issue is what is the min amount of years remaining would be the typical Investor / For own Occuipation be comfortable with.

First buyer buys when there is like 90+ years remaining. He could be staying there for a good 15-years to 20-years

So, when its time to sell, there could only be about 70-yrs + remaining only.

Would the next buyer be comfortable or should the owner try to renew before selling again?
*
Let's see how the rules & regulations evolved when it's 20 years later? rolleyes.gif
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SephirothLee
post May 15 2014, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(pilotHans @ Feb 26 2010, 06:02 PM)
I think Freehold is overrated  tongue.gif i think anything still 90years + of leasehold is good enough.....imagine 30years from now..........god knows whats the situation or maybe we'll get another hows....I think we can still sell a house with 60years leasehold....the authorities are not going to just kick us from our houses  sweat.gif

the most important thing is cash flow..u guys can continue brag on freehold n so, but in the end the one with the most cash flow enjoys life more  blush.gif
*
i think it makes a big difference, the one who bought sri damansara and BU freehold as investment now laugh like mad as compare to those bought like leasehold in taman bukit maluri. I see my family difference in wealth comes to mils, where they can send their children to study and going for trips.
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UFO-ET
post May 15 2014, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE(SephirothLee @ May 15 2014, 03:15 PM)
i think it makes a big difference, the one who bought sri damansara and BU freehold as investment now laugh like mad as compare to those bought like leasehold in taman bukit maluri. I see my family difference in wealth comes to mils, where they can send their children to study and going for trips.
*
Land tenure used to be No. 1 concern among house buyer back in 90's
It become No. 2 in 2000 when location slowly picking up when distance to work / amenities become more and more important
When Gated concept was introduced in 2003, Freehold concern dropped to No. 3 spot after Location & security, when crime rate increase rapidly in recent yrs, safety becomes priority choice, means gated leasehold has more demand than non gated freehold, Sunway & Mutiara D'sara are a good example
The modern living concept gradually transformed from a normal Taman to Township enclave equipped with self sustainable amenities, Freehold further drops to No. 4 rating
Modern and futuristic facade has slowly overtaken freehold as No. 4th spot nowadays, youngsters prefer new and modern design rather than old fashion and outdated facade / facilities. Freehold drops to 5th spot in my opinion.

Buyer's behavior has changed a lot in the last 15 yrs, among the 5 factors mentioned, land tenure (freehold / leasehold) is the least impact on buyer's decision now, my real experience sharing. cool.gif

This post has been edited by UFO-ET: May 15 2014, 08:10 PM
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post May 15 2014, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 15 2014, 05:37 PM)
Land tenure use to be No. 1 concern among house buyer back in 90's
It become No. 2 in 2000 when location slowly picking up when distance to work / amenities become more and more important
When Gated concept was introduced in 2003, Freehold concern dropped to No. 3 spot after Location & security, when crime rate increase rapidly in recent yrs, safety becomes priority choice, means gated leasehold has more demand than non gated freehold, Sunway & Mutiara D'sara are a good example
The modern living concept gradually transform from a normal Taman to Township enclave equipped with self sustainable amenities, Freehold further drops to No. 4 rating
Modern and futuristic facade has slowly overtaken freehold as No. 4th spot nowadays, youngsters prefer new and modern design rather than old fashion and outdated facade / facilities. Freehold drops to 5th spot in my opinion.

Buyer's behavior has change a lot in the last 15 yrs, among the 5 factors mentioned, land tenure (freehold / leasehold) is the least impact on buyer's decision now, my real experience sharing.  cool.gif
*
But between a good Freehold Property with all the features such as Location, Security and GG vs Leasehold with also all the said features, most people would still prefer Freehold.

It also depends on what is the Buyers current age and what is their intention. Younger buyers do not mind Leasehold but older Buyers will prefer Freehold so their children / beneficiaries don't need to go through the hassle of renewing the lease in the future.
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post May 15 2014, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE(cfa28 @ May 15 2014, 05:53 PM)
But between a good Freehold Property with all the features such as Location, Security and GG vs Leasehold with also all the said features, most people would still prefer Freehold.

