Go to your library. Take a book on Real Analysis. Read it for the next few months. Come back and tell me how much shortcuts you've taken when doing mathematics on the real line for the past 11 years.

Or heck, go to wikipedia, read up on the Peano Axioms and then come back to me and show me how you can generate the set of natural numbers using the Peano Axioms. Then tell me what shortcuts you've taken.

Also, how do botting and hacking relate to real life then? I can see an analogy of people botting to people paying others to do their work, but how would such a person survive in real life if he's paying half or more of his salary away to someone doing the work?

This post has been edited by bgeh: Aug 20 2009, 09:03 PM

bgeh,

<<Define what 'creative' and 'out of the ordinary' means then.>>

Ordinary is what everyone does. Aka, normal process.

"It's never too late to change as long as they change." by jiaxun

So, you tell me is this a REALISTIC statement?? Anyone with enough experience know that this is FLAWED statement.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 20 2009, 09:02 PM

And why is it flawed? By your solitary anecdote?

I've changed from my transition from secondary school to college, so why can't it work?

Ey! We need to relax a little here. It might be just me, but the statements sound rather angry of late.

In this case, you left me no choice. I will have to blame it on your kindness in sending your nieces and nephews to US. You spoiled your own nieces and nephews. If that is the case, who are you to judge whether the younger generation still having their creativity?

Also, more working experience doesn't mean you've met more people in your life. Even if you've met a lot of people in your life, does this mean that everyone you've met before has an impact on you? The answer is definitely NO. So, no matter how many people you've met, as long as they has no impact on you, how can you count it as EXPOSURE? In this sense, you failed to realise this.

Dreamer, parents like you are the one spoiling the kids, making Malaysia such a country whereby almost everyone is afraid to speak out for their rights/ideas which ended up our fate controlled by politicians, not the fate of politicians controlled by us.


You know, sometime it's very seductive for one to post in this kind of serious thread which ended up one blaming another, one penalising another, one scolding another etc. I think I better be stingy and keep my 2 cents in my pocket.

I believe this section is a place to learn and discuss issues and ideas, not for people to point the blame in so and so direction. Frankly, I really have learnt alot from the discussion in the past few days. My opinion is only one facet of the gem, whereas we have other sides like dreamer's and bgeh's one. Which is why I opted to post this, so I can actually learn something :<

But worst come to worst, moderators will just lock it if it gets overly heated.

ouh. you are saying that creativity and progress is proportional. ok, ok, i can agree with this!

lol zeratos it's good to be asking questions.

dreamer is a much older user with alot of experience, i will never refute him point blank because it's like being rude to my mom or dad. i will say this though - i am an engineer too, and i finished cash flow one and two over night, again and again. my occupation and my hobbies are all things taken by my own initiatives.

parents are great, but at some point, a kid will realize that he/she has to get up and work it out on their own.

if u're free, read malcolm gladwell's 'outlier' book, he reminds me that culture and heritage also plays an important role on shaping individuals.

Will do! Have to finish some other books my dad gave me too :< That and I have to prepare for my SAT Reasoning Test. But, if I may inquire ; What is the book about? Any themes of sorts?

bgeh,

<<"It's never too late to change as long as they change." by jiaxun>>

The statement is NEVER too late to change.

So, imagine that you are 40 years old and you are TOO LAZY for your whole life, is it too late to change??

Yes, you can change but do you have the energy and resource to start all over again. You have wife, children, old parent to take care of.

<<I've changed from my transition from secondary school to college, so why can't it work?>>

So, you have NO IDEA what you are facing when you are much older.

Dreamer

---

Added on August 21, 2009, 3:17 amjiaxun,

<<I will have to blame it on your kindness in sending your nieces and nephews to US. You spoiled your own nieces and nephews.>>

Bingo. Now, you got IT. I blame my generation for spoiling our children.

<< making Malaysia such a country whereby almost everyone is afraid to speak out for their rights/ideas which ended up our fate controlled by politicians, not the fate of politicians controlled by us.>>

Talk is cheap. We have whole bunch of people complaining about NEP but supporting 90+% companies via ASx.

<< Also, more working experience doesn't mean you've met more people in your life. Even if you've met a lot of people in your life, does this mean that everyone you've met before has an impact on you? The answer is definitely NO. So, no matter how many people you've met, as long as they has no impact on you, how can you count it as EXPOSURE? In this sense, you failed to realise this.>>

The bottom line is VERY SIMPLE. I have a larger sample size than you do. I met more people than you do. My opinion is formed with larger sample size. As to whether it is valid or not, that is another matter.

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about as per IMPACT?

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 21 2009, 03:17 AM

Come to think of it, my parents are doing a real good job telling me not to vote for certain parties when the time comes.

Dreamer, if its not too much to ask, could you highlight the parts enclosed within '<< >>'. Gets hard to read ^^;

1st part: Yes, but there have always been exceptions, no? So while it is harder than when you were 20, is it ever too late? Extremely doubtful, but we seem to agree on that.

