wat, really? lol.

they have to be either:

1) horribly terribad
2) wearing terribad gear (which comes back to 1)
3) all of above.

i mean, theres tricks of trade, misdirection, almost every class can have threat reduction skills and/or talent, or even a complete threat wipe. blizz already "removed" the technicality of threat being an "issue" in fights (lol vael) and the result is ez mode threat. so yeah, it comes back to my 3 points:

if you're playing with such terribad people, you're probably very masochistic to stick with him.

and pertaining this thread:
fury warriors themselves have a talent to reduce threat in zerk stance :/

doesnt take a raider to realize threat (or the game for that matter) is ez mode.
dont kid yeself in thinking the game is hard.

hell, i know for a fact fury warriors arent usually (of course, there are good warriors who tops it now and then) the ones topping meters and if they arent on the top, they wont have to care about threat as the ones on top are going to die first if threat's ever an issue (yes i do know that there are classes who can wipe threat while warriors cant)

1) in a 10man, with at least 1 rogue and/or hunter for MD/tricks, having the tank's threat being equalvalent, if not more than 1 person's worth of threat, if your fury warrior is still out aggroing, only 2 possibilities:
- terribad tank
- terribad fury warrior and most likely doing stuff like blowing cooldowns right at the start with the tank barely hitting the mob for aggro buildup

2) because tank only can hold aggro on 1 target right? lol
boss can reset, classes like rogues/hunters can still retricks/reMD
again, all 4 tanks are capable of holding aoe aggro, and worse come to worse on aoe, fury warrior can shield up and/or get PS (yes, threat) salv etc. arguebly, ps is better off on the tank as opposed to some random fury dps who couldnt wait a bit for aggro

3) and whos to say you cant burst down targets still? tricks/MD is more than enough for aggro issues in addition to ALL tank classes in WOTLK having huge buffs to threat generation/scaling. and again, worse come to worse theres always salv, ps, etc.

seriously though, if other raiders are not having such issues, i dont see why you would. unless your terribad.

1) 30seconds is a fairly short cooldown
2) GCD and 15 energy/9% base mana is too much to ask right? lol (btw, i only do it at the start of the fight, as i havent encounter any terribad tanks, yet.
3) 100% crit? 100% trinkeet proc? bloodlust before the tank even hit the mob/boss? ok.
4) 1? i think warlocks would like to argue with you. granted, they got their threat issues buffed on 3.3
5) umm, lol? if you're talking bout taunt/FD in middle of fights, given hunters have MD in the first place, what kinda players are you bringing? lol
6) no one is saying anything about let tank build aggro before dps. as far as im concerned, MD/TOTT is more than enough.
7) wow has a built in aggro meter (that % number, hello?) if you dont want to bother looking at it, you are to blame for 1) getting aggro in the first place 2) dying from aggro
8) its not even needed in the first place, and when it do, all it takes is a macro/focus macro to perform, especially when you know whos the usual aggro pulling idiot
9) if your tanks have to blow CDs at the start of the fight to not die, that tank is probably not fit for the encounter.
10) if the encounter is meant for massive ad spawning, there is usually an OT. so your point is moot. and if you're so awsm at raiding, i dont think you need me to tell you to get to the tank when theres a huge ezmode warning on top of your screen saying 'AGGRO FROM x' aye?

yes there are issues, however, those issues are definitely not game breaking, and it certainly would not trouble a seasoned raider all that much. especially if said raider has been through the harshness of vanilla WoW when aggro management is actually a bigger issue (SB CRIT MOLTEN GIANTS WHOOO, VAEL raid wipes WHOOOO, you get the idea)

i find it ironic when someone is having such trivial problems when hes playing a paladin, and more often than not a healer at that, while others, not so much. holy light pulling aggro QQ? time to replace the tank.

1) you wanna start assigning md/tott rotations now? (or easier, replace the tank)
2) yeah, dps is hard. i guess someone is being considerate
3) 1 fight (or a very few, less than a handful) means the same for the entire WOTLK raiding content ya?
4) soulshatter and mirror image. grats on raiding.
5) throwing traps is hard. raid icon marking (doable by raid assistance) is hard. kiting adds is even harder. (go speak to classic rhokdelar hunters)
6) dps is never enough, irrelevant
7) umm, its blizzard built in and its there on the target icon? you dont even have to download aggro meters (is omen even still maintained? rofl) nor do you have to pay much attention to it unless you're blind/deaf/colorblind etc and the aggro warnings are unreachable to you. to that point though, you're probably better off not raiding.
8) and everyone who has a brain would realize to town down a lil when they are reaching aggro threshold and/or performing excessive crit strings (not really, unless the tank is brain dead)
9) so, the said heroic encounters will be done under 1 minute or 2? what if the tank needs the CDs, and they are all blown off at the start of the fight? just wipe and QQ too bad RNG gg'ed tank? doesnt matter if your running heroic or non heroic raids, raid bosses (exception to overgeared raiders of said content ^^) do not die under a minute, and the need to blow all your CDs at the start, is a good indication that said tank (or healer) prolly needs more gear
10) every tank has a range puller, and people who got aggro, can goto OT. get real.

if urself, and your tank is supposedly so good at aggro, why are you b****ing here?