It also depends on what is the Buyers current age and what is their intention.  Younger buyers do not mind Leasehold but older Buyers will prefer Freehold so their children / beneficiaries don't need to go through the hassle of renewing the lease in the future.
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Ya lah just need to pay the premium
1.8 mil for a double storey in DPC

DO REMEMBER : PERFECT PROPERTY COMES WITH PERFECT PRICE! laugh.gif
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post May 15 2014, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 15 2014, 05:37 PM)
Land tenure use to be No. 1 concern among house buyer back in 90's
It become No. 2 in 2000 when location slowly picking up when distance to work / amenities become more and more important
When Gated concept was introduced in 2003, Freehold concern dropped to No. 3 spot after Location & security, when crime rate increase rapidly in recent yrs, safety becomes priority choice, means gated leasehold has more demand than non gated freehold, Sunway & Mutiara D'sara are a good example
The modern living concept gradually transform from a normal Taman to Township enclave equipped with self sustainable amenities, Freehold further drops to No. 4 rating
Modern and futuristic facade has slowly overtaken freehold as No. 4th spot nowadays, youngsters prefer new and modern design rather than old fashion and outdated facade / facilities. Freehold drops to 5th spot in my opinion.

Buyer's behavior has change a lot in the last 15 yrs, among the 5 factors mentioned, land tenure (freehold / leasehold) is the least impact on buyer's decision now, my real experience sharing.  cool.gif
*
QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 15 2014, 07:24 PM)
Ya lah just need to pay the premium
1.8 mil for a double storey in DPC

DO REMEMBER : PERFECT PROPERTY COMES WITH PERFECT PRICE!  laugh.gif
*
LIKEY!!!
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post May 15 2014, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE(SephirothLee @ May 15 2014, 03:15 PM)
i think it makes a big difference, the one who bought sri damansara and BU freehold as investment now laugh like mad as compare to those bought like leasehold in taman bukit maluri. I see my family difference in wealth comes to mils, where they can send their children to study and going for trips.
*
It is weird that you compare a property in BU with another property in Taman Bukit Maluri. It is the location that dictate the price difference, rather than the land tenure.
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post May 16 2014, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE(imax80 @ Feb 26 2010, 08:59 PM)
i understand the market value for leasehold property will decrease as the lease getting shorter..will it effect the refinance process? does anyone here experience in refinancing leasehole propert..appreciate comments
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I have real case:

Leasehold

Sold 2011 - RM350K - remaining lease tenure approx 50yrs
In 2012 - Mkt value RM400K - remaining lease tenure should be 49yrs

I very agree +10 UFO-ET's comment those factors will affect the price rather than freehold or leasehold


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post May 16 2014, 09:12 AM
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I agree with your opinion. just pick sg long as example, the leasehold properties price does not necessary lower than the freehold price. and if the area being a township as a whole, then buying leasehold is not really an issue.



QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 15 2014, 05:37 PM)
Land tenure used to be No. 1 concern among house buyer back in 90's
It become No. 2 in 2000 when location slowly picking up when distance to work / amenities become more and more important
When Gated concept was introduced in 2003, Freehold concern dropped to No. 3 spot after Location & security, when crime rate increase rapidly in recent yrs, safety becomes priority choice, means gated leasehold has more demand than non gated freehold, Sunway & Mutiara D'sara are a good example
The modern living concept gradually transformed from a normal Taman to Township enclave equipped with self sustainable amenities, Freehold further drops to No. 4 rating
Modern and futuristic facade has slowly overtaken freehold as No. 4th spot nowadays, youngsters prefer new and modern design rather than old fashion and outdated facade / facilities. Freehold drops to 5th spot in my opinion.

Buyer's behavior has changed a lot in the last 15 yrs, among the 5 factors mentioned, land tenure (freehold / leasehold) is the least impact on buyer's decision now, my real experience sharing.  cool.gif
*
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labybrad
post May 16 2014, 09:12 AM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 15 2014, 05:37 PM)
Land tenure used to be No. 1 concern among house buyer back in 90's
It become No. 2 in 2000 when location slowly picking up when distance to work / amenities become more and more important
When Gated concept was introduced in 2003, Freehold concern dropped to No. 3 spot after Location & security, when crime rate increase rapidly in recent yrs, safety becomes priority choice, means gated leasehold has more demand than non gated freehold, Sunway & Mutiara D'sara are a good example
The modern living concept gradually transformed from a normal Taman to Township enclave equipped with self sustainable amenities, Freehold further drops to No. 4 rating
Modern and futuristic facade has slowly overtaken freehold as No. 4th spot nowadays, youngsters prefer new and modern design rather than old fashion and outdated facade / facilities. Freehold drops to 5th spot in my opinion.

