Dear Sifus,

Since last week, my Denon AVR having the below problems or could it be other equipment?

- after playing DVD or CD Audio for about 1/2 an hour, the AVR suddenly output very loud sound of "shhh, krak krak" till I have to power OFF the AVR.

- while the DVD player (Pioneer) is playing with its display showing the time lapse running as usual. (no freezing or hang)

- sometimes, my LCD-TV blink display errror message "No input signal " in about every 2 second and the AVR keep on "switching". While my Pioneer-DVD red HDMI LED keep on blinking and my Denon output sound for 1 second, then goes quiet, then output sound for 1 sec and repeatly.

Also, I noticed, if I did not switch ON (or OFF) my LCD-TV, just the DVD player and AVR, no such symptons found but just the sudden "shh krak krak " sound after more than 30min running.

If I directly connect my DVD player to LCD-TV, no such symptons found.


DVD --->HDMI--- Denon AVR --->HDMI---> LCD TV.




To the sifus here,

I am at lost here to troubleshoot further.


What do you think? My AVR spoilt? LCD-TV? Or cabling?


Thank you in advanced.

Have you tried reset your 1909?

try change to diff HDMI cable

Try disable 'video convert'. It might help.

Dear Sifus Mpyw & Kianwee,


Thanks.

I will read up my manual on how to reset my Denon1909. (1st time for me!)


Before I forgot, I will get this sudden loud "shhhh, crack, crack" sound at half way of playing 1 DVD movie or CD audio. (not even reaching 1 hour yet!)

The AVR display the "normal" LED display info, just the speaker output extremely loud "shhhh, crack, klack" sound.

Sometimes, if I played CD-Audio, after about 30min, the AVR output a loud "eeeehhhhhhhhh" while my DVD player still running fine. Just no more music from the 5.1 speakers! (even my original volume was set lower eg. at -35dB) but the "eeeeehh" was way louder!


Symptons Found:

1) sudden loud "shhhh, crack, crack" if playing DVD-Movie, after half way only.
2) sudden loud "eeeehhhhhhhhh" if playing Audio CD, after half way only.
3) If I turn OFF the AVR and ON again, the DVD or CD-A fine for a while before the next error again.
4) My LCD-TV will display "No signal ..." and blank out for about 2 sec, then re-appear with "No signal .....pls check ..."
5) MY Pioneer DVD HDMI LED keep on blinkling ON and OFF while the sound output keep on playing for 1 second, then switch to silent, then back again, repeatly non stop.


Any other Sifus comments?

Over heating AVR?
HDMI cable faulty?

Overheating AVR will shutoff.

Sounds like a HDMI handshaking issue.

As mpwy says, try a different cable, or send for check. Might be the hdmi board.

Check maybe at input ac line above 260vac.If u are not sure better don't do it coz it is dangerous hence will snap u in black.

I solved my HDMI handshake problem in my 4310 by disabling 'video convert' function. I can do 1080p HDMI pass thru in standby mode.
Does 1909 have 'video convert' function?
Possibly it could be the hdmi cable.

Thanks to Ronaldjoe, choontoy and anfieldude.

Sifus pointed to the below.


(1) my HDMI cable problem. (oh no have to buy another HDMI cable?)

(2) my HDMI board! (ohh my god! hv to pay $$$)

(3) my AVR "video convert" function set to disable? (reading the manual now)

You can try another HDMI source.
Does GUI work flawlessly?

Yes, for the Denon AVR, the GUI work fine.

It is just out of nowhere a sudden ear piercing sound emit from the speaker!

I need to turn OFF the AVR and ON again, then back to normal for about 30min before it happens again.

Do you have:
1) Any other HDMI source to try?
2) Spare hdmi cable to test?
If both fail, it's to be sent back for checking/warranty.

On speakers, what set up are they? Connections all okay? Last month a forum member paired 1909 with pc speakers. His 1909 was sent for warranty. Luckily he got a new unit replaced by WKH.

