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Philosophy Creativity, Are we seriously losing it?

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TSZeratoS
post Aug 21 2009, 03:27 AM

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Come to think of it, my parents are doing a real good job telling me not to vote for certain parties when the time comes.

Dreamer, if its not too much to ask, could you highlight the parts enclosed within '<< >>'. Gets hard to read ^^;
TSZeratoS
post Aug 21 2009, 08:52 PM

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Eh, your experience is fully appreciated! It reflects alot and even if people disagree with it there are still those who benefit from your insight alright? smile.gif
TSZeratoS
post Aug 22 2009, 08:58 PM

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Not that related, but I wanted to share a quote from the book The monk who sold his Ferrari by Robin S. Sharma

QUOTE
"There are no mistakes in life, only lessons. There is no such thing as a negative experience, only opportunities to grow, learn and advance along the road of self-mastery. From struggle comes strength. Even pain can be a wonderful teacher"

TSZeratoS
post Aug 23 2009, 01:16 AM

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Of course we must treat each experience accordingly lah. No point in repeating the same mistake over and over and over. It was just something interesting I came across while reading because its a different perspective to things ala the half empty/half full cup.

Interesting information you have there, will read it when I have some free time. Muchos gracias.
TSZeratoS
post Sep 18 2009, 01:26 AM

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QUOTE(convivencia @ Sep 17 2009, 06:16 PM)
To TS,

The answer is a definite NO

For some, they don't lose something they do not have to begin with

For others, no matter what the outside society wants to do to them, what they have they still retain

And for this country, sad to say, more than 99% of our countryfolks fall into the first category

No, it ain't the education system, it's the people

Face it, we are a ppl with no imagination

In other words, we are stupid, very stupid, as compared to ppl from other countries
*
Well! I'm back here after quite a long while of absence. Have been still preparing for my SAT's, so once again this proves to be a good ground for learning and discussing.

How very true and applicable to many of our countrymen.
TSZeratoS
post Sep 19 2009, 03:22 AM

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QUOTE(minority @ Sep 18 2009, 07:47 PM)
Or more precisely, subjective.

Creativity in the human sense can only be evaluated by another human (or the creator himself), after all.

cheers
*
Does not hinder us from establishing our own grounds on which we judge and value creativity eh? Given the situation ; "I would like to try to solve this problem on my own and see if I may possibly contrieve a better solution to which I can overcome this" as opposed to "Give me the answers so I can get this over with". Being lazy does hinder thought no?

I've learnt that the mindset of one factors in this debate. Often does negativity play its role in the lack of creative development. If it's too hard to do, many will just ask another for the answers as opposed to trying their best to solve the problem. The "hard" factor being the negative thought.

I think I'm rambling.
TSZeratoS
post Sep 20 2009, 09:41 PM

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Well said. A entirely different point of view altogether.
TSZeratoS
post Sep 21 2009, 04:22 AM

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QUOTE(kekacang @ Sep 20 2009, 11:14 PM)
Just to want ask a question. How do you all defines creative?

Is creative is like:

a) Leonardo da Vinci, a painter and many2 things, he also invent scissors?
b) Einstein guys? Know theory, and the one that superficial thoughts?
c) A man that creative, where they know how to survive?

If we could see, creative is practically seen or not?
*
All of the above are applicable. Creative could be a myriad of things, from just being different to think of more interesting ways to overcome a dilemma. In essense, to be creative is to not follow the stereotypical norm set by society. A key point lies with the word difference, though different may not always mean good. Creative thought could be in the form of a man using nothing but a fork and a peanut to escape from a desert island, as far-fetched as that may sound. How many people could think it viable? Certainly not the masses.

No creative is such that we cannot see it. We can feel it, and agree that a person is creative if you want to call that visual presence.

Also, to the earlier debate, people flourish when they have their needs tended to, from an art and cultural standpoint. To be comfortable already, they seek alternative means to consuming their time in a productive manner. In periods of strife, I think we will see a rather stark contrast in what we define creativity, as people are forced to think of various ways to survive. Both sides have their points no? It boils down to how we view the subject matter.

Add;
QUOTE(silverhawk @ Sep 20 2009, 10:09 PM)
Actually, the easier life is, the more time you have to think. Suffering simply expands your perspectives and gives you more material, it doesn't make you more creative. Many who suffer are not creative at all. The problem is that priorities are not on thinking, but on self gratification. Being a leech of resource rather than using society's resources to give something back in return.
*
And to quote silverhawk's statement, I don't disagree with it. However, how many people actually make use of that opportunity to think? Certainly the minority does so, as per the myriad of intelligent people debating here. Though I must say the computer and the idiot box (ala TV) contribute towards the degeneration of intelligent thought. Entertainment is readily available yes, but if you have no form of entertainment available, you would certainly think of ways to cure the boredom.