Buyer's behavior has changed a lot in the last 15 yrs, among the 5 factors mentioned, land tenure (freehold / leasehold) is the least impact on buyer's decision now, my real experience sharing.  cool.gif
*
Well said!
This is a good illustration of the property purchasing behavior evolution!
Thanks for illustrating this process effectively and proving such valuable insights.
However, some ppl just failed or refuse to understand the concept of priority ranking... doh.gif

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MJ29
post May 17 2014, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(pilotHans @ Feb 26 2010, 05:02 PM)
I think Freehold is overrated  tongue.gif i think anything still 90years + of leasehold is good enough.....imagine 30years from now..........god knows whats the situation or maybe we'll get another hows....I think we can still sell a house with 60years leasehold....the authorities are not going to just kick us from our houses  sweat.gif

the most important thing is cash flow..u guys can continue brag on freehold n so, but in the end the one with the most cash flow enjoys life more  blush.gif
*
Hi sifu's,

Is it advisable to purchase a new leasehold property from developer, however the remaining lease balance is only 77 years and the property is located at Puncak Alam next to Uitm Puncak Alam.

Should I decide to sell the property in 10 years time or so , will it be a issue??? , will the potential buyer may face difficulty to get a bank loan as the property is lease balance only be 66 yrs or so then....at same time guess these property will not appreciate much rather, rite???....

appreciate your views......should I purchase such a property or not???? rclxub.gif

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labybrad
post May 17 2014, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 04:00 PM)
Hi sifu's,

Is it advisable to purchase a new leasehold property from developer, however the remaining lease balance is only 77 years and the property is located at Puncak Alam next to Uitm Puncak Alam.

Should I decide to sell the property in 10 years time or so , will it be a issue??? , will the potential buyer may face difficulty to get a bank loan as the property is lease balance only be 66 yrs or so then....at same time guess these property will not appreciate much rather, rite???....

appreciate your views......should I purchase such a property or not???? rclxub.gif
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Some developer will renew the leasehold back to 99 years when VP such as Lakefilelds property.
Perhaps you should check on this?
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MJ29
post May 17 2014, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE(labybrad @ May 17 2014, 04:33 PM)
Some developer will renew the leasehold back to 99 years when VP such as Lakefilelds property.
Perhaps you should check on this?
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Checked and was told the developer will NOT renew it or topped it up....when VP.....

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post May 17 2014, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 04:42 PM)
Checked and was told the developer will NOT renew it or topped it up....when VP.....
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Guess Midfield 2 and Midfield 1 are sharing the same piece of leasehold land. YTL paid for the renewal before they started building Midfield 1. So they won't pay to renew again. Else, think Midfield 1 will sure get their place renewed back to 99 years too drool.gif
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labybrad
post May 17 2014, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 04:42 PM)
Checked and was told the developer will NOT renew it or topped it up....when VP.....
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Sorry to hear that, perhaps you should outcast those developer and only buy from responsible developer that will renew the leasehold upon VP?
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MJ29
post May 17 2014, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE(labybrad @ May 17 2014, 05:54 PM)
Sorry to hear that, perhaps you should outcast those developer and only buy from responsible developer that will renew the leasehold upon VP?
*
So u r saying not to consider such property????....just for your info the developer is so called reputable one...

There r people still buying the property at this project...despite knowing the lease remaining 77 years....they seemed not bothered or worried about it....i'm confused..

Sifu's pls share your thoughts....
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labybrad
post May 18 2014, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 06:06 PM)
So u r saying not to consider such property????....just for your info the developer is so called reputable one...

There r people still buying the property at this project...despite knowing the lease remaining 77 years....they seemed not bothered or worried about it....i'm confused..

Sifu's pls share your thoughts....
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You have your freedom to choose your option although i don't think i will consider such property.
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post May 18 2014, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 06:06 PM)
So u r saying not to consider such property????....just for your info the developer is so called reputable one...

There r people still buying the property at this project...despite knowing the lease remaining 77 years....they seemed not bothered or worried about it....i'm confused..

Sifu's pls share your thoughts....
*
such a property is "caveat emptor" or buyer beware. if you intend to stay more than 10-yrs could be an issue.

just ask yourself, if you hesitate to buy a 77-yr lease, woud u buy a 60-yr lease
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UFO-ET
post May 19 2014, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 17 2014, 06:06 PM)
So u r saying not to consider such property????....just for your info the developer is so called reputable one...