Dear Ronaldjoe,

Answer :

1) No, I do not have other HDMI source, only from my Pioneer DVD
2) No spare HDMI cable too, have to buy I guess!

Wow, that great, I wish the same as I was not satisfied with my 1909.

I'm using Usher front and Mission Centre but lousy sound!

I wish I can top up and change to HD capable.

Do you know if CMY let me do such request?

Looking at your situation, it is rather frustrating with both video and sound problem.
If you can run GUI more than 30 minutes, then it's source or hdmi problem.
Your DVD player has component output?
How about trying component out to avr for 30 minutes to test out the sound part?

Yes, the GUI is run directly from the AVR front LED display. (since I cannot get my LCD-TV to display the GUI)

It keep on displaying dark screen and "No input....pls check...." and goes blank again.

My DVD is Pioneer DV 420V-K and I believe there is a Component Output but I do not have the Component cables!

GUI should be on tv screen. Wonder what set up you are having now?
Easy way is to bring it back to CMY for checking.

Bro, one last try is to reset the Amp microprocessor!

From the manual trouble-shooting, it says sometimes external noises can cause the Amp to malfunction. Reset the microprocessor will solve the problem.

Steps? Something like this............press the Power button while simultaneously press Input Mode and Speakers buttons, and release them after the display light flashing for 1 sec. After re-setting, all the settings will become default position. Check the manual for more details.


Last week, my 1909 suddenly does not want to output sound from Right channel or some very soft Hsssss sound from Right speaker. Re-check all connections are correct and this is the 1st time happened to my amp. Send to the shop but they tested No Problem at all. Take back and re-connect and everything back to normal. Dun know what happened? Keeping my fingers crossed that this issue wont happen again..........!!!!

Dear Mikapoh,

Thanks for sharing, I will reset the AVR tonight.

Guessed our 1909 not so stable after all?

Actually I am not satisfied at my 1909, mine a 5.1 setup (Front=Usher, Centre=Mission, SW=Roger) and the sound quality cannot match my RM400 Altec Lansing (when listening to CD-audio)

Maybe something very wrong?

Hello Bro,
Kindly pls take note that yr setup are not bad thus u r using Usher(front),Mission(center) and Roger(sub).Usher had received Award Winner for bookshelf thus SQ are veri details.I'm using this Usher s-520 with my Valve amp setup,soundstage veri wide and details.
U need to alignt for speaker placement inorder to get good soundstage depends with the room condition.
Hope this might help u.
Cheers

Choontoy,

I am puzzled too, my PC 2.1 better than it!

My Front = Usher V-601
Centre = Mission
Surround = Panasonic
SW = Roger

Anyway, maybe I use it in my living room or there something very wrong with my AVR!

What CD player r u using? Also are u matrixing the sound to 5.1 from a CD?

Dear all sifus who responded to my SOS call,

Thanks.

FYI, Master Chew help me to diagnose and solved this problem.

It is due a faulty HDMI cable. (not even visible to normal eye sight) And the HDMI interface is very fragile, so be extra careful and do not pull out or push in this HDMI like it is a RCA or Component types!

Hope the cable did not damage my AVR in long run and it's electronics as it gave out extremely loud sound many many times till I have to OFF my AVR.

This cable is from Pioneer DVD- 420V

To anfieldude ,

I do not have a CD player, just a DVD from Pioneer HDMI type if not mistaken 420V?

Anyway, thanks again for your valuable comments & suggestions.

master chew? the chew from PG ar?

No Master Chew from WKH!

---

Added on October 9, 2009, 2:31 pmNow, my next problem and I need advises from Sifus here.

Sorry, I am a newbie in component AVR.

I feel my system still lack of umphhh! (lack of Bass and Treble) especially when on Music (CD-A)

Front = Usher V601
Centre = Mission
Surround = Pana
SW = Roger

I have to manually set the SW dB to max at 12 to get some Bass

Anyone know how to get more Treble out? Or how to set ?

Can the Manual Equalizer help to pump out more Bass & Treble?

