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 CALLING ALL MEDICAL STUDENTS! V2, medical student chat+info center

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limeuu
post Aug 28 2011, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(Huskies @ Aug 28 2011, 05:08 PM)
5 years in Australia would add up to roughly AUD 400,000 (including living expenses), at today's exchange rate adds up to over 1.2 million ringgit. So, to prospective applicants (who can afford the fees anyway), there's very little to sweat about provided you perform reasonably well in your pre-U/ISAT/interview. The money will kill off most of the competition for you - how many parents do you think have 1.2 million ringgit sitting around?
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no it wouldn't......remember you are NOT only competing with msians......you are competing with potential students from 40-50 countries around the world, including spore, thailand, indonesia, hk, taiwan, korea, prc, africa, europe, and also usa........and trust me, there are a lot of people whom aud400k is sup sup sui......prc's have been known to walk into sydney and buy multiple million dollar properties with cash...... biggrin.gif


Added on August 28, 2011, 6:10 pm
QUOTE(cckkpr @ Aug 28 2011, 04:26 PM)
Pms choices are getting lesser and competition are getting keener, so by paying slighty more, your choice is assured.
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as a rough assessment, talking to imu students about their grades used to enter, i estimate 80% of imu-pms students will NOT be able to get direct entry into uk/oz........and i know many are in imu because they have no choice.......they have applied and got no offers.......

yes, the main downside to imu is the lucky draw at the end to determine where you end up.....but at least there is a decent chance of getting into oz/uk if you ensure you are within the top 75% of your cohort.......jeffersons (and soon miami) remains a rare pathway for people to enter the american system.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 28 2011, 06:10 PM
limeuu
post Aug 28 2011, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(freezadwar @ Aug 28 2011, 03:09 PM)
so limeuu, what do you have to say about uitm's med school?
i would like to read your opinions smile.gif
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what do you want to know?.....

as a general comment, any institution of higher learning that base their admission NOT on merit but on ethnicity, is a racist establishment, and not worth fussing about........ smile.gif

go to any of the top 100 unis in the world, go to their website front page, and read their underlying philosophy/mission/vision etc......what do you see?......they all avow the BEST education to all on merit, irrespective of their attributes like gender, ethnicity, creed, religion, etc........many have clearly stated non-discriminatory policy statements.......

and uitm?..... biggrin.gif


Added on August 28, 2011, 6:24 pm
QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 28 2011, 06:21 PM)

Btw, I guess no one gonna reply on stationary needed for the first year sad.gif . I still clueless on how many paper I need...
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to my knowledge, all ipts med schools (even aimst) have some proximity to a decent town where they do sell paper, so i am not sure what's the obsession with stationary needs...... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 28 2011, 06:24 PM
limeuu
post Aug 28 2011, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 28 2011, 06:25 PM)
Lol, what do you expect. I for one think it would be fill with minority if not because of the policy. It's politic.
i know it is politics.....i have no problem if they make a policy of quotas......like the past......

but i take offence when they have an easy pre-u pathway into ipta, and claim admission is based on merit......

that is hypocrisy.....
limeuu
post Aug 28 2011, 09:37 PM

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the uitm programme is new, so it remains to be seen about the quality......however, based on the very nature of the place, and the type of students that usually ends up in uitm, i think all the issues about sub-optimal student selection and b and c grade students will apply........
limeuu
post Aug 28 2011, 10:51 PM

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so far, all graduates i know in oz have been able to get housejobs, so i think it is not as bad as people imagined........

as for the 'right' to stay back, you don't.....it is clearly stated in all offer letters that there is NO guarantee of an offer of a housejob at graduation.....

i believe most states have/are in the process of increasing their housemanship positions to accommodate the increase in number of medical students over the last 10 years of new med schools and increased intakes....

but it's a risk you take accepting a offer in oz.....

as for uk, the 2 fy's are guaranteed (ie, it is part of the tier 4 student visa) at this point, so you will definitely have a housejob and 1st year sho job, unless of course you choose to do it elsewhere..........beyond fy 2, you will need to apply for entry into the specialist rotation, and whether you get your choices or not depends on many factors.....again, i only know one doctor who failed to get a rotation, but luckily he got a tier 1 visa (now discontinued) and he was able to stay back doing locum jobs, and got into a rotation the next year.......people who left wanted to leave......mostly to spore, and a couple to oz.........
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 29 2011, 11:44 AM)
That's interesting. I didn't know you could bypass American system of accepting only graduates into medical faculty. But after some research on IMU-PMS and SMC accredition, I wonder why SMC recognized medical degree which twinning with a recognized one in the last two year of medicine program (3+2). This is despite full 5 year IMU not recognized.

