as in energy,

for the sake of example, is it possible to create 2 kilojoules of energy to become 4 kilojoules and from 4 kilojoules to make 8 kilojoules of energy?? without the usage of 3rd substance but just using physics like machinary or other renewable energy like sun and wind?

so for example you got a small wind turbine that create 2 kilojoules of energy, than using that energy to run 2 wind turbine that produce 2 kilojoules of energy each so a total of 4 kilojoules were produced from the help of only 2 kilojoules of energy. possible?

energy cannot be created of destroyed .. it just changes from one form to another

plus the first law of thermodynamic states that the energy put OUT will never be THE SAME or MORE than the energy put in

this is an impossibility

There will always be irreversibility, hence even the most ideal system can never have efficiency of > 1.

if its possible there wont be so many scientists scratching their headsfor new energy sources

The title only means two possibilities, which is:

- We do not have sufficient understanding of physics.

or, more likely:

- An incorrect understanding of physics.

Using a smaller energy to create a bigger energy, by doing so, we have created a perpetual motion machine, and violates either the first law of thermodynamics, the second law of thermodynamics, or both.

So,

my understanding tells me that it is impossible and whoever claim it is not they are bluffing.

But then, if,

I use 100s of quadrillions joules of energy to construct a robotic factory that able to do self maintenance, mineral harvest, automate construction of solar panel satellite and rockets to shoot them up to orbital to harvest solar energy and beam them back to the factory to create more solar satellite and after a while, I can generate way beyond 1000 quadrillions joules of energy. The factory is designed so well that it can self duplicate itself after acquired enough energy to another location or another planet, so after a while I can have endless factories controlling endless satellites absorbing solar energy all over the universe.

Screw the physics, did I satisfy what the title said?

This post has been edited by rexis: Aug 27 2009, 11:50 PM

Er...

Isn't that what they (scientists) are trying to achieve with (cold?) fusion....

Or is that null point energy...

Maybe that is why they still haven't succeeded!

I could be wrong....

transformer?

Total energy required to turn the two turbines to produce 2 joules each should be 2 joules each. anyway in the real world all the energy would be lost to heat and friction. i've ponder upon this question few years ago. placing a magnet under a spring, place it vertically. and in a vacuum container. if you let the spring bounce up and down. it will bounce forever as there is no air resistance. however, when placed an EM coil around it to create current when breaking the Electro magnetic flux, you will see that the oscilation will be dampened.

not to be sexist, but i'm impressed a girl would think so deeply into physics. respect

Dude, cold fusion simply means a controllable nuclear reaction. Nothing to do with perpetual energy.

ak_suknat is not a girl.

sorry to make you dissapointed

Phd section is making me dumber day by day



I knew the answer since form 3

how car jacks work?
by put minimal force and u can lift a car?

i think this is what TS means.. sort of..

Same way how you get down from 14th floor to 5th floor by using stairs instead of jumping off the window right away.

so what?
dont be arrogant, not every one know every single knowledge in the world. you feel happy when you ask some questions and some one say he already know that question even when hes in primary school? theres are something that you dont know but some one at form 3 know also.

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Aug 29 2009, 06:12 AM

And btw, science discovery are usually made by answering stupid questions.

thats the way of Plato. ask ask ask. thats how u learn

Not possible. Few years back, there is a company, (can't remember the name) claimed that they have a design where it would generate by itself. It was called as the discovery of the century, and many people were being sceptical about it. They did invite scientist to verify their design is indeed able to create energy. It was also reported in the website that these scientist agreed to it, but nevertheless no paper was being publish. The story has become silent now, I don't even know if they still exist.

Does it really work? I don't think so.....

2 answers: Firstly, you cannot make more energy out of some fixed amount of energy.

Secondly, you can actually do such a thing, which sounds extremely contradictory. See the exploration of oil for example. To extract the oil, we use say 500MJ, but in return we get 2.5GJ, or something from the oil itself. That however, does not contradict conservation of energy, and I think that's what the initial question was trying to ask. What happened was that the initial energy was used as an investment to extract a larger source of energy. But the source of energy wasn't created in any way in the first place out of nothing (please don't take this literally again - I'm talking processes that created these sources, say geological processes that led to deposits of oil).

This post has been edited by bgeh: Aug 31 2009, 07:42 PM

Ok....heres the deal mate Work = Force x distance

In a car jack, you crank the damn jack like a gazzillion times to get the 10 inches off the ground. Those cranks turn a gear which travels the distance. You need to do the same amount of work to lift the car whether with a jack or with your bare hands. With a jack, what you do is make the distance longer, hence reducing the amount of force you need to put in. Pulleys operate on the same principle.

Question at hand,

Nope....impossible under the current laws of physics. While yes, a device with a smaller amount of energy can trigger a reaction that produces larger amounts of energy (daily example, car battery produces power to crank engine, which then starts combustion cycle to produce enough energy to move the car)

This post has been edited by joe_star: Aug 31 2009, 02:09 AM

PHD section is fast becoming a hot bed for fake science and lame excuse to add a postcount. i already posted above that this is a thermodynamic impossiblity and still people think this might be possible. what lah?