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 Samsung Plasma Series 6 650 50inch (PS50B650S1R), Discuss this new plasma tv here.

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anfieldude
post Aug 4 2009, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 4 2009, 10:12 PM)
Update:
Those running htpc to be extra cautious during early panel hours
as slight retention mark would come in on still image even for time like 10+ seconds tho those 'mark' are temporary... sweat.gif
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ronaldjoe,

Image retention is a definate problem with 2009 Sammys. Pls take the necessary caution.
anfieldude
post Aug 4 2009, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(lightning69 @ Aug 4 2009, 11:30 PM)
That is the major problem with plasma tv especially LG and Samsung.  I think panasonic plasma don't have this problem.
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Actually panny plasma's also have this, its just not as bad. LG and Sammys are slightly worse. Panny's recover faster, sammy and lg takes a little longer. Phospor residue....Some people do not like to hear this, but Pioneer does fare very well in this regard.
anfieldude
post Aug 5 2009, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(tewwyble @ Aug 5 2009, 08:55 AM)
Cons on this unit...

- BUZZING freaking annoys me. If you have a small apartment like mine, the buzzing is really bad.

- Not as bright as LCDs. Somehow brightness during daylight looks faded. Especially fullscreen whites looks like grey.

- Screen flicker on bright spots/areas. Worst when PC mode.

- Hot.

- Astro PQ looks blurred. No problems with DVD or HD but Astro on 50' 1080p is too much. Better to stick to 720p plasmas  where the upscaling do not need to stretch so much.

All the above problems I believe are inherit in Plasma technologies in general.

Now the good:
- Black levels
- Color accuracy

Both I can never tune it to match the Plasma compared to LCD. Typical LCD color accuracy and black levels are off.

I actually turn off all artificial processing to get the best results. No Dark enhancements, dynamic contrast, no sharpness, etc.

Avoid this if you watch Astro most of the time. This plasma only make justice on higher resolution feeds (DVD and above)...
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Is this your 1st plasma? How many hours has it been running?

Plasma phospours take time to mature. It will become less blurred as time goes. Typically after the 100hr mark. Astro shd be better defined than LCD.

Fullscreen whites should never look grey. I believe it is some setting that you have not optimized. Fullscreen white will not be as bright as a LCD due to the nature of plasmas APL but it shd never look grey.

Screen flicker will reduce as the phospors age.

I have seen Astro on Full HD plasmas and they look very good. Give it time. On fast moving objects, it shd be much better than LCDs due to its refresh rates. There shd also be less macroblocking.

What are you trying to tune? LCD accuracy in terms of which parameter?

Samsung is supposed to be pretty good with SD broadcasts, better than Panny in this regard.

For Astro you might want to turn on some of the NR as the broadcasts is pretty crappy.

Pls let me know what you are looking for and maybe I can help.
anfieldude
post Aug 5 2009, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(enrg @ Aug 5 2009, 10:03 AM)
@ronaldjoe

You seem to be happy with the Samsung B650, but why do you say the Panny V will be better? Any experience with it?

From what I read, the V should be no different than the G except for the THX Mode. But that would be useless anyway as the G in asia has more adjustable pro options for calibration.
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THX mode gets the primary colours spot on. Even the