Is the last 2 year really make a difference in the ability of the future doctor or is it SMC way of letting some doctor bypassing the stringent accreditation? (I heard Singapore health minister complained of a lack of doctor about 3 months ago in TV and why they depend on foreign doctor)
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your english is atrocious, how can you function as a future doctor?.....

smc's rule is simple.....the clinical years must be done in the country of award of degree, to be recognised.......and indeed, the most important part of a medical programme is the clinical part.....

note that because of this rule, pmc-irish degrees and monash msia are NOT recognised.....
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 05:51 PM

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QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 29 2011, 05:16 PM)

So to repeat my question, what is the difference of the clinical years being done in UM,UKM or UK grad that make IPTS student can't be recognized by most countries especially by Singapore's SMC? One thing I notice is that SMC recognized China's university but not Russian. Somehow I feel that while SMC is highly regarded, it is also susceptible to political development hence being inconsistent in its accreditation criteria.
the sentence is still completely structurally wrong........even with renewed effort....and certainly not ielts band 8 standard.....

recognition of med schools is a completely political decision.....but some more political than others......nobody can beat msia's.....

smc are not fools......you may want to look at the admission policy of the med schools before making accusations.....if i were to make decisions about recognitions, i would put that top in requirements.....over syllabus and quality of teachers and teaching hospitals........

i am referring to already recognised med schools with additional programmes based partly or wholly outside the home country......bottom line: clinical years must be in the home country.......
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(windz93a @ Aug 29 2011, 06:36 PM)

@fastimes, SMC does not recognise all medical degrees from China, as fas as I know. Singapore regards itself as the premier medical service provider in this region, as the contribution to its  economy is very significant in terms of " medical tourism". Whether or not political influence comes into the equation, it's already the standard guideline for malaysians pursuing medicine, that their degrees will be recognised by SMC. After all, if it's recognised by SMC, it will definitely be recognised by MMC. Please correct me if i am mistaken.
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smc recognises 5 china qualifications.....3 from mainland china, and 2 from hongkong.....

smc also recognises some qualifications that msia does NOT recognise.......perfect example would be the only country in the world msians cannot visit....

like i said, a lot of it is politics.....but pragmatism does have a part......
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(tqeh @ Aug 29 2011, 07:46 PM)
Limeuu, i know of a few friends in oz that are currently still jobless, especially those from NSW and Victoria.

Regarding the UK FY1 position, (well this is from rumours), apparently there were some locals who did not get a job last year - which is a new thing in the UK. It'd be interesting to see how things turn out next year - especially when they still cannot control the number of influx  of doctors from the neighbouring EU countries.
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the people i know currently in final year have all got their housemanship placements........i think it is more of a problem in some states, particularly nsw and vic......

i am not aware of any graduate who did no get fy1.....unless he/she wants to take a year off.......the necessity of fy1 is by law, for full registration, like msia and most other countries, so the gov has to provide this job......therefore it is unlikely any graduate who applies for fy1 will not get it........
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(Huskies @ Aug 29 2011, 07:45 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
thanks for the clarification.....it helps answer some of the questions i have about their new residency programme.....

there are downsides on this american style residency training, but i suppose it may work in the singapore context....

btw, 2 of the 3 new clusters are alexandra health (which paradoxically, do NOT now include alexandra hospital but has jurong medical centre) and jurong health, which will include the redeveloped alexandra hospital, and a new 700 bed jurong ng teng fong general hospital......these 2 new groups will likely form the core of the new ntu/imperial medical school......

the brand new ktp hospital (core hospital of alexandra health) is busting at the seams 1 year after opening.....this is exciting times for singapore healthcare, and i foresee they will need substantial number of new doctors, as the current production of 300/year (yes, compared to 5000 in msia) is just too little, and the ntu/imperial school will not see any graduation till at least 2018.......i estimate they will be absorbing 300-400 new doctors from outside spore (both sporeans and foreigners) over the next 6 to 8 years..........the bulk will come from um/ukm/oz/uk.........


Added on August 29, 2011, 8:39 pm
QUOTE(freezadwar @ Aug 29 2011, 08:12 PM)
but lets just say, among bad apples, there the good ones smile.gif
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that is actually a very bad situation to be in.....

it should be, there is a bad apple in every barrel........and there are.....in every med school, in every country.....

unfortunately, it's the other way around in msia......we hope for some good apples in our barrels of bad apples..... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 29 2011, 08:39 PM
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(Huskies @ Aug 29 2011, 09:02 PM)
"...........the bulk will come from um/ukm/oz/uk..........." Poor Malaysia cry.gif The reason Malaysian medical graduates assimilate so well into the Singaporean system is partly down to the fact that they're normally good at more than one language - Mandarin Chinese comes into mind, along with the various dialects such as Hokkien, Cantonese and Tamil for the Indian students. Singapore gets the wheat while Malaysia gets the chaff...
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the msian gov have made it quite clear they are happy if the wheat who are unhappy leaves.....

kalau tak suka, keluar lah.... smile.gif

the reason msian graduates merge easily into spore is, well.......we were basically the same people/culture, even same country at one time......


