life without religion is just like a white shirt without any strikes or any pictures. plain & not attractive....

Life with religion is like a white shirt that has been messed up with that curry you were eating. It's just not very comfortable.

Astrology has been replaced by astronomy; alchemy has been replaced by chemistry; witch doctors/medicine men have been replaced by clinical medical science; therefore I believe religion will be replaced by philosophy/humanism in the future.

Why does our life have to be centered upon religion in order to make it meaningful and fun? In fact religion in general stifles human creativity and intellect. It plays upon the things that are most vulnerable and tempting to humans when we know we need them most. Say for example, popularity, money & sex. Christianity teaches that the love of money is the root of all evils. But wait a minute, who doesn't love money? If Christians don't love their money, why not give it all to charity or even me as a "sinner"? After all they can't bring it to their grave and to heaven right?

On the topic of sex, even fantasizing is a sin. You can have wet dreams and yet it is deemed as a sin because your thoughts are impure. You are supposed to supress your sexual drive until or unless you are married. You are not supposed to manipulate your genitals but somehow certain religions claim the right to mutilate your genitals. Ludicrous isn't it? According to the bible, thought crimes are as bad as actual crimes. What is a crime without a victim? A victimless crime does not exist anymore than a square circle does or a married bachelor does.

About popularity, God must be the only one who is glorified, venerated, honoured, praised and worshipped as though he's someone who is desperate and dying for some kind of attention that kids want. It's something like an attention whore just that it's a manly figure. Because if you don't do that, he will not only not bless you but punish you with an everlasting fire. If you do get to heaven, according to Christian doctrine, you are supposed to be praising and worshipping God for all eternity! This sounds pretty depressing when you try to imagine it. Secondly on earth, you are not supposed to claim credit for things that you know darn well you achieved for yourself. The credit must be attributed to God even though it means to flatter him. Self-denial is the tenet of every religion without exception.

How can one say that the world is going to be boring without religion? We can still enjoy many things life has to offer us before we pass on one day. Be it properties, automobiles, gadgets, good food, fine wine, women (or men if you're a woman), career satisfaction, entertainment, money and of course sex and more sex (as long as it's done in a responsible manner).

This post has been edited by samteng: Mar 5 2010, 01:10 AM

this is plain subjective feelings...

If God were your creator, the wisdom you had, the great works you'd done, the happy family you had, the ability to argue on this religious topic and so on comes from him. Therefore, you should praise the Lord as without Him, where would you be? What can you achieve?

Like those who'd said, this topic is very subjective. But at least for me, as a Christian, Christianity is more than a religion, it's the truth.

to be honest.
if not for religion.
i wouldn't care about any human laws that governs us.
i would kill everyone i hate.
and i would steal for the sake of surviving.

i'm replying after i heard someone said religion is like electricity. something we can live without, but makes our lives easier.

you forget that today's world was built on religion.
every religion is basically the same, maybe except satanism.
all religion differentiates clearly between wrong and right.

if you think that the world is modern right now.
think again. you are rich, wealthy, can get internet, and post on lowyat.net
i'm sure you have a nice bedroom and a great toilet and dinner ready served on the table every night.
some things we take for granted. and we forget how lucky we are.
most religions tell you to be grateful, practice gratitude. give back to the poor.

let's say right now, i'm a poor fella. and you can imagine how many poor fellas there are out there.
and statistics have shown that in the poorer rural areas, religion is practiced more actively.
if not for religion, and if i was one of the poor fellas, to hell with human laws.
the first rich man i see, i'm gonna rob him, and i'm going to bring chaos. i'll make my other poor companions join me.
definitely will create war. perang saudara. die also die la, life also not worth living already. die also no afterlife what? so what to worry? better just die or steal.

most people forget that religion embraces gratitude. and when we are rich and wealthy, most men forget about religion.

i end this reply with a story of alexander the great (iskandar zulkarnain):
when king alexander was about to die, he asked for 3 wishes:
1. for his physicians to carry his coffin to the grave
2. for his treasures (gold and silver) to be the laid on the ground as his coffin is brought to the grave
3. for his hands to be dangling out of the coffin

his close companion told/asked him, "i shall fulfill all your requests my dear king but with all due respect, why all these strange requests?"

he answered:
1. to tell the world that no doctor can save your life. they are powerless and in the end you have to submit to death.
2. to tell the world that chasing wealth is a waste of time as these treasures cannot be brought along with me (though i understand that the chinese burn treasures to bring to the afterlife, i'm sorry if this statement has offended any)
3. to tell the world that i was born empty handed and i shall leave empty handed.

conclusion is, life is more than about chasing wealth. money helps being happy and comfortable. but chasing too much of it might just do the reverse.

This post has been edited by xlidric: Mar 15 2010, 09:50 AM

the story about Alexander ask for his hands to be dangling out of the coffin is a myth, this same story have been use with Napoleon. and i dont believe Alexander is driven by wealth i think he is more driven by desire to achieve fame and the glory of conquest and thus obtain immortality in the history book.

the argument that without religion no one will follow laws does not make any sense, the secular country often have lower crime rate than more religious country. Europe should become more and more unstable since WW2 if your argument is true, but as Europe become more and more secular, there is no more war fight between them and they enjoy the best quality of living in the world. in the past they get hardly go 30 years without getting into one major war.

