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 HDMI Cable Quality?, Really make a diffrent?

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neb
post Nov 24 2009, 12:37 AM

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here is an interesting piece of info regarding the hdmi cable straight from the horse's mouth:
QUOTE
Q. What is the difference between a “Standard” HDMI cable and a “High-Speed” HDMI cable?

Recently, HDMI Licensing, LLC announced that cables would be tested as Standard or High-Speed cables.

    * Standard (or “category 1”) HDMI cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 75Mhz or up to 2.25Gbps, which is the equivalent of a 720p/1080i signal.
    * High Speed (or “category 2”) HDMI cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 340Mhz or up to 10.2Gbps, which is the highest bandwidth currently available over an HDMI cable and can successfully handle 1080p signals including those at increased color depths and/or increased refresh rates from the Source. High-Speed cables are also able to accommodate higher resolution displays, such as WQXGA cinema monitors (resolution of 2560 x 1600).


ar188
post Nov 24 2009, 12:50 AM

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cheap cables also got rated for Hi-speed.. so I don't see any other issue regarding using cheaper value cables..
moomoos
post Nov 24 2009, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Nov 24 2009, 12:50 AM)
cheap cables also got rated for Hi-speed.. so I don't see any other issue regarding using cheaper value cables..
*
so you are saying,.... there is a difference in standard and hi-speed,...??
ar188
post Nov 24 2009, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(moomoos @ Nov 24 2009, 09:08 AM)
so you are saying,.... there is a difference in standard and hi-speed,...??
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read the specs above.. in post 161.
hakbu
post Nov 24 2009, 09:39 AM

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Quote quote #161

Conclusion is buy quality cables that are cheap
RM 30 - RM 70 (still got the 10.2Gbs
You should be fine.
Want extra go buy component better.
wackojacko
post Nov 24 2009, 10:15 AM

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good cables do make a difference, perhaps not in the picture quality/processing but more towards data transmittion. A better built cable will be able to transmit the data more reliably. Signal loss happens more frequently on poorly built cables.

Does this justify the huge price tags of a Monster Cable? Cant answer that but Monster Cables are built to last.....
jchong
post Nov 24 2009, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(moomoos @ Nov 24 2009, 09:08 AM)
so you are saying,.... there is a difference in standard and hi-speed,...??
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HDMI cables can be tested to different specs. Just like network cables have Cat 5 or Cat 6. The question is how do these technical specs correlate to practical use?
hakbu
post Nov 24 2009, 10:45 AM

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Disclaimer : I got nothing against Monster. This is just referrence since Monster has been mentioned frequently.
\
Consumer decide
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

jchong
post Nov 24 2009, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(wackojacko @ Nov 24 2009, 10:15 AM)
good cables do make a difference, perhaps not in the picture quality/processing but more towards data transmittion. A better built cable will be able to transmit the data more reliably. Signal loss happens more frequently on poorly built cables.
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On this point, I just read on wired.com:

The claim that "digital cables, by definition, have no signal loss" is indeed false. It’s only true if the transmission is error-corrected, for example by using a protocol like IP. Without error correction, the stream of ones and zeroes can lose integrity en-route just like an analog wave. DVI and HDMI are not error corrected.

So that implies that transmission error / signal loss could potentially occur in poorly built HDMI cables.
anfieldude
post Nov 24 2009, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Nov 24 2009, 11:04 AM)
On this point, I just read on wired.com:

The claim that "digital cables, by definition, have no signal loss" is indeed false. It’s only true if the transmission is error-corrected, for example by using a protocol like IP.  Without error correction, the stream of ones and zeroes can lose integrity en-route just like an analog wave. DVI and HDMI are not error corrected.

So that implies that transmission error / signal loss could potentially occur in poorly built HDMI cables.
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jchong,

The error correction they are talking about is jitter. Remember that at the end of the HDMI cable there are DAC that can reduce the jitter. What will happen in the end is that if there are problems with recreating the data stream you will know that there is a problem it will not be subtle.

Also remember there is parity data encoded for some form of error correction at the receiving end and it is catered for. This is all part of the HDMI standards.

On a final note, this is all I will say, if u can see the differences between cables, then so be it, in your eyes its money well spent! I think trying to justify to people who say otherwise is a waste of energy....
jchong
post Nov 24 2009, 11:43 AM

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Thanks for the notes on jitter and parity data.