There r people still buying the property at this project...despite knowing the lease remaining 77 years....they seemed not bothered or worried about it....i'm confused..

Sifu's pls share your thoughts....
*
Developer with "Y" betul ka? brows.gif
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post May 19 2014, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 19 2014, 12:04 AM)
Developer with "Y" betul ka? brows.gif
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and i think the project name start with "M" whistling.gif
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tenable
post May 19 2014, 01:02 AM
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If I'm not mistaken you can renew the lease tenure by just paying rm1k to 99years to the state through several procedures if you intend to stay for a long time...but need to pay premium if want to extend tenure and able to sell it...am I correct?for selangor state....

This post has been edited by tenable: May 19 2014, 01:03 AM
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UFO-ET
post May 19 2014, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE(tenable @ May 19 2014, 01:02 AM)
If I'm not mistaken you can renew the lease tenure by just paying rm1k to 99years to the state through several procedures if you intend to stay for a long time...but need to pay premium if want to extend tenure and able to sell it...am I correct?for selangor state....
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Partly correct, the moment you dispose it off to 3rd party, you need to pay the premium according to rate provided.
Anyway it is still considered very reasonable
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tenable
post May 19 2014, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 19 2014, 01:24 AM)
Partly correct, the moment you dispose it off to 3rd party, you need to pay the premium according to rate provided.
Anyway it is still considered very reasonable
*
So it means doesn't matter how long you have the tenure left (e.g 40/60/75 yrs)...any of this would just need to pay rm1k (excluding legal fees) only so can get back 99years if opted for own stay?how about if the owner manage to sell the property without renew the tenure?does he need to pay the premium too or the new owner has to renew it?
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UFO-ET
post May 19 2014, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE(tenable @ May 19 2014, 01:33 AM)
So it means doesn't matter how long you have the tenure left (e.g 40/60/75 yrs)...any of this would just need to pay rm1k (excluding legal fees) only so can get back 99years if opted for own stay?how about if the owner manage to sell the property without renew the tenure?does he need to pay the premium too or the new owner has to renew it?
*
I dunno whether 99 or 60 yrs but it can be renewed
Owner has no obligation to renew it, both negotiate the terms
Dun renew - very cheap
Dun renew (but owner refund all monies if fail to renew) - slightly cheaper
Owner renew - mkt price

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MJ29
post May 19 2014, 05:17 AM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 19 2014, 12:04 AM)
Developer with "Y" betul ka? brows.gif
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Sorry what you mean by "Developer with "Y" betul ka?"......
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MJ29
post May 19 2014, 05:38 AM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 19 2014, 01:43 AM)
I dunno whether 99 or 60 yrs but it can be renewed
Owner has no obligation to renew it, both negotiate the terms
Dun renew - very cheap
Dun renew (but owner refund all monies if fail to renew) - slightly cheaper
Owner renew - mkt price
*
How much is the premium we are talking about to renew lease n sell the property if the current developer value is rm 511k....also is it difficult to get a potential buyer (roughly after 10 years ) for the right price....

Any idea how long does it take to renew the lease in selangor ( by paying premium) with option to sell...

Basically should I avoid such property or does not matter...can go ahead...


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MJ29
post May 19 2014, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE(MJ29 @ May 19 2014, 05:38 AM)
How much is the premium we are talking about to renew lease n sell the property if the current developer value is rm 511k....also is it difficult to get a potential buyer (roughly after 10 years )  for the right price....

Any idea how long does it take to renew the lease in selangor ( by paying premium) with option to sell...

Basically should I avoid such property or does not matter...can go ahead...
*
How much is the premium we are talking about to renew lease n sell the property if the current developer value is rm 511k....also is it difficult to get a potential buyer (roughly after 10 years ) for the right price....

Any idea how long does it take to renew the lease in selangor ( by paying premium) with option to sell...

The developer's selling point is the property next to uitm puncak alam, modern houses with lakes, forest n green concept and upcoming DASH h/way connectivity....(frm this project site to DASH h/way entrance is 10 km)....


Basically should I avoid such property or does not matter...can go ahead...