Added on August 29, 2011, 9:19 pm
QUOTE(Huskies @ Aug 29 2011, 09:02 PM)
there are only a few unis left with undergraduate entry: Adelaide, Monash, UNSW, UTAS (recognised in Singapore) James Cook and Western Sydney.
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newcastle........

uq has a 'double degree' undergraduate entry stream.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 29 2011, 09:19 PM
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(wgy589 @ Aug 29 2011, 10:01 PM)
Thanks for sharing. Anw, the 3 clusters are
1) NUHS- NUH, Ng Teng Fong Hospital (not yet ready, currently in Alexandra hospital)
2) NHG- Tan Tock Seng, Khoo Teck Puat-  traning hospitals for Imperial-NTU
3) SingHealth- SGH, Changi- traning hospitals for Duke NUS
this list is out of date, there has been very recent changes......

ng teng fong hospital will be under the new jurong health group.....that includes alexandra hospital which will be redeveloped.....

khoo teck puat hospital is now under the alexandra health group........
limeuu
post Aug 29 2011, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 29 2011, 10:07 PM)
I'm  guess you are also clueless on why the last 2 year make such a big differrence?
i didn't make the rules.....i tell as it is....

i have made an inference as to why they make this rule......if that is still 'clueless' to people, well i guess some people takes longer to learn...... biggrin.gif

people with b and c grades get into med school....and they wonder why their degrees are not recognised by advanced countries...... smile.gif

and btw, clinical is generally 3 years, or 3 years equivalence.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 29 2011, 11:40 PM
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(fastimes @ Aug 30 2011, 01:36 AM)

Btw, I heard that some IPTS student are being offered job in Singapore's hospital. Anyone heard of such things? These story make me a bit dizzy with with SMC...
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 30 2011, 10:22 AM)
Of course there are such cases...but surely they won't openly advertise the fact...
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all information asked is in the public domain, but as usual, people are too incompetent/lazy to find it....

it appears a grades academically nowadays doesn't say much...... biggrin.gif

there are alternate pathways for registration with smc......

since people expect to be spoon fed.....nah: rolleyes.gif

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709452985.html
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(reconnaissance @ Aug 30 2011, 11:55 AM)
Woa..
2 years of pre-clinical studies and 3 years of clinical.
In the UK, regardless of the rigor or depth of your pre-u curriculum, there's an unskippable 3 years of pre-clinical. So, any 'undeserved' top scholars, such as in a shallow pre-u curriculum, or inflation of grades, or even a lower-stage examination, will have another chance to study the pre-med which is the foundation to medicine. Therefore, I believe, that the rest of the pre-clinical will be studied thoroughly much easily, rather than the pure memorization that's often cried by med students around.
there is no such thing as 'pre-med' in uk.....except for some small intakes in some med schools as part of affirmative action programmes for disadvantaged segments of the british population or excellent students without the chemistry pre-requisite.....it is not open for foreigners....

pre-clinicals are normally 2 years......a few programmes are 3 years......

pre-clinical programmes with an intercalated degree may be 2 1/2 to 4 years..........and you get a 1st degree (usually B Med Sc) at the end....

the clinical programme (after pre-clinical, with or without an intercalated programme) is 3 years equivalent (generally 90-100 weeks).......but some covers the 3 years equivalent in 2 or 2 1/2 years.....of course at the expense of much shorter holidays..... biggrin.gif

edited for clarity.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 04:02 PM
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(reconnaissance @ Aug 30 2011, 03:08 PM)
You got it wrong.
The 'pre-med' in my UK context is spelt without the '', which meant biology or chemistry studies before medicine. I'm utilizing pre and medicine, not the official pre-med requisite selection.
And intercalated degree in your explanation is wrong. Intercalation meant two very related degrees taken in between certain periods, usually a year, which meant extra time, not shorter. Getting a BSc extra to medicine degree require an extra year. An intercalated degree with Phd, say, takes extra years in between clinical years to obtain it. So, intercalation takes more time, not less, and even its vocabulary definition also meant so.


