Hi pseudoblue,

I think 4sevens published current is correct, as polkiuj said, 4sevens published the LED current not the battery.
Here my measurement on battery current draw:
My 123^2 draw 450mA on Turbo on 8.43V, which is 0.45x8.43= 3.79Watts, minus the heat and efficiency loss, it will get around 3W LED output

And the LED max according to 4sevens is 990mA, which make sense, as LED usually required around 3V to drive, so 3 x 0.99 = 2.97W, almost 3W output.

So i guess when you use Li-on, it will drive the AA to 3W which is almost max of the R2, while Fenix usually is around 3W also. (In fact my PD30 draw the same amount 450mA too, thats why I guessing the Quark not only same designer, but produced by same factory? )

That is why you get same brightness.

That is why also the AA cannot drive to max brightness (only 90lm) because it will need more than 2000mA (maybe 2500mA) at 1.5V to drive the LED in 3W, which the battery may be too hot and die.

just 1 sen.

I think so, any driver support 0.9V to 4.2V (like the Quark AA) should be a buck-boost driver, because the LED required somewhere around 3V to drive it, so when you are using AA 1.5V, it boost to 3.xV to drive the max, but due to the current limitation of AA and the efficiency of the driver, you will not get the Max lumens.

While when you put a li-on which is 4.2V into it, the driver will buck (limit) the voltage to 3.XV to drive the LED, but since the Li-ion is able to supply enough current without much drop in the voltage, so it draw enough current to drive the LED.

So if your flashlight state its input voltage range is up to (from 0.9 to ) 4.2V, then you will always get brighter output when you use li-on. The Quark AA^2 however does provide almost as bright as the 123^2, this is due to the 2AA (1.5V x2) makes about 3V in total, same goes to 1x123A (3V), it will almost as bright as the 2x123A (6V).

Having said that, a 2x123A will always be a buck-only driver, so it is always in the max.

BTW, the optic in the lens also play important rules in the output, as well as the heat sink design. Therefore, a single 18650 (3.7V) jetbeam RRT-2 can produce a very bright output due to its reflector and heat sink design.

Hi jwyj,

In this case (the Jetbeam RRT-2) , 2xRCR123 will not improve the output anymore, since the single 3.7V 18650 already enough to drive the LED (which required around 3V), so extra higher voltage will not help. (in fact the circuit wasting energy to buck the extra voltage to provide constant current)

In contrast, a 2xRCR123 will reduce the runtime, as a 18650 can easily be a 2000mAH, while a RCR123 will only have 600-800mAH (Total up a serial batteries still get the same mAH), even a 2xCR123 only have the capacity of 1000mA+.

The technical spec of the Jetbeam further confirm this:
High Mode
Using 2*CR123 batteries: 240 Lumens, 2 Hours
Using 2*16340 batteries: 240 Lumens, 1 Hour
Using 1*18650 battery: 240 Lumens, 3 Hours

the single 18650 wins in the run time, while provide same level of output.

But in a single CR123A flashlight, a 3.7V li-ion battery (RCR123) will always boost the output, light become very bright. Like the Fenix P2D, you will loose all the low mode. , so you will have to buy the 3V RCR123 (lifePo4).

But I have an Ultrafire WF-602C, which gives a very outstanding output when using the RCR123 3.7 instead of the 3V CR123A, it is as bright as the Fenix P3D, but it will get hot in minutes.

PS: In one of my test, I burnt my Fenix P3D when in turbo (burnt mark in the LED), while the cheapo Ultrafire WF-602C survived.

PPS : After some intense rescue, the Fenix P3D revived after 2 days in ICU. Only now it is abit yellowish in the beam, everything else is ok. So it is good night light now.

The P3D i bought it from Hong Kong, so I guess I don't want to send it back, it is over 1 year anyway. Actually kinda like the yellowish tint, at least no 1 has it, still very bright actually, it is cool.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification, yes, for the Jetbeam RRT2, it has a best run time on the 18650, other configuration (eg 2xCR123) does not increase the lumens output.

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 3 2009, 05:16 PM

Thanks dude. Have a nice day, ooo, it is getting dark now, it is time to take out the flashlights. (use the Quark AA^2 to drive home joking)

---

Added on September 3, 2009, 6:01 pmHey guys, just want to ask, you guys lube your O-ring?
I am using a transparent silicon lube, bought from a scuba dive equipment shop. I really had a hard time to find this lube.

Q:What you guys use and when you get it from?