What the best ? The Auddessy result not so good to me.]

Thanks.



This post has been edited by alexalex: Oct 9 2009, 02:31 PM

hi Alex,
I just came across your post. I don't think setting the SW dB to 12 will solve your problem if you don't know your combination well.
I believe the problem isn't at your AVR side. I believe it's your equipment isn't match well.

I've done many installation with 1909 AVR and I never get over 5dB on the AVR side while the subwoofer level still stays below 50% par.
I'm not sure what kind of sound you are expecting your SW to give you, but from what I see, you probably want to have some super low level bass that you can't archive and that's why you max out your AVR SW side.

Check your Roger subwoofer frequency.

IF u can answer some of the questions below, i'm sure there will be forumers who can give u further advice.:

1) what's the dimension of your listening area? Room or Living room?
2) what's your roger SW model and size?
3) what subwoofer cable are you usnig?
4) where is the subwoofer located?
5) front and rear speakers model
6) AVR level for each speakers.

good luck.

Dear Junwei,


Since I'm new to AVR (previously HTiB & HTPC), I just learn to listen via trial & error methods.

My components not match well? I hope to find out too!

The bass when viewing DVD are acceptable but not when listening to Audio CD.
When listenning to Audio CD, it lacks of treble and the bass is acceptable if set my SW manually to max, that is +12dB.

But there is no sharp and clean treble which I can obtain from my Car Audio System (something like tweeters) or even my HTPC obtain better result. I am puzzled too a few $$$k system compare to $1k system!

Also, I noticed my Denon Manual might not be new as there was some pencil writing and remark on some of the pages! (but I bought it brand new!)

Anyway, my answers :-

1) what's the dimension of your listening area? Room or Living room?
ANSWER : My squerish living room is too open actually. 20x28 feet, but with opening (no door) to Kitchen and to staircase of 1st floor (typical MY terrace house)


2) what's your roger SW model and size?
ANSWER :
Model : Roger ASB 100.
Power amplifier : 100W RMS (8 ohms) .
Frequency Response : 30Hz-200Hz+/-3dB .
Crossover : 50Hz-150Hz (variable) .
Crossover Slope : 12dB per Octave .
Driver Unit : 254mm Long Throw .
Function : Power (On, Auto, Off), Phase (0, 180 degree), Level Controller, Crossover Frequency, Controller .
Inputs : Hi Level (Speaker) In, Line (RCA) In .
Dimension (WxHxD) : 290 x 335 x 325 mm
Weight : 12 kg (Net)

Front Speaker : Usher V-601
2-way system :
tweeter 1" (9930-20NC), low-bass 7" (8935A)
Sensitivity 86.5dB @ 1 watt/1m
nominal impedance 6 ohms
frequency response (-3 dB): 42 Hz ~ 20 kHz
power handling 70 watts
crossover frequencies 2.22 kHz
weight 12.6 kgs (per speaker)
dimensions (wxdxh) 23.8cm x 29.2cm x 44.5cm



3) what subwoofer cable are you using?
ANSWER : I'm using the given RCA-RCA cable (Denon SW Out straight to Roger ASB) Actually, I'm not sure the best way to connect up my SW as there was more than the RCA interface. I will try to share it diagram later.


4) where is the subwoofer located?
ANSWER : SW located at about 2m away from the AVR and FL, FR.


5) front and rear speakers model.
Front = Usher V601
Centre = Mission
Surround = my previosu Panasonic, 6 Ohm type.


6) AVR level for each speakers.
ANSWER :
These are not Audessy value as I changed it manually or should I use the Audyssey?

FrontL = 8dB
FrontR = 10
Centre = 7
RearL = 8
RearR = 8
SW = 12


Thank you ina advanced to those who is willing to read and comments.

---

Added on October 15, 2009, 10:31 amJunwei,

Sorry, I failed (do not know how) to insert the image of the SW wiring diagram, so I can only provide the website link.

http://www.rogershifi.com/brochure/ASB100-ENG.pdf


Thanks.