2nd part: Again with appeal to authority. Have you done the transition then? If you have, congrats, you're going to provide us with a single datapoint. If you haven't, well, your guess is as good as mine, no?

Well since I haven't reached that age, clearly I have no idea, according to your argument. Similarly I could forward that argument that if you've never done such a transition from being lazy and stuff till 40 and then deciding to do something with your life at that age, you also have no idea what such a hypothetical person is facing especially since you don't seem to have been lazy before you were 40.

Note that I mainly agree with your posts, except that you have a terrible, terrible way of posting your anecdotes and generalising them as though they are pure fact, which they simply are not.

This post has been edited by bgeh: Aug 21 2009, 04:52 AM

bgeh,

<<Well since I haven't reached that age, clearly I have no idea, according to your argument. Similarly I could forward that argument that if you've never done such a transition from being lazy and stuff till 40 and then deciding to do something with your life at that age, you also have no idea what such a hypothetical person is facing especially since you don't seem to have been lazy before you were 40.>>

We will know soon enough in Malaysia. We have plenty of people getting paid for doing close to nothing. And, their good time is about o be over. We will know how many of them will adapt.

I had seen enough examples from previous VSS to predict what the future result will be.

<<"It's never too late to change as long as they change." by jiaxun>>

<< The statement is NEVER too late to change.>>

<< 1st part: Yes, but there have always been exceptions, no? So while it is harder than when you were 20, is it ever too late? Extremely doubtful, but we seem to agree on that.>>

If your argument is based on EXCEPTION, then, the statement

"It's never too late to change as long as they change." by jiaxun

is still WRONG.

That statement implies it is NEVER too late.

You are saying,

Sometimes, it is not too late to change as long as they change. Hence, you are DISAGREEING with jiaxun too. And, you KNOW that he is WRONG. And, you do not even need to be that old to know this.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 21 2009, 07:59 AM

May the most creative wins...

Although we do not share the same thoughts, doesn't mean that you are wrong either. But here's a Chinese proverb to ponder, "Do not fear going forward slowly; fear only to stand still".

Regards, Joey

dreamer101:

It isn't wrong. Frankly all you've described is the problems facing someone trying to change at some older age, but that does not tell us whether is it ever too late to change or not. It is wrong if you can find someone who's done such a transition, and then said it was way too late.
But the question would be: In what way would we define too late? Too late for making a decent income? it's certainly not too late to have changed paths though, since such a hypothetical person has done it by definition.

Realistically though, it is indeed flawed like you said, because most people, upon considering practical considerations, would choose the status quo instead.

This post has been edited by bgeh: Aug 21 2009, 01:06 PM

lol ur argument has reminded me of the kfc story

col. sanders was already a retired 60yr old uncle when he decided to sell a recipe for fried chicken

is that old or not? should be old right

but then again, selling fried chicken is not a revolutionary idea

ok ok carry on

Also he did not just out of nowhere think "hey, I'll start selling chicken." If wikipedia is correct, he was frying chicken for 25 years before he started the franchise.

You guys might wanna take a look at this. Many examples successful late bloomers. However, I still would have to agree with dreamer101, except for his 40 year old man example.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/20...tter-late-never

Folks,

Depending on what you want to do, you only have a certain time window in your life to do it. If not, it is DIFFICULT and CLOSE to impossible to do it.

A) Physical limitation.

For example, if you want to be a TOP gymnast or dancer, your peak physical capability is before 35 years old or even younger.

B) Environmental limit

In Malaysia, you may not be admitted for further study if you have to start from the bottom.

C) Age discrimination

This is rampant in Malaysia. If you are at 40 or older, you want to change your career path, people may not hire you.

So, it is NOT never to late to change. Sometimes, it is NOT to lo late to change.

For example, we sponsored our nephew for 5 years to study in USA. He was too lazy and he wasted his opportunity. We will NEVER sponsor him again. And, his parent give up on him too. Now, his parent use their savings to travel instead. Yes, he may change and decide to pursue his education later. But, he is much much older and he has to do it without anyone's financial support. But, with ONLY SPM, it is VERY DIFFICULT for him to survive to begin with. Much less talking about saving for further education.

We sponsored many of our nephews and nieces over the past 10 years. 50% of them does not make it. They were spoiled by us and their parents. They are not motivated.

Dreamer

P.S.: My apology if I offended anyone. I am NOT trying to pick on anyone. I am just relying my experience and observation where my generation had spoiled many children. In my nephews and nieces cases, they were so spoiled and lazy that even when they were given FULL SPONSORSHIP to study at USA, they could not handle it. And, they missed their chance. They will not be given another chance again.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 21 2009, 09:09 PM

Eh, your experience is fully appreciated! It reflects alot and even if people disagree with it there are still those who benefit from your insight alright?