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 3 2009, 06:01 PM

You guys have very different lube, all I got is the clear/transparent silicone lube, it was use to apply for the scuba diving equipment. I use it because it was recommend to use silicone base lube by the flashlight manual. Don't know it is good or not, but it was, and no odor/smell , and easy to wash off (on your hand).

old newspaper, actually it is just an activities for us to play with the flashlight when we lube it. Basically it just prolong the life of the O-ring, nothing more I think, so it will be seal and water proof. But you can always get some replacement O-ring as spare parts.

polkiuj: Using grease in the tread is good idea also hor, what are you use for the job? what brand and where you buy it? I really like the feel of a smooth tread when twisty it, like the EagleTac you have (and the Aurora P7 of mine).

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 4 2009, 10:21 AM

Hi Damonlbs, too bad the LD10 does not support the 14500 Lithium well ( will lose the low mode like P2D) or else it is a good choice.

Btw, I notice the Quark HA-III finishing is quite easily chip off. I had 2 drop test (haha aka accidentally drop), my 123^2 got several chip. 3 Very large in near the lens, 1 at the tail . Not sure is only mine or what. the 1st drop test (erhmm) was very light/gentle, but still got a chip in the side of the body. My fenix survive these kind of test without a scratch, but not this 123^2.

Anyway, it is a very good light, the light still work perfectly, i love the warm tint, and the moon-mood suit be perfectly at night.

Hi Bro pseudoblue,

both drop test (hahaha) was landed on ceramic tile, so it is smooth and flat. 1st time was about 3' and the 2nd one is 5'. I will should you when we have chance to go McD in Summit like the other day.

BTW, I loved the photo you post the Optimus with the Fenixies, great photo and creative one! Bravo!

Enjoy the flashlight, really envy!

btw, where you order it?

Hi, to get good quality but affordable flashlight, try Dealextreme. I got my Xenon incans from them, it is a decent flashlight, but uses Philips Xenon Bulb 20W, it draw about 3.5A from the battery, and throw like crazy. Though the buld only rated at 600lm, due to the warm tint, the colour rendition makes it perfect like in the jungle, you can see things easily in the dark. In my test, it has better vision than my P7 rated at 900lm.

The Xenon flashlight I bought is this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10855
I did not buy the common Ultrafire, because it only has 500lm, and the Conqueror has a 600lm Philips bulb, plus can you choose to use either 1 18650 or 2. Oh, not protected li-ion, it is too powerful for protected batteries. And it is really small, just about 8.31 in in length.

Have a nice trip.

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 11 2009, 11:44 PM

I did not have chance to test the run time, but there are some claim it has about 45min on 2x18650 (2400mAH), which is mathematically right, because it draw more than 3A, so it need 2x18650 3000mAH batteries to last for 1 hour.

If you want to have longer run time and bulb life, take out the extension tube, so use 1x18650 and dimmer. It will last longer. I just did a test, it draw 2.3A from the battery in this configuration. So it last 1 hour for 1 battery, total of 2x18650 will get you 2 hour burn time.
(And yes, it can be configure to use 1x18650, and : 2xRCR123 or 2xCR123A in this short body)
Btw, 2xRCR123 is not recommended, because the battery heat up too fast in 3A and short burn time
one more thing, the AW protected I don't think can work. It required unprotected li-ion cell ! (Oh, you are right, I don't have any protected cell either)

Heat up, yes, pretty quick. But it is manageable, not so hot to the touch. Anyway, so far the best thrower I have, better than all my LED , even the SSC P7. It is good in outdoor/jungle/misty.

Have fun. Oh yeah, like Bro pseudoblue said, it take less than a week to reach here, typical air mail is 4-5 days from HK to your door, exclude holiday. But the ordering and packing sometimes take 1 week +
(They don't keep all goods in stock, they backorder sometimes, and it takes 2-5 days, and packing take another 2-3 days recently)

Can pay using paypal, and you can cancel the order anytime before they pack it, then you get a refund. Since shipping is free, you can order each item in separated order, so it will ship what ever goods available. Any order over USD$15 will be registered airmail (recommended for safer and speedier post in malaysia)

Bro pseudoblue, the battery deal in Dealextreme is really good deal (haha, so many deal), charger also fairly cheap. Just make sure read the review and forum before order, to choose which is best. Oh, let me know b4 you order, I can double confirm for you, because some photo and spec are not so correct.

Having flashlighing!


This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 12 2009, 10:53 AM

Yes, I received it already. The order took about 2 weeks, 1 week for the stocking and packing and another week for the airmail (due to the holiday on last monday).

It is bright, though it is hard to compare with a LED (say SSC P7), some says it is the Xenon brighter, some says it is the 900lm P7 brighter, it is really depend of individual (Tested in my office). But when in the jungle at night, the Xenon seems has a upper hand. The Xenon yellowish colour rendition really good in the dark.

The light is actually quite small, it is easy to hold in the hand.