This post has been edited by alexalex: Oct 15 2009, 10:31 AM

Wahlau, your sub level is 12db max on your AVR ?

I suspect you didn't use a RCA Y adapter to connect your sub RCA.

Get this



and try it..

Acording to some expert, if you only plug one left channel, only 70% utilization.....

you probably give the wrong image of the Y cable.
Should have a RCA female port rather than mini jack port.

anyway, i think Y cable will not help alex.
He has already max out his sw level at his AVR side. I would probably think that alex's expectation might be different from most of us. I would assume alex is expecting high treble and powerful bass like his car audio.

for denon avr, u can increase the tone control for bass n treble but usually we set it flat to get the most natural sound from the movies.
for SW, we also set to a rational level to match our movies characteristic.

for your usher speaker, i would say it's a power hungry speaker based on the sentivity given by alex.
from this point, i would say it's a mismatching combination that caused the problem alex is having.
To resolve alex's problem, i think one has to be there on the spot to tell wat alex is expecting to hear.

apparently, alex could be having phasing problem on the speakers too.

n hand writing on user manual??? could it be a used unit ? where did u got it from?

You are right,

I didnt notice the other end... thanks for pointing that out.

Should be this one...

Dear Sifus,

Thanks for the comments.

My AVR has only 1 port labelled as SW. Therefore I connect one RCA cable output from AVR to one RCA input of the SW. Wonder how I utilize & connect the RCA-Y type?

Yes, bass for movie is acceptable but not for CD music (especially 80' euro/dance CDs)

Even basic CD Audio sound (current singer /normal CD) lack of treble and bass and just on par or a bit lower with my HTPC.

My HTPC was power up with Altec Lansing and a "reasonable $ good" 2.1 system, tiny satellite speaker by "Hi Tech" if not mistaken, bought from Hi Way Laser (or Style Laser?), Cheras a few years back.


Phasing problem? May I know what is Phasing? There a "Phase" switch at my SW too.

There are quite a few connections point at the rear of my SW, which I only use one port, SW.

Wonder what are their purposes and how to connect?

My Usher power hungry? Hmm, I 'm puzzled too. Or I must set the volume higher to "hear" it capability? (my usual volume set around -25 to -35dB range)

Bass and treble set it flat? I set my treble via the Equalizer (increase to V or n shape), but no different at all. My settings wrong?

Yes, a few pencil handwritings on my manual. Bought from CMY-Sg Way but the warranty card is by CMY Penang!

Bro,

You see the pic I posted here.


The white and red go to your sub left and right. your current RCA go to the other black end. Simple. I guess now you only use the left channel yeah. If you use the right channel lagi teruk, only 30% perhaps. So use both channel ok.

I audition the denon unit before. I notice it doesn't really have the juice to crank the MA RS6. Not sure what the max vol but the guy turn until -6 and still I feel not loud enuf. But the sound of denon is nice and warm. I guess it can be still adjust at speaker level and I suspect the MA RS6 need lots of power drive it open.. la la la. MHO only.

This post has been edited by tracktion3: Oct 16 2009, 05:36 PM

Dear tracktion3 ,

Thank you for sharing.

I think my Sub comes with only 1 RCA port only, no left or right.

And what's MA RS6, the DSP?

My normal Volume ranges from -25 to -35.

Bro,
according to the link you attached,

Rogers Sub

From this link, I could see:
1. Input from preamp left and right
2. High level input from amp

Did you use 1 or 2?

If you use 2, no wonder no power. I guess I know why, because the manual show like that. But using 2nd connection is like using your amp from your denon to power the sub. your sub is an active sub, since you use sub out RCA from your amp, shouldnt you be using the pre amp input in 1?

And I saw there is left and right on the preamp cable? this is where you use the RCA Y adapter.

p/s MA is Monitor Audio brand RS6 is the model. DSP.. Digital Signal Processing.

other sifu, correct me if I'm wrong. This Roger user manual is not user friendly enuf,

This post has been edited by tracktion3: Oct 18 2009, 12:23 AM

Dear Traction3,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think I'm using No 2 setup.