Like you said, if there is a problem with the signal the visual problem will not be subtle. The visual degradation will be apparent. On the other hand, claims that the visual will be improved (brighter colours, sharper images, etc) are subject to much doubt.
TStracktion3
post Nov 24 2009, 12:08 PM

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IMHO a high end HDMI cable will make sense is when it your Bluray Player is decoding the audio. This is because, once the audio is decoded, it will be transfered in PCM format via the HDMI cable. Here, we know, a good cable for an analog signal play important roles. So, it will be the best to decode your audio at the AVR instead of the bluray player. For those wants the player to decode are usually those player that could output via 7.1 analog signal at the palyer to your older but hign performance AVR. But if you wants to decode everything in the player, a high end quality HDMI should be able to make a diffrent. smile.gif Just my 2 cents though.

ar188
post Nov 24 2009, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Nov 24 2009, 11:43 AM)
Thanks for the notes on jitter and parity data.

Like you said, if there is a problem with the signal the visual problem will not be subtle. The visual degradation will be apparent. On the other hand, claims that the visual will be improved (brighter colours, sharper images, etc) are subject to much doubt.
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yup that's what most of us was trying to explain....

HDMI has data loss (cos no error correction) , agree

but data loss doesn't result in symptoms like sharper/blur images or dim/brighter etc..
htkaki
post Nov 24 2009, 12:38 PM

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I have a lot of HDMI cables with me, ranging from Audioquest, Giraffee, Panasonic, Pioneer, well-built cap ayams and the other is Wireworld IIRC. Erm,... no major difference in PQ and AQ that I can really see and hear. Or shall I say that all are the same to my peasant sight and hearing blush.gif There is only 1 case that the cap ayam HDMI gave problem. Totally no sound and pic.

ar188
post Nov 24 2009, 12:40 PM

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yup, the problem will be a significant noticeable problem if it occurs..

not subtle issues..
wackojacko
post Nov 24 2009, 02:05 PM

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ok, so is da same applies to analog cables like component and s-video?
TStracktion3
post Nov 24 2009, 02:22 PM

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I would suggest for those who play CD Audio. Try this test:

When you play CD Audio, compare between:
1. Use the HDMI cable to your AVR. At your AVR choose HDMI input.
2. Use a RCA cable red/white (L/R) to your AVR. At AVR chooce AV1 input.

Compare the result. You will notice the diffrent. This is how I listen to audio CD using my player. At least I can feel the diffrent.

In other words, if you plan to send digital signal, HDMI what ever price( with correct category) will do a good job. But if you plan to send an analog signal, get a good HDMI or out it thru other analog source. Just my 2 cents... tongue.gif
anfieldude
post Nov 24 2009, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(tracktion3 @ Nov 24 2009, 02:22 PM)
I would suggest for those who play CD Audio. Try this test:

When you play CD Audio, compare between:
1. Use the HDMI cable to your AVR. At your AVR choose HDMI input.
2. Use a RCA cable red/white (L/R) to your AVR. At AVR chooce AV1 input.

Compare the result. You will notice the diffrent. This is how I listen to audio CD using my player. At least I can feel the diffrent.

In other words, if you plan to send digital signal, HDMI what ever price( with correct category) will do a good job. But if you plan to send an analog signal, get a good HDMI or out it thru other analog source. Just my 2 cents... tongue.gif
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What you compared is the DAC in your CD player vs the DAC in the AVR in addition to the analogue cable. This is not an apple to apple comparison! Not to mention possible room correction on one and not in the other.
anfieldude
post Nov 24 2009, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(wackojacko @ Nov 24 2009, 02:05 PM)
ok, so is da same applies to analog cables like component and s-video?
*
No, analogue cables do make a difference. There is shielding involved.
TStracktion3
post Nov 24 2009, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Nov 24 2009, 02:24 PM)
What you compared is the DAC in your CD player vs the DAC in the AVR in addition to the analogue cable. This is not an apple to apple comparison! Not to mention possible room correction on one and not in the other.
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I mention used the same BDPlayer with both output ( HDMI and RCA) from BDPlayer. I only have 1 player.

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