Paladins too defensive in PvP
I'll add it's also a problem where paladins as a whole are too defensive and not just the Protection spec ones. You see people describing fighting a Retribution paladin as a three phase boss fight. You might get them down, but then they can reset the fight with Lay on Hands. You get them down again and they bubble and heal. Compare this to an Arms warrior -- do they do great damage in PvP? Yes. Are they invulnerable? No. It's cool for paladins to care more about healing than do warriors, for I hope obvious reasons. However, if you are up against a Holy paladin, you should know that one of your greatest challenges should be dealing with their capacity to heal. If you are up against a Prot paladin, you should be concerned with their capacity to take hits. If you are up against a Ret paladin, you should be concerned with how much damage they should deal. You should not, generally, be nearly as concerend about the Prot's ability to self-heal or the Ret's ability to tank you.

I said this recently, but to reiterate, for most of the other hybrids, picking a role in a fight is much more of a commitment. Sure the Arms warrior can go Defensive Stance and put on a shield, but that doesn't turn them into a Prot warrior. Nobody is super concerned about Feral druids shifting out to heal. We had big problems with DKs earlier being able to tank and deal damage with the same set of tools, but that's in a better place now. Shaman maybe the only other class besides paladins that are able to shift on the fly from dps to healing, but with their mail armor and lack of major defensive cooldowns they just don't feel as hard to kill. (Source)

Don't nerf me bro!
This is just “don’t nerf me, bro” talk. We have been so gentle with paladin nerfs because we’ve been so concerned with returning to lolret, that paladins as a class are still very powerful in end-game LK in both PvE and PvP. Yes, it’s not fun to be nerfed. We get that. There is very little evidence we have over-nerfed paladins at any time in the past couple of years. There is plenty of evidence that we haven’t nerfed them enough.

SO I HEARD RET TAKES SKILLS?

to mods: by the gods, update the topic tags already lol

RET TAKES SKILLZ, I TELL YA!!!

YOU NEED TO PUT YER FACE CORRECTLY ONTO THE MACROED KEYS AND ROLL, PLAIN FACE ROLLIN' AIN'T WORKIN FOR RETS!!!

on another sideat least is better than *some class* that likes yoyo people here and there while his pet minions stun procs all around the clock, or *another class* that put dots on you and takes you for a walk around the park

fkn complaining sluts when their class are op its all kewl when other classes are op rawrwrararara emo imma quit every 1 lets end subscription and input *insert current op class* is op.

fkn complaining sluts when their class are op its all kewl when other classes are op rawrwrararara emo imma quit every 1 lets end subscription and input *insert current op class* is op.

lol now i'm on a lvling spree with RAF =p

im just waiting on my holiday to play mah ps3 games :< so many games left unplayed bcuz of werk

"Basically we're a offensive spec of a defensive hybrid who can't be offensive because we are defensive but our defenses should be nerfed because we are offensive."

33.4k mana unbuffed says hi...

Maybe I'm a pvp tard (which I most prolly think why I play exclusively pve anyway), but locks beat my ret flat out. fear > incinerate > incinerate xxxxxx = dead ret.

"Basically we're a offensive spec of a defensive hybrid who can't be offensive because we are defensive but our defenses should be nerfed because we are offensive."

"Basically we're a offensive spec of a defensive hybrid who can't be offensive because we are defensive but our defenses should be nerfed because we are offensive."

Paladin DPS flowchart:

http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-367/pa...lalalololol.jpg