Anyway, I will go and buy the "RCA split to 2" tonight and try.

Actually, the manual diagram from Roger is not the same as the actual Roger SW, physically.

I will try to take a picture of the rear on my Roger SW and share here.

You use no 2? Thats where your problem is. Without the RCA Y adapter, you will get tremendous result. But I suggest, get the Y cable to have 100% capability.

If the drawing the same as the one you attached, everyone I mean everyone will get confuse...

Let us know how it turn out. and btw, you might one to lower down the level before you test ok... ha ha you are at 12db now remember...

---

Added on October 21, 2009, 10:41 pmBro alex,
Any update? I'm curious to know. Thanks

---

Added on October 21, 2009, 10:50 pmany update bro alex?

This post has been edited by tracktion3: Oct 21 2009, 10:50 PM

Bro,

I'm failed to find the Y-RCA cable in local stores. Maybe I need to go Jln Pasar or LowYat, KL? (I am in Bkt Rimau Shah Alam)

Anyway, I will share the ASB100 SW rear diagram here. (attached)


Opss, anyone willing to guide me how to insert pictures here?

I only managed to attached but not share the pic in same post reply.


Also 2 pic of my Phase Tech 2.1 Satellite speaker which amazingly sounded better than my Usher + Denon!

Wonder anyone seen this Phase Tech system before, bought more than 8 years ago and sound good till today!


Anyone care to advise me on how to get Treble out of my system, and how to use Equalizer?



Thanks.



Attached thumbnail(s)

You dont need the Y-RCA cable. It shows here that you already has the dedicated Sub Woofer input from your denon. Dont understand why you said still not enuf power.

Bro,

You sure?

Hmm, wonder why they include the "dedicated SW input".

Anyway, I still would like to test the 2 RCA input (red & white)

Do you think it will be the same result?

For movies, it the bass is acceptable after setting the SW 12dB.

But for Audio CD (song & music), it lack of bass and treble.

Do you know how to get more Treble out from Denon?

Can I use Equalizer? (currently Flat).

And when I set the Equaliser to the max or opposite, it seem no different at all (SQ stay same) or my manual method is wrong?


Thanks.

Audio CD?

When you play Audio CD, use the direct mode.Not sure if Denon 1909 got pure direct or not. Usually at this mode, your sub will not be utilized. I dont think we need sub when play audio CD. Just stereo will do providing your stereo speaker could play full range. Some AVR can use sub as well in the direct mode. But my Yammy 465 cant. And I read from some expert review.... we dont need it. There if now LFE in Audio CD. Other sifu here may be able to help. LFE usually for movies only.

I dont think there going to be any diffrent if you use the L/R channel or dedicated sub input at your sub.

Bro,

Thanks.

Yes, there is Direct Mode in this Denon.

It sounded average and not much better than my good old RM1k 2.1 system.


Do you have experiences in Equalizer?

Should use or just leave it at it is?

my 2 cents of input.....

Equalizer, the name it self tell us that we need to equalized something. In this case, "To Equalized" the sound so when it arrive on our ear, they arrive equally. When I was young, always like to boost the base and treble and it look like a bath tub. How naive I was. But what actually I'm doing is to get the frequency flat from all band. Good speaker, player, amp and cable will not change the flatness of the graph even when we increase the volume. But very difficult because another factory is hard to control is the room. Lots of reflections which can cause cancellation etc.

When you run Audessey, it will auto tune ( +EQ) each of the speaker and to get the best result base on the room environment. This is hard to do and for those sifu who got the ear of a bat can perhaps tune manually, providing your EQ come with great octave spread.

There are enthusiast that will get everything into perfection including room, cable and of course the hardware and software. This is expensive. So our AVR is consider "far away" from enthusiast who use tube, valve, turn table etc.