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12Digit
post May 19 2014, 07:40 AM
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Most of the bank don't loan if the property tenure less than 60years. At the moment if leasehold gonna to expire will the authority don't allow to renew? Any case can refer that is successfully renew their lease?
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post May 19 2014, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE(12Digit @ May 19 2014, 07:40 AM)
Most of the bank don't loan if the property tenure less than 60years. At the moment if leasehold gonna to expire will the authority don't allow to renew? Any case can refer that is successfully renew their lease?
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PJ Old Town
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12Digit
post May 19 2014, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 19 2014, 07:41 AM)
PJ Old Town
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for example if condominium how to renew any ideal majority how many % unit need to agree only can renew?
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post Aug 27 2014, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE(edyek @ Dec 1 2009, 06:27 PM)
Haha. That is what happens to Sarawak. And the People of Sarawak are voicing out their dissatisfaction over this matter. 
After 99 years, the lease will expired. All you have to do is take your land title and go to Land & Survey department to renew your title by paying a premium. If your land is a bit rural area, and it happens that the government wants to take the land and turn into something for their own use, they will not renew your title or they will opt to buy back your land according to their value.

This is the bad side of leasehold.
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whats the premium rate like? let say the house is RM170,000
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beginner99
post Nov 27 2014, 10:59 PM
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Hi All,

I am looking for a property near KL area. But it is a leasehold property with only 70+ years remaining.
Furthermore, it is a bumi lot. Should I take the risk and proceed with this unit?

Is there really a concern on buying a leasehold near KL area?

Please advise.

Thanks.

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corleone74
post Nov 27 2014, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE(beginner99 @ Nov 27 2014, 10:59 PM)
Hi All,

I am looking for a property near KL area. But it is a leasehold property with only 70+ years remaining.
Furthermore, it is a bumi lot. Should I take the risk and proceed with this unit?

Is there really a concern on buying a leasehold near KL area?

Please advise.

Thanks.
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i think bumi lot is more of a concern than LH. nod.gif
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beginner99
post Nov 28 2014, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE(corleone74 @ Nov 27 2014, 11:21 PM)
i think bumi lot is more of a concern than LH.  nod.gif
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Thanks. Yes, i have two concern on buying this house (leasehold and bumi lot). But it is very hard to get a landed property below 700k nowdays in KL area.

Usually how long does it take to take the consent for bumi lot?
The most risky part is loss legal fees for S&P about 5k.....
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beginner99
post Nov 28 2014, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE(lynforum @ Nov 28 2014, 12:26 AM)
near means which area?
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post Nov 28 2014, 05:46 AM
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QUOTE(beginner99 @ Nov 28 2014, 12:06 AM)
Thanks. Yes, i have two concern on buying this house (leasehold and bumi lot). But it is very hard to get a landed property below 700k nowdays in KL area.

Usually how long does it take to take the consent for bumi lot?
The most risky part is loss legal fees for S&P about 5k.....
*
No idea, but the process could be quite long. for the same 700k can get a nice condo with freehold status , security, facilities, some more could be newer too . maybe buy condo better, landed in KL seems too expensive to me nowadays.
just my 2c.
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Cabinda
post Nov 28 2014, 09:04 AM
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any chance state gov announce they give free a leasehold converted to freehold? any such case happen?
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post Nov 28 2014, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE(Cabinda @ Nov 28 2014, 09:04 AM)
any chance state gov give leasehold converted to freehold? any such case happen?
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post Nov 28 2014, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE(corleone74 @ Nov 28 2014, 05:46 AM)
No idea, but the process could be quite long. for the same 700k can get a nice condo with freehold status , security, facilities, some more could be newer too . maybe buy condo better, landed in KL seems too expensive to me nowadays.
just my 2c.
*
but then you have to settle for half the build up size , trouble to walk up daily to carry items , no gardening rights , and less space to design your house.

I would go for landed anytime , unless you got a budget to hit 2k sq ft condo , at a prime spot which allows convenience to buy groceries and lifestyle.
And this most likely wont come in anything less than 1.8mil onwards.
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beginner99
post Nov 28 2014, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE(PACINO @ Nov 28 2014, 09:51 AM)
but then you have to settle for half the build up size , trouble to walk up daily to carry items , no gardening rights , and less space to design your house.

I would go for landed anytime , unless you got a budget to hit 2k sq ft condo , at a prime spot which allows convenience to buy groceries and lifestyle.
And this most likely wont come in anything less than 1.8mil onwards.
*
Yes. Agreed. I feel the pain as I am staying at Condo now. Looking at the landed property price gone up so FAST, trying to catch one before too late.... but look like this unit too risky to go ahead?