When there is no one I can turn to in this world, I turn to God. Just to feel peace.

Myth or no myth. I didn't say it was true. The morals of the story are there. You don't need something true to inspire someone or make them realize.

You have obviously forgotten that the westerners are all joyously living happily with their wealth and stable economy. That is what makes a country peaceful. Their economy. If you say being non-religious relates to less crime, have you seen the statistics on wealth disparity?

They have forgotten all about religion, and all wealthy men do. But they also forget that religion has been the very foundation of their country and history.

In the olden days, people went to war for ideologies and wealth. These days it's still the same. Whether it be a physical war between U.S. and Middle East stealing oil. Or mentally, by telling all the developing countries to cut back on green house emissions and not develop as rapidly. Ever read what happened in Copenhagen? Ever heard about whites plotting for the 1997/98 asian financial crisis? You think the greenhouse effect is a full proof theory? It's a bloody white man's theory. If you ask me, tell the west to destroy their buildings and build more trees.

Think about it in terms of human rights, everyone should deserve to live the best quality of living as you've already said. The west are obviously trying to control the world economy, sustaining the wealth that they already have.

If you want to look in terms of country, fine. Look at your dumb statistics. Only 10000 people died in NYC WTC. More than 1000x died in Afghan/Iraq, and they are STILL dying.
Think about it in terms of the whole world. You think the wealthy controlling the world isn't a crime? They are all sinners chasing wealth. They do it subliminally. Pure capitalism.

You will never ever see CNN showing the terrible scenes and what not in Iraq. Have you seen the new movie The Hurt Locker. Pure mind control that is. A self indulging movie where they portray 3 bomb disarmers in Iraq going through a "tough life". Winner of best picture for the academy awards. How controversial...

So back to your argument, 30 years without getting into a major war? Best quality of living? Just think of it in a broader picture. In China, they say they have the highest pollution. But when you see it in terms of per capita, or should I rather say, per HUMAN RIGHTS; they're not even on the top 20 list. Australia's the highest followed by the U.S. So before you look for statistics within a country on religion, just remember that that's pure bullshit propaganda.

This post has been edited by xlidric: Mar 15 2010, 12:54 PM

why discussing about the effect of religion you rumbling about the white man conspiracy? are all european white, are all american white? how does this have to do with religion?

and about CNN no showing terrible scenes in Iraq, have you seen any gory image on CNN? they cannot show then, which tv station except those on premium cable paid tv are allow to show gory image?

also what is so controversial about the hurt locker, is it wrong to have a movie about bomb squad, or must every iraq movie be about the evil white man come to killed innocent civilian?

China do have highest level of pollution, have you seen how polluted china major city are? but china is not stuck in blaming everything on the evil white man, they know pollution and energy security are paramount to country's future, they are moving in a big way into clean energy, so that they can leap frog the US and other developed country. and the communist central control of the country may well make then adopt green tech faster than any other country.

obviously you didn't read the part where i said "If you want to look in terms of country, fine. Look at your dumb statistics"

your statistics are country based.
and i'm saying here, that your peaceful non-religious european countries are all a single entity guilty for committing war crimes. you want to say the european countries are "peaceful" and relating it to them not being religious. pure deviation.
and ooo cnn cannot show gory, but can show people jumping off wtc in their last moments of desperation. yaya save me your lame argument on that please. and about china's polluted city, obviously you didn't read the "per capita" part. or maybe you just don't understand.

also on your cheap shot on me calling the west "whites". it's a metaphor. lol. you must be real grown up not to have realized that. you can call me racist but i'm sticking to my generalisation.

china was stuck in Copenhagen. again obviously you didn't read any post mortem on that. sure they're gonna adopt green tech. but hopefully not by means of buying tech from the west and cooperating with google. haha.

p/s: it's "rambling" not "rumbling". this ain't wwe.

the religious indifferent of the Europe today are is influence by the the event of WW2, the holocaust is partly cause by the christian tradition of discrimination against the Jews, the Pope even done deal with Hitler. the destruction of the war made people wonder where is this loving God, why have he not strike down those Nazi before they can get the war started?

CNN show people jumping of building, but does they show the bodies when they hit the ground. the thing you are complaining is that CNN does not how bodies being blow up in the markets in Iraq?