So, if you ask me, let your AVR do the tuning. The only area that you should play is the Xover. I suggest around 90hz but it depends on your setting. My apartment is pretty small around 18'x20' living room. So, base on some study, this will create a hump at 90 hz. So, I cross at 80hz for my sub and 100hz at my AVR. It looks like a gap right? Well no, the gap will tone down the 90hz hump and create a balance. I study my Wharfedale 9.1. As matter a fact, it has a bump around 90hz. A trick that the UK folks do to give a somehow good bass. But it depends on design. Many enthusiast don't like that. Speakers should produce flat freq respond as flat as possible. I own a pair of ESI 05 nearfield active Speaker. They produce a pretty flat freq respond. Sound On Sound magazine rated these active speaker a high mark.

So you see, in order to play with EQ, so many factor need to consider. The best is, you need a tool to do that. There is a tread here where sifu and enthusiast measure there freq respond and they own a tool to do that. Amazing result some of them discovered.

There you go... my humble opinion....

Dear Tracktion3,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts eventhough I do not quite understand the Xover, 80, 90 and the hump at 90Hz.

Hmmm first you need to know what is Crossover. Well with the name, is like crossing over to somehwere...

Well, is there is a speaker ( one speaker) that can play all the frequencies flat at any volume, that will be hack of a speaker.... but unfortunately no, there is no such speaker. Even the Horn type got some weaknesses...

So in order to get the frequency to be played nicely in a speaker, a diffrent type of size, material, technology etc etc been created. Even the Xover has diffrent design whether it is 24octv or 12octv. Google around and you get the technical answers.

To make things simple, so you see a set of speaker consist of a tweeter, a mid and than a sub. All these 3 are dedicated to play some certain freq. So, in order for them to recieved only a dedicated freq as mentioned, a cross over is required to pass the right freq to the right speaker. Even inside the bookshelf speakers got a cross over inside to make sude the freq devided to the tweet and mid.

Your sub woofer as per the pic attached has "low pass" which is actually a Xover. Which allow the lower freq you set to pass and anything higher than that will be block. There is a few more setting like Q etc etc, but that is to details to explain here. Google to get them.

As I mention, my room somehow cause some increase ( hump) at the 90hz freq. So it look like a camel back you know. In order to tame this hump and make it flat, I have to xover at 80 for my sub and 100hz at my AVR. So graphically this is what it represent:



Is not exacly the same, but just to make you get the point. More of this related to room acoustic and again... if you dont have a dedicated room... just leave this alone. Or.. if you want to be an enthusiast, start reading more.. ha ha ha, is good for yah and may help you to sleep if you have trouble sleeping.

Here is a good site to start
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm


this is my Wharefdale Diamond 9.1 Freq respond chart...



Notice the hump at about 100hz about 5db? couple with my room effect, my bass sound really boomy which I dislike. So, cross them at 80hz sub and 100hz avr could solve this problem. But I just use my ear. Dont have the equipment to measure them.





This post has been edited by tracktion3: Oct 23 2009, 03:00 PM

Bro,

Wow, thanks, guess I have a lot of catching up to do!.

---

Added on December 7, 2009, 6:42 pmDear Traction3, (or other sifus)


I seldom use my Denon AVR.

Yesterday, I discovered something wrong with my AVR and that my AVR will emits loud noise once a while until I have to power OFF and ON again.

=> Eg. now playing CD audio/MP3, fine for about 10 min (after ON), then suddenly my rear surround speaker (5.1) suddenly emit loud noise.
=> I will have to power OFF and then ON the AVR with the CD playing (no stop DVD player), then it is fine. (no lmore oud noise)
=> but it will appear again, after about another 30min (maybe randomly)

The sound from the speaker, sounded like someone blowing loudly into a MIC . I'm sure it came from the rear surround and not Front Speakers.


What could it be?

My speaker cabling?
My HMDI cabling?


Pls let me know if you encounter such problem(s) before and what possibility it might be?

My AVR warranty from WKH will expire in few months time.



Thanks.




This post has been edited by alexalex: Dec 7 2009, 06:42 PM