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cfa28
post Nov 28 2014, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE(beginner99 @ Nov 28 2014, 12:06 AM)
Thanks. Yes, i have two concern on buying this house (leasehold and bumi lot). But it is very hard to get a landed property below 700k nowdays in KL area.

Usually how long does it take to take the consent for bumi lot?
The most risky part is loss legal fees for S&P about 5k.....
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Brp, if your budget is really RM700K and u don't mind sub-sale, there are plenty of choices for you

http://www.iproperty.com.my/property/searc...=&au=&sby=&ns=1

Just search some examples for you.

I personally always recommend Landed to ppl
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gulstein86
post Nov 28 2014, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE(lynforum @ Nov 28 2014, 12:40 AM)
Then it is damn near and damn cheap.

but normally bumi lot only allowed transfer in non-bumi area. in this case pandan is bumi dominant so difficult for u.
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I have friend that bought LH bumi lot in Puchong and sell it to non bumi..
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beginner99
post Nov 28 2014, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE(gulstein86 @ Nov 28 2014, 11:26 AM)
I have friend that bought LH bumi lot in Puchong and sell it to non bumi..
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How long does the whole process took? 6 month? what is the process and what if it does not approved? Bank loan will cancel automatically?
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PACINO
post Nov 28 2014, 11:51 AM
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Will take at least averagely 8-10 months minimum. Mine took total 9-10 months before got early VP from owner. Whole thing completed only officially at 11 months.

But dun worry , your loan will be considered start only from the consent period approval.

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beginner99
post Nov 28 2014, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(lynforum @ Nov 28 2014, 02:28 PM)
Puchong isn't a bumi dominant area.
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But Pandan Jaya I can see quite a lot of non-bumi staying.
OK. Thank you all. Look like I already got the answer now. smile.gif
Better look for others option. smile.gif

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AMINT
post Nov 28 2014, 08:41 PM
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i bought a LH prop and i sold to a nonbumi. no issue. the location was puchong. of course i was worried if i couldnt sell since no bumi came to see my house. only 70 non bumi families came. in the end it was sold with good profit. smile.gif
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Cabinda
post Nov 28 2014, 08:57 PM
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QUOTE(AMINT @ Nov 28 2014, 08:41 PM)
i bought a LH prop and i sold to a nonbumi. no issue. the location was puchong. of course i was worried if i couldnt sell since no bumi came to see my house. only 70 non bumi families came. in the end it was sold with good profit. smile.gif
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Is there any procedure? Like when there is no bumi wanna buy your unit for certain period then u r able to sell it to non bumi? Anyway how long have u list your unit?
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AMINT
post Nov 28 2014, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE(Cabinda @ Nov 28 2014, 08:57 PM)
Is there any procedure? Like when there is no bumi wanna buy your unit for certain period then u r able to sell it to non bumi? Anyway how long have u list your unit?
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i just follow normal procedure. no duit kopi or anything. since i am working overseas, i used agents. from started selling to booking period was 2 weeks. i did an open house. but it took me around 10 months to fully settle all.
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Cabinda
post Nov 29 2014, 06:14 AM
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QUOTE(AMINT @ Nov 28 2014, 11:38 PM)
i just follow normal procedure. no duit kopi or anything. since i am working overseas, i used agents. from started selling to booking period was 2 weeks. i did an open house. but it took me around 10 months to fully settle all.
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That's not too bad...
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gulstein86
post Dec 1 2014, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE(lynforum @ Nov 28 2014, 02:28 PM)
Puchong isn't a bumi dominant area.
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Well..how about bandar puncak alam..he manage to sell one there..
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SephirothLee
post Dec 1 2014, 11:09 AM
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if u ask me FH or LH
all my units are FH,
in majority of the cases, FH will increase more capital gain compare to LH,
there are exceptions, but seldom we know which investment we purchase is an exception.
of coz buy LH due to budget constrains,
in fact tats where LH shines... coz capital increment nt high u can buy cheaper subsale lol
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corleone74
post Dec 1 2014, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE(PACINO @ Nov 28 2014, 09:51 AM)
but then you have to settle for half the build up size , trouble to walk up daily to carry items , no gardening rights , and less space to design your house.