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Sep 21 2009, 04:29 AM
TSZeratoS
post Sep 21 2009, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(convivencia @ Sep 21 2009, 05:36 PM)
in the case for China, it's the burdening custom that hindered the development of science and technology

there's a Chinese saying --- don't stick your neck up

and then there's the Confucius thinking --- one has to obey their superior with utmost respect

combine the two, we got a stagnant culture in China, and they end up wasting 3000 years out of their 5000 years history
*
Then the vein of thought is skewered. Obey does not mean to lose all form of intelligent thought, i.e : to question in one's head when the motives or directives are not all for the better. Depending on how the individual interprets the ideal, it could be very retardard or completely otherwise since it doesn't hinder us from asking superiors for knowledge (or, perhaps why method so-and-so was chosen).

I really feel like I am rambling these days.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Sep 21 2009, 07:07 PM)
A FULL pot cannot receive any more water.  You have to empty the pot first.
*
Hey! This was in the book I read. Very true, since if you do not openly consider other ideas, you will never progress. One-track mindedness never lead to progress in any form.

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Sep 21 2009, 07:12 PM
TSZeratoS
post Sep 28 2009, 02:32 AM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Sep 26 2009, 03:06 PM)
If I made it aware to you, and you're dismissing it, aren't YOU the one thinking in the box?
*
The box is a lie. ohmy.gif

You throw out a good point there. Maybe the good Lord up there ran out of L sized boxes and decided to gift the less fortunate ones with rather bigger "assets" -cough-. Always had the misconception that anything one can do is equally possible for another.


TSZeratoS
post Sep 28 2009, 02:51 PM

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Which is why we are discussing something ambiguous. Nothing is set in stone.
TSZeratoS
post Oct 1 2009, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(kingster113 @ Oct 1 2009, 03:47 PM)
Yes, exactly. Our times we could make anything into toys, Lego's the best. What are kids playing nowadays? Maybe that would answer why kids today have so little in their minds.
*
Quoted for the great truth! I miss my lego, but unfortunately they've gone missing. I'm pretty sure I had at least RM3000 worth of lego there..
TSZeratoS
post Oct 9 2009, 03:16 AM

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QUOTE(4Atulan @ Oct 8 2009, 12:52 PM)
Whether society accepts creativity, it's there. It's always there, in one form or another.

Creativity can be used in arts, or in military, or even in crime.

Put it in another way, if the society doesn't accept creativity "legally", creativity will then be channeled to boost illegal activities
*
It exists, but does society squash it or nurture it. Here, in most cases its being squashed. When was the last time your biology teacher encouraged you to explore more on the subject and ask different questions?
TSZeratoS
post Oct 9 2009, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Oct 9 2009, 06:23 PM)
exactly.

but interestingly, in school we were taught that the more beautiful a painting we produce, the "higher" our creativity is valued. that is inaccurate, as creativity should be valued on the process of making.

for example, the simplest sense of creativity is on problem solving. lets say ur teacher gives u a problem: how to throw an egg from the 3rd floor without breaking it? so u and ur friends start to conjure up solutions creatively. i'll show u some solutions people usually come up, from the simplest to the more complex and finally to the most elegant:

i. bundle the egg in a huge amount of bubble-wrap to cushion the fall.
ii. increase air drag by parachuting the egg down.
iii. suspend the egg in a collapsible frame to absorb impact.

(can u see that the solutions are becoming more elaborate and creative? and finally...)

iv. stand on the 3rd floor, throw the egg slowly up and catch it back.

does the no. iv solution makes sense to u? biggrin.gif
*
Actually it does, Solution IV is the ability to view something from an altogether different perspective. The problem posed said throw an egg FROM the 3rd floor. It did not mention in WHICH direction. Stereotypical thinking assumes that throwing an egg from x floor means it must go down, but have they ever contemplated of throwing it up? Sideways? No, people don't think like that anymore I am afraid.

It is the same as the question posed at the beginning.

What is ? < A question mark.

Can it be half a lightbulb? An inverse hook? Depends on how you view it wink.gif

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Oct 9 2009, 09:23 PM
TSZeratoS
post Oct 15 2009, 02:01 AM

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Loved the share silver. Where did you get it, might I inquire?
TSZeratoS
post Nov 1 2009, 03:03 AM

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QUOTE(yltanisaac @ Oct 22 2009, 05:06 PM)
I couldn't agree more.

Basically, franchised companies in Malaysia seem to like reusing ads that from overseas. Dumping them to english/malay/mandarin. It does send out a message how "creative" we have become.
*
That is, after all, the way Malaysians do things. apa pun boleh. Keeping this up only hinders growth, not to mention the current state of ads are beyond ridiculous.
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post Nov 1 2009, 05:44 PM

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Err.."reality TV shows". Not very real and aren't doing anything to cultivate creativity. We might be going slightly offtopic.
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post Nov 15 2009, 04:01 AM

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QUOTE(Blue07 @ Nov 14 2009, 06:54 PM)
I only read through the first couple of pages of this thread. First, I want to say that I agree with what Joey said. Stagnation, to me, is like being in a coma. But that deviates slightly from the topic at hand.