Added on August 30, 2011, 3:30 pmHowever, sorry about the number of years of pre-clinical studies. It's 2. I suspect I got confused with my own extended plan.
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you are one very confused person.....doing chemistry and biology before medicine is NOT 'pre-med' or pre-med.........

and you have completely misunderstood what i wrote.....go read it carefully again.......

an intercalated degree is something done between the pre-clinical and the clinical years, and awards with an extra degree.....that extends the pre-clinical years by between 0-1 year, before the student rejoins the clinical studies.....it does NOT necessarily add any extra time to the studies.....do you own research as to which british intercalated programmes require more time, and which does not.......
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 04:24 PM

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the quality of a med student, and the quality of any new medical programme should NOT be even a question mark at all, in a well managed health care system......

nobody questions the quality of brighton-sussex, east anglia, cardiff, warick etc in uk......and nobody questions the quality of jcu, wollongong or uws in oz....

the fact that there is so much debate and concerns about msian's many new med schools speaks volume about how this issue has been handled by the msian authorities.....
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(podrunner @ Aug 30 2011, 06:03 PM)
I am a bit confused. Based on your explanation, A levels would also be considered "pre-med" then, as some do go on to do Medicine in Uni, although A levels are generally considered "pre-uni".
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don't be......he is wrong.....

pre-med means a specific foundation programme (studying subjects like chemistry and biology, of course!) specifically meant to enable a person to enter the 1st year of a medical programme.....and generally infer a guaranteed entry once meeting prescribed minimum results.....

don't confuse this with generic foundations like mufy.....

proper pre-u are generic programmes like a-levels, stpm, oz year 12, nz ncea level 3 etc.....while you still study the same subjects as pre-med, your qualification will enable you to study a wide variety of courses, and does NOT guarantee entry into medicine.....

under current practices in uk/oz, the pre-u itself is NOT adequate by itself to enable entry, as further filters are imposed, ie, the entrance exams (ukcat/bmed/isat/umat/pqa etc) and the interview....

don't bring the american system into this....they are completely different....


Added on August 30, 2011, 7:04 pm
QUOTE(reconnaissance @ Aug 30 2011, 06:42 PM)
For non-US curriculum, A Levels would be it. Since it's pre-university, and the very first degree you pursue is medicine, of course its pre-med. That's the prep for your medical course.
However, this applies only in my context, my words. Its using English, not the name of the course. The 'pre-' means before, so when it's attached with med, it meant before medical studies.
Swt.. You think one thing cannot fall into two categories? It's like saying, I thought a sport car is in automotive, not vehicles. It's actually both.
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you can't go invent your own words and you own definition like that......!

particularly, if you want to study medicine....everything, every word, every term, all have very clear specific, definition......so everybody is talking the same language, and on the same wave length.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 07:04 PM
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(Relentless @ Aug 30 2011, 09:09 PM)
Hello buddy, you're threading on a thin line here.A bit more than that I would labelled you as arrogant.
Have a care in the word you dispense to the public.
You are about to become the judge of medicine.My advice for you is to chill
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point out where i am wrong.....

otherwise, why am i arrogant, if what i say is correct?.....


Added on August 30, 2011, 9:55 pm
QUOTE(reconnaissance @ Aug 30 2011, 09:35 PM)
Swt.. No point going to fight anymore on this.
Btw, there's never a 'pre-med' course, with an exception of some in the US. Pre-med is just a set of requisites to be accomplished by a student for entry.
I guess only particular people would understand this.
"I'm doing A-Level as pre-med."
"Oh.. Okay. Biology and Chemistry, right?"
there are several 'pre-med' couses in msia, and overseas targeted at msians..... mostly feeding into eastern european or indonesian med schools......

some examples:

http://www.cyberlynx.edu.my/college_under_premed.html

http://russian-resources.com/courses/pre-u...sity-courseseng

http://www.klcplacement.com.my/index.php?o...=110&Itemid=178

it pays to do some research before making sweeping statements......especially on things you are unsure about......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 09:55 PM
limeuu
post Aug 30 2011, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Relentless @ Aug 30 2011, 09:58 PM)
dude, you're putting up a standard on the public forum.
you shouldn't strain your back on this one, I am sure there are plenty of good way of 'reprimanding' people on forum
You must understand not everyone out there have the access or privileges such as yourself (eg. command in english)
I think you should be tactful tongue.gif
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okay point taken.....you are not talking about facts, but my style of communication.....

i get tough when people who have wrong information dispense them as facts in this forum...it is dangerous, misleading......if they are not sure, say so accordingly, and i usually let that pass....someone with the correct answers will usually set the record right.....

see the context in my tone of language, before passing judgement.....



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