Australia dont have the highest per capita carbon emission country like Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Aruba ... are higher. but you cannot compare the Australia with China level of pollution. Australia is the size of an entire continent but with only 22 million people. China have 60 time more population, several city have more people that entire Australia, so the effect of pollution are going to be more intense since so many people are pack together. thus the pollution in cites become a major problem for the chinese official.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ions_per_capita

how come China is stuck in Copenhagen? they could have refuse to sign, what can the other country do to china. impose sanction on currently the biggest growing economy while the world is trying to get out of recession? China and India just last week agree to join the goal of limiting the rise in global temperatures to no more than 2 degrees Celsius, or 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, beyond pre-industrial levels. China know very well they can profit from the green energy, they are the best market to roll out these technology in large scale.

but to some of them,
they think religion is useless.
its better to be a free thinker.

btw i think human do need religion
religion can really change a man much
mentally,spiritually,and their moral attitude

wow so now the europeans are in peace because they seek retribution from the aftermath of the holocaust? hmmm. okay you can have your say but seriously, wars are still going on till today between countries. remember russia and georgia? last last year only. and they're barely religious countries. ideologists/communists. georgia was a country struggling with it's economy and their US-educated president moved forward with military development. note that russia and georgia are considered developing countries (not first world) still not as wealthy and developed as west europe.

nazi's were also ideologists, not religious people. if you think they are christians going against jews, that's inaccurate. every religion teaches peace. nazis conspired that jews would one day take over the world, even till today that is still an on-going conspiracy. so you blame religion? or ideologists?

did i mention anything about bomb-blowing? lol. a simple show of how they are being treated in iraq is good enough. but guess what they show? haitians being rescued by the oh-so-loving americans. of course they look good. got money give la. in the end look good, but still got enough cash to be prosperous and wealthy. you really don't believe in media control do you?

lol and your wikipedia data is outdated. that's 2006 data when the middle east were developing massively. please get your 2009 data and then talk. and duh, of course countries with a larger pop will cause higher pollution. but isn't that fair? i breath the same air you breath. if i pollute 1mg of CO2, you should too. and you say that since australia got bigger land? so what. per capita doesn't include land. if i have 22mil people. the amount of CO2 emissions should be linear. why do the australians get to have more factories, more development and what not? and you forget that 1/3 of australia is covered with desert. and in true fact china has a bigger land size than australia + it's islands combined anyway.

china doesn't have the technology capabilities. they have the limitless number of cheap labour. their green tech is immature. why do you think obama had to resort in a green economy? nothing else to go for what. end tail of development already. seriously they should just pay american citizens to plant trees. if you say china can "profit" with single moms working 2 shifts at factories, that's just sad. in the end, who holds the wealth? who's living a better life? soon they will come up with a new idea, just watch.

and in all of this you conclude due to them being non-religious hence they are more peaceful.
here's mine:
human equality (not in terms of communism) = world peace
everyone knows asians are more hardworking than the west.
religion = a way of life and the very base and foundation of today's world
if killing wasn't a sin, i'd get on a plane and shoot george bush for committing war crimes. why tony blair kena charge but he never kena? think about it. it's a clear cut of who's controlling the world today. and it's controlled without human equality.

Do Human Need Religion?, some people say they can live without it (Philosophy)

I can live without it and I don't go kick animals into drains, stabbing people's back with gossips, robbing, stealing, killing, raping, etc...
In my opinion, religion is created long times ago to bring groups of people into order so they don't act barbaric/lawless during the time.

A human that grows up in a proper culture and environment doesn't need a religion to know what's right and what's wrong.

you said that religion is the foundation of today world, and if there is no religion you would be free to kill anyone you hate. then why is it the middle east, the origin or world major religion is no heaven on earth where everyone do not sin and follow the teaching of religion.

so your point is because the European countries are rich and developed that is why they have low crime rate, while other poor country though religious but turn to crime due to poverty?

i dont believe you need religion to follow the law, you just need effective enforcement of laws, moral are not exclusive to religion. if religion is required why is the Czech republic no in chaos right now, they have the lowest number of people believe in god and even those that do believe, do trust organized religion.

religion = super police

the more selfish a society is, the more it needs religion to protect themselves from their actions.

in a perfect world, there will be no need for police.

The view that humans need religion to guide them morally is stupid.
Are your moral actions based on the fear of the wrath of your god? Then are you really morally sound at all?
Do you do things just to please god and enter heaven?
I'm sure if your claimed god is super intelligent and omniscient, he should see through your facade, no?

With our without religion, good people will continue doing good things and bad people will do bad things. For a good person to do bad things, that takes religion. (quote from an american scientist)

If goodness can be equated with religiosity, how is that three out of five of the most dangerous cities in the US are in the pious state of Texas, home to President George Bush, under whose rule more executions were carried out than anywhere else in the country?

You people are brought up with christian upbringing, therefore it is the truth. Really? What if you die and ascend to the pearly gates not to see St. Peter, but an elephant god instead? What makes YOUR religion so good and exclusive that it is the truth? Because the bible said so?

And then came the extremists, who take scriptures by the word.

This is what goes on in a religious mind

Example A: Logic
Person X: Hey Y, i bought the latest BMW.
Person Y: Prove it!
X: Here *beep beep (alarm)*
Y: Cool!

Example B: Religious logic (if there is such a thing)
X: Dude I got a Ferarri!
Y: Prove it!
X: DONT QUESTION ME, I DO NOT NEED TO SHOW YOU PROOF.


Other religious excuses:
Do not question god
God works in mysterious ways
God is testing your faith
God has a plan