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 Debit Card V2

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hye
post Sep 4 2011, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Blue07 @ Sep 2 2011, 01:23 PM)
My apologies if what I'm about to ask has been answered somewhere in this topic. I checked the first page of v1 and v2 in case there answer was there and found none.

I am interested in applying for the PBB visa electron as I gather it can be used for cash withdrawal overseas from any Visa/PLUS. However, my understanding is that some countries' ATMs are equipped for 4 digit PIN whereas I believe all our cards (credit, debit, atm) are 6 digit PINs. My email enquiry to PBB came back with this:

"Please be informed that the minimum PIN digit for a debit card/credit card for ATM function is 6 digits, not 4 digits.

Kindly make your cash withdrawal function at ATM machine which displayed logo "VISA" or "PLUS" only. Please advise us all the options that available from the screen and which option has you chosen in order for us to assist you. You may have chose the wrong option for your withdrawal function."

Does anyone have experience using the PBB Visa Electron for cash withdrawals overseas where the ATMs accept 4 digit PINs?

Thanks a bunch.
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Apologies for the late entry.
I'm afraid there's no way to circumnavigate this problem. I agree calling the local foreign bank or your bank's CS would not help much as highly likely they don't know it themselves unless they have experienced it before. You still need to look for ATMs which accept 4 digit PINs. One possibility is to use an international brand debit cards in the likes of Citibank, SCB, etc and use it at another Citibank ATM (if you are using Citibank and likewise for other cards) - in such cases the ATM will ask you to input 6 digit although the local system is 4 digit only.

Alternatively, you need to walk into the foreign bank itself with your passport and attempt to withdraw cash from your debit card manually.

Note that not necessarily the second option would work (I have never done the second approach myself). While all banks (all over the world) are supposed to support this method, a few times I have noticed foreign tourists in Malaysia being asked to use the ATM instead of using the counters/tellers in our local banks.


Added on September 4, 2011, 1:11 pm
QUOTE(Blue07 @ Sep 4 2011, 09:54 AM)
Funny thing is that the banks themselves seem not to quite know and give me vague ambiguous answers such as the one I have posted. One international bank's customer service personnel told me to just key in the 6 digit PIN anyway and "it should work". Another local bank told me to "look for ATMs of international banks. They should have a machine that caters for 6 digits".  sweat.gif
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Highly likely not to work because if the local system is 4 digits even the ATM's of international banks will also follow 4 digits.
I'm speaking from experience in a particular country in Asia.

CS just guessing but likely never experience this themselves.


Added on September 4, 2011, 1:21 pm
QUOTE(cshong @ Sep 4 2011, 12:24 PM)
I would like to ask some questions here.

A lot of hotels do not charge our credit / debit card at the time of reservation through their official website. For these hotels, our card will only be charged during check-in. Most of the hotels which applied this policy clearly stated on their website that debit card are not accepted. However, some of the hotels which applied this policy clearly stated that if we use a debit card to do reservation instead of uaing a credit card, our card will be charged immediately at the time of reservation through their website.

My questions:
1. If we use a debit card (e.g. MasterCard / Visa debit card) for online transaction, do the online merchants can detect that we are using a debit card?
2. If yes, how they do it?
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Hotel use a pre-booking feature when you book a room in advance. When happens is that they use their terminal/system to "charge" your card but stop short of posting the transaction. It is something like taking money from you but in this case it is the bank's money being used to guarantee your room. If no show or your do use the room then the bank will charge you.

Back to the original question - Yes, likely via your card numbering system which "tells" their system yours is a debit card. (Similar to how the system can recognize a credit card principle or supplementary) The cashier/front desk would not be able to tell just by looking at the card. And note my earlier answer ... the pre-booking system technically takes money from you but in actual fact the bank's money is being used to guarantee you. However, in the case of debit cards .... well there's no bank's money, it is the card holder actual money being used!

I don't see it to be a problem to the whole idea unless no show happens or there's some uncertainly about the booking.

This post has been edited by hye: Sep 4 2011, 01:21 PM
hye
post Sep 4 2011, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(cshong @ Sep 4 2011, 05:53 PM)
I just checked my mom's PBB Visa Electron number. The starting prefix cannot be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bank_...ication_Numbers and other websites, or may be these websites are out of date. Are those merchants website will connect to any system to check?

No offence. I just interested to know how the system work.
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As you mentioned ... not everything is listed. Merchants website are connected to bank's gateway system which authenticates the card. No, these are private information held by the banks and I'll prefer it to be this way. I don't feel safe if such information can be checked publicly online.
Thus it is the system that will know what sort of card you are holding, etc. and the person manning the system simply reacts to the information posted.
hye
post Sep 4 2011, 08:04 PM

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QUOTE(cshong @ Sep 4 2011, 07:38 PM)
Mean that the bank's system will check whether our card is debit card or credit card, but the merchant's system will not know about it?
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I think it is easier if you were to say what is your concern actually ? Seems like you are paranoid or afraid about something.
hye
post Sep 4 2011, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(cshong @ Sep 4 2011, 08:50 PM)
Ok. Just skip the issue on whether the merchant will know we are using debit card.

All my concern is about using debit card to do advance booking for services that we will only be charged at the time we start using it (e.g. hotel), then that "service provider" refuse to accept debit card during the verification process with their staffs but our bank still put our funds on hold. If we use our debit card to do online reservation for hotel that only charge us during check-in, the bank hold our funds to guarantee the reservation, and we are required to show our card for verification upon check-in at the hotel, but unluckily during check-in the hotel refuse to accept debit card but the funds hold by the bank still haven't being refunded to our debit card account, then there will be problems.

I just hope that I won't have to apply credit card just for hotel booking.
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Nothing you can do about this as this is the hotel's policy. Generally it should be OK but I believe hotel policies changes because of so bad hats who manipulates the system causing the hotel to change their policy. I think you are being too paranoid on the second part as this is a hypothetical situation only. Hotels are commercial entities, they will be happy so long you are able to convince them of your ability to pay for the services that they provide.

A suggestion, instead of using a "guarantee" system at check in - ask the bank to charge and post the amount immediately. If they are worried about you using the mini bar or what not then offer to pay them at check out or top up the deposit using cash. I'm sure they will be more than happy to accept your money. But if you flinch and squirm with a million excuses when they ask you then their next reaction is obvious. Put yourself in their shoes ... would you risk yourself not getting paid or getting a bad customer ? They would rather reject you, lose a customer and ask you to try elsewhere. This sounds cruel but this is the reality of things.

As I mentioned, hotel require a form of guarantee and they used to ask for cash in lieu of credit / debit cards. So long your account have sufficient cash then it should be OK. Do note that while rooms can be e.g RM100 but the guarantee required can be higher e.g RM250 and this is the required deposit per day. So if you are staying for 3 nights, be prepared to have a minimum of RM750 in your account which you cannot touch between the time you book the room until you check out and sometimes until the merchant (hotel) makes the final posting. (Which can be up to several days after you check out)

And ... take some time to understand the concept of transaction date and posting date. This impacts you as well because your card is being "used" for the room security for an extended time.

You see, the rules are simple ... have enough cash in the account and don't touch it. If you are unable to do so for whatsoever reason then work on cash.
I think you are thinking to free up cash and work on just in time basis. NO, you can't work that way as liquidity of funds is required in your account.

If you can understand the above then you'll understand why sometimes hotel reject debit cards. Simply because no one took the time to understand the system and when the hotel loses money, they just reject debit cards. There's nothing wrong with debit cards ... it is all due to the people who use and abuse it.

This post has been edited by hye: Sep 4 2011, 10:18 PM

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