I looks good to me too, and it is SF compatible, and I like Xenon module add on, haha, just contacted Philightsophy, see when he can get these, and where your plan to get one? from official HK site? Hope Philightsophy can get in fast, or else have to order from HK already.


polkiuj: Haha, I actually like the look of it even prettier than the SF E2DL Defender.

Hi, I am interested in the "Seraph SP-6, 2 Cell Modular Flashlight (LED, 3 Mode)", just wonder can I choose to have a warmer tint like the " D26-LED 3 Mode (Low-Mid-High, Memory) LED Module (6V-13V)"??

And If I want to add a Xenon option for the SP-6 , 2 Cell, which module I should take, 6V or 9V if I use rechargeable Li-ion 3.7Vx2 ??

Oh, it looks like besides the EagleTac T20C2 RGB Kit, Neutral White, I will order the LF Seraph from you too. Ha ha, pity my wallet.

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 14 2009, 02:13 PM

I pray for you!

btw, polkiuj told me once if it was declared as Torch (instead of flashlight), the custom tax is waved and only the sales tax 10% is charge.

But that how things go, they go by the book they referring (custom tax code), which refer to how much to tax. The Torchlight and flashlight has a different of 30%, according to polkiuj. Having said that, the fellow who print the code of tax, does not see Torchlight and flashlight is the same thing.

You little evil, following this thread will make me broke

it is lovely , but it is CR2 battery.

I don't own TK20, but I have others AA like L2D, Quark AA^2, there all take 1.2V well. 1.7V should be no problem also, after all , when on load, all should pull down to lower than 1.5V.

Yes, Alkaline batteries almost guarantee to leak if you leave it for long time, be it Energizer or other brand, it is only good if you use it and replace it frequently. Rechargeable NiMH seems to be better in terms of the leakage (So far non of my NiMH leak before, and I had too many incident of leaking Alkaline that ruined my stuffs).

Lithium e2 should be ok, but if you really want to leave it long for emergency use, like in the house or the car, why not use CR123A Lithium, it has 10 years shelf life, should be a good backup light for emergency. And it should have more energy than the AA, hence run longer.

Over discharge, you mean like use it below the 2.7V for Lithium?
Yes, NiMh cutoff voltage should be 0.8-0.9V when on load, if no load or light load (like clock), it should be 1.1V. But so far no NiMH battery comes with this kind of features that I know locally. Some LED head does cut off AA at 0.9V, but TK20 never mentioned that.

Sometimes the term risk is misleading, the "risk" here is merely for the risk of destroying the NiMh/Li-ion, not the device or the property/health of the user.

Like the Protected li-ion, the main meaning of the protected is the li-ion is protected from overcharge, overdischarge and possible over current (it is actually not fool proof, and it is not really short circuit either, but somehow it protect the li-ion from over-current discharge). ((Haha damonlbs, still owe you a complete write up on this issue, will complete it soon, when I get the time))

So it is protecting the li-ion. not you haha Having said that, using AA or li-ion has the same kind of risk of fire/explosion.


In short, I like the natural white LED, but if you use it frequently it is ok. to keep it for long, don't use Alkaline, the advertised D****cell is the worst of leaking for prolong of storage. Lithium or NiMH is the way to go, but NiMH will selfdischarge over time, not good either. Lithium AA, expensive!

Get a CR123A like PD20/PD30, it is smaller, brighter and can store up to 10 years. Ideal for emergency / backup light.

Just my 0.9 sen. Have a nice day

This post has been edited by susuman: Sep 16 2009, 09:58 AM

Hi All,

for the flashaholic, if you happen to carry extra battery and worried it short-circuit, here my selfbuilt solution, using PVC pipe and end cap. It is cheap and easily available from your local hardware store.

The picture shown are using 3/4", which is suitable for RC123A/RCR123/18650, you can also use 1/2" for AA/AAA/CR123A.

Have a nice day.

ps: the long version is for 2x18650, short one is 1x18650 or 1xRCR123, you can have it any size/configuration suit you.


Attached image(s)

Hi Gwen, just like to know, did the customer mention how the explosion like, in terms of which part of the battery exploded.

It could be the protected PCB at the bottom, or the battery tube/body, or the gas venting vented the valve, etc. Does it catch fire, or did it burnt the charger?

Because if the battery was exploded immediately after he start charge it, it could be the PCB that burnt, due to the wrap (short circuit), or the PCB or reversed putting in the battery.

BTW, did he use the protected or unprotected cell?

Anyway, using lithium battery is no joke, have to handle with extreme care, remember the famous explosion of a Pelikan is a su**fire lithium.

I am just conduction some research and findings, for the Myth of using Lithium Cell, so if you could feedback on this, it will help me a lot. Thanks.