I think the one thing that stands as a hindrance to creativity in this age is instant gratification. Creativity requires imagination and effort. We live in "fast food" times where the main aim is to achieve results (and hence gratification) in the shortest time possible. So while new things are certainly sprouting up, ideas don't get to fully germinate and realise the full potential it could have. It is all about getting what you want with the least effort possible and in many respects, this "stunts" the end product. There is no sense of longevity and therefore, it limits the meaningfulness attributed to it. It will very quickly become obsolete or "so last year" very quickly. It ends up simply as a trend and does not endure. So I think that in that sense, while we can argue that creativity still does exist, it has been stunted to a great extent.
*
Indeed this is what we have discussed in the latter pages, you might want to check on that as they contain some real informative stuff. So we highlight this instant gratification as the bane of creativity, but how does one challenge such a, if I may call it, pest to society? Not when, surely, everything is handed to us on a silver platter! Why, in the past decade or so, who would have heard of using the internet to check for meanings of words?

Certainly not then! We had to use a dictionary (without CTRL+F mind you) and painstakingly search tongue.gif
TSZeratoS
post Nov 17 2009, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(pllx @ Nov 15 2009, 04:21 AM)
To be philosophical, there is no such thing as creativity in Man as all we ever do is improve on what already exists. We have never truly created something for ourselves. Chairs: improvisations of logs and stones. Cloning: improvisation of mitosis. laugh.gif

P.s.: Haven't read through any of the posts yet. Just replying to the topic tongue.gif

EDIT: After reading the first page, i just wonder how you can conclude that the younger generation lacks creativity? I don't believe we have reached the point where our generation impacts the world enough to let our flaws and good traits shine just yet.

What kind of creativity are you looking for? Creativity like Einstein's our Van Gogh's? Mozart or Con artists? Creativity is everywhere from how we devise new methods to cheat in tests to how we struggle to find ourselves & on the way create our own philosophies. Don't you think the rapid development of technology is a sign of creativity? Though i must admit that in the field of literature, things often get repetitive, predictable and utterly boring. Twilight, anyone? Though i must say that twilight does help prepubescent girls spark their creativity in creating their own versions of the oh,so perfect Edward Cullen (I'm sorry, the series simply disgusts me that any intellectual beings could worship it)

I don't believe that our generation is any worse off than the previous generations just because we're more shielded. Though i must say, i envy the days when you could just spend your days lying on a hill to watch the sky. In every generation there will be some who are more creative than others. You probably just haven't met them yet smile.gif
*
Hmm, well. Abstract creativity. Instead of say, tinkering around with things, little kids are more content with playing on the computer (games) or their consoles. Perhaps one could argue that creativity in this age comes in the form of how much mods have developed, be it for the UI of a computer to just about any other program. The thing is, a vast majority of the children these days are complacent. What do you do in school? Study, study, exam, study, exam.

I must profess though, the rapid development in technology is a result of the works of those born prior to the computer-obsessed age. Why, when I got my first computer, Pentium 1 was the epitome of technology. Now the kids play World of Warcraft all day. Is any creative thought involved? I don't think so..
TSZeratoS
post Nov 18 2009, 04:13 AM

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QUOTE(annariana @ Nov 17 2009, 10:24 PM)
I really can't grasp what are you trying to achieve in your first post lol~

Are you saying that we're losing creativity as a result of technology advancement? And you want to know what other causes people nowadays rapidly losing their creativity?

Are you sure we're losing our creativity? We really have to find some shocking statistics to prove that wink.gif Intellectuality keep rising and creativity changes, they don't use old creativity yardstick (is there any?) anymore right?
*
Then by all means please do try and refute the points with an adequate rebuttal. I would love to see your take on the situation. I'm not bothered to reiterate all that was discussed in the past 8 pages, a little reading back would be good.

As mentioned prior, I am reflecting from the viewpoint of a Malaysian citizen in the 21st century, both brought up in a childhood without computers, nor ease of access, having experienced the Malaysian education system as well as those of other countries. (A-levels, SAT comes to mind). The old creative yardstick as you so aptly put it is a clear indication of how well one can think, which is hardly the case with our children these days.

I ask this because, why, my brother is so straight-forward. He cannot think outside the box, cannot view things from another facet. We are discussing with regards to the children born in this age, not those prior to the Y2K. But all the same, if you view this differently then by all means : tell me why.

I don't deny that creativity exists, but as some others have mentioned, its being repressed rather than encouraged. Our education system is a testament to that. If you ask, you will be told to forget about it and focus on your exams.

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Nov 18 2009, 04:36 AM

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