I would go for landed anytime , unless you got a budget to hit 2k sq ft condo , at a prime spot which allows convenience to buy groceries and lifestyle.
And this most likely wont come in anything less than 1.8mil onwards.
*
some people are happy with smaller size as more manageable , not everyone like gardening, and not everyone like to spend a bomb to renovate an very old double storey house. 7 years ago I would say yes, landed in KL. These days, I think it's just too expensive.
for example, for 700 K+ one could get a unit in tropicana with golf course facing and 2-3 br which is fine for a young couple with a kid. Try buying a house around that area - maybe taman mayang emas but the house and environment is quite run down. and it also cost almost 1M now.

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PACINO
post Dec 2 2014, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE(corleone74 @ Dec 1 2014, 11:10 AM)
some people are happy with smaller size as more manageable , not everyone like gardening, and not everyone like to spend a bomb to renovate an very old double storey house. 7 years ago I would say yes, landed in KL. These days, I think it's just too expensive.
for example, for 700 K+ one could get a unit in tropicana with golf course facing and 2-3 br which is fine for a young couple with a kid. Try buying a house around that area - maybe taman mayang emas but the house and environment is quite run down. and it also cost almost 1M now.
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that's the reason why we purchase away from the PJ prime spots. Comes with some drawbacks , but manageable for myself.

Good point also is that you have better neighbours smile.gif
Plus points.

Got mine at 600k odd. DST subsale , 5 year old property , with nice security , access card , electronic boom gates ,proper fencing & guard house all up. RA has been up and running for 5 years.

If we talk about jam , PJ area also really bad already.
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corleone74
post Dec 2 2014, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(PACINO @ Dec 2 2014, 10:00 AM)
that's the reason why we purchase away from the PJ prime spots. Comes with some drawbacks , but manageable for myself.

Good point also is that you have better neighbours smile.gif
Plus points.

Got mine at 600k odd. DST subsale , 5 year old property , with nice security , access card , electronic boom gates ,proper fencing & guard house all up. RA has been up and running for 5 years.

If we talk about jam , PJ area also really bad already.
*
Assuming you bought recently, that's a good price esp for a growing family, but where is the location? shah alam?
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post Dec 2 2014, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE(SephirothLee @ Dec 1 2014, 11:09 AM)
if u ask me FH or LH
all my units are FH,
in majority of the cases, FH will increase more capital gain compare to LH,
there are exceptions, but seldom we know which investment we purchase is an exception.
of coz buy LH due to budget constrains,
in fact tats where LH shines... coz capital increment nt high u can buy cheaper subsale lol
*
Freehold will be the best....if premium location than leasehold ok for me wink.gif
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beginner99
post Dec 3 2014, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE(cfa28 @ Nov 28 2014, 10:16 AM)
Brp, if your budget is really RM700K and u don't mind sub-sale, there are plenty of choices for you

http://www.iproperty.com.my/property/searc...=&au=&sby=&ns=1

Just search some examples for you.

I personally always recommend Landed to ppl
*
Thank you. smile.gif

Any comment on Serenia Garden, Ukay Perdana Ampang?
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cfa28
post Dec 3 2014, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE(beginner99 @ Dec 3 2014, 02:16 PM)
Thank you. smile.gif

Any comment on Serenia Garden, Ukay Perdana Ampang?
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Not familiar with the area, my focus in Kajang / Sg Long area

but from this link http://www.propertyguru.com.my/property-li...-garden-3663749

You have to watch out for Land Slides, etc. Looks like a damn big hill nearby

Also, what is the Bank Valuation cos this areas, some Banks discount more

Area also Leasehold, check how many years remaining

Also make sure u don't buy Bumi Lot if u are non Bumi

But if u are Bumi, u buy non Bumi Lot - transfer process is VERY MUCH faster

My preference is always for freehold cos I want to pass to my children but that just my personal preference only

Good luck Bro...
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Cabinda
post Dec 3 2014, 02:26 PM
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freehold with strata title property need state consent or not?
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PACINO
post Dec 4 2014, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE(corleone74 @ Dec 2 2014, 02:46 PM)
Assuming you bought recently, that's a good price esp for a growing family, but where is the location? shah alam?
*
yeah Shah Alam , leasehold with almost 90 years on the belt left.
Close to Denai Alam & Jelutong ( less than 5 minutes away )

Sign SNP last year Dec. Moved in just like last month or so.
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