duck and cover :3
solves all disasters

1) because according to you, aggro is a problem when it isnt
2) according to you, yeah
3) list out all the fights if you want, and then give out a full list of fights available in WOTLK, then compare the %. sigh.
4) lock's issue is more on shatter being resisted. not so much the CD, and of course, comparison against other classes threat reduction talent
5) /cast hunter's mark is hard. ok.
6) stacks, multiple md/tott can be done. unless you dont bring any rogues/hunters at all, then its problem to your raid composition
7) umm, your aggro % dont change unless boss aggro reset. go look at that % on your target next time.
8) if your tank havent done anything (based on your description), then well, get your tank to peel it off you? and those adds shouldnt wtf1 shot you.
9) then you even further void your argument as the tank doesnt blow all his CDs. and thus he can generate aggro. unless your idea of a tank is autoattacking?
10) surely you dont want downie mode when the game is already so ez? they have range and cooldown limitations for a reason. and in this thread regarding warriors, theres intercept (to the main target, where the tank is) or intervene. its much more effecient, and reliable than sprint. not to mention on a lower cooldown. try harder :/

and umm, in my book, b1tching isnt really vulgar. of course you could be really innocent and all in which i offer my apologies then. perhaps i should rephrase to whining?
and since your tank is doing fine, why are you here in the first place? your only making your point invalid. my posts were referring to bad tanks. and you came in anyways implying your tank is bad.

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Added on December 16, 2009, 4:32 pmconsidering your unbuffed crit of 42%, you are no doubt geared, compared to the tank you pug, is he on the same gear level as you are?
i mean, someone like me would still outaggro some random crap gear tank even with TOTT considering i do pull at least 4-5k dps on 5mans and 6-7k on raids. vanish/evasion could save me, but its on a longer cooldown.

in regards to onyxia, at least theres no more wing buffet. imagine p3 with that, and fears, and pre wotlk tanks. thats amongst the reason why people can still wipe onyxia despite being a guild thats capable of clearing BWL/AQ40

in fact, its even arguebly easier to do onyxia with less people back in the days. less chance of aggro probs, and less DB (back then onyxia's DB is done more when people are cluttered up)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 16 2009, 04:32 PM

1) doesnt mean tanks dont get their threat stats like str/hit/expertise etc upgraded, and the higher dps rogues/hunters do, the more tott/md aggro transfer they provide
2) dps - damage per second. you do dmg, thats it. if you die, be it pulling aggro or standing in faiyah, you dont do dmg, thus you fail. so it all comes back to the simple fact that dpsers, is all numbers.
3) not gonna list? how would you listing simple statistics hinder YOUR progression, or anyone's for that matter? rofl.
4) so you're saying, a warlock reducing 50% of his aggro, cannot deaggro the mob from the tank, or get below other dps'ers? then your tank(or other dps'ers) is having problems
5) didnt mention anything about tank and spank at all.
6) did i mention anything about stacking class? 2-3 rogues and/or hunters is HARDLY stacking at all considering a 25man size. unless your referring to 10man, where an ideal setup (considering 0 class stacking) is 1 of each class, and rogue/hunter is already 2 slot out of 10. furthermore, when have i mentioned to use specifically a warrior to tank adds? there are 4 tank classes, all 4 are very viable in aoe tank where a paladin or a death knight would have a slightly better advantage.
7) like i said, people who can transfer would benefit from this too, and its not like the tank is completely unaffected by such gimmick effects
8) "5. taunt cannot be resist, FD cant be resisted etc" is what you said, btw.
9) and thanks for proving me correct then.
10) only class without an aggro wipe/reduction and/or move speed up, is a death knight, shamans (assuming that he does not have imp ghost wolf, which most raiders dont, especially non enh) and lastly warriors having ret counting able to DS/self salv/self BOP. 3 classes out of 10. and those 3 classes, warriors are able to shield -> shield wall macro, DK on FP -> DP, shamans have ankh. and thats considering, said 3 classes (or the tank), f***ed up.

and my point was how easy aggro is and almost anyone (not just fury warriors) wont pull aggro, and even if they do, they have outs for their mess up. if one wants to REALLY pull aggro, he could've just run in before the tank did and blow all his cooldowns right at the start, there, he got aggro. but do you see how retarded that is? :/

and yes, you posting these issues up would make it seemingly as you are having bad tanks. if you arent having such issues, you wouldnt be posting them, so decide yourself.

you didnt even mention what kinda tanks you're playing with. ilevel 200 tanks or what? fully mitigation/avoidance geared tanks? lacking rogues/hunters? cant run with warrior tanks for virgilliance?

considering your set macro, i am going ahead to say its on 25man? unless you have stack 2 warrior at least on 10man.
with 25man said tank (especially if its a warrior tank) should have more than enough aggro for you to dps.

ive had warriors dealing 7-8k dps (which is higher than i am) and never had issues on aggro at all.

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Added on December 17, 2009, 3:35 pmwtf is this i dont even.

=edit=
wait a sec, by arms, you meant full arms bladestorm? do you even have http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=29763?
10% is a lot if you're doing so much threat :/

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 17 2009, 03:39 PM

frostmourne kthxbai

10% and virg should set you straight. that, and AFAIK fury scales better as you get more geared. and ilevel245 items are pretty geared if anything.

the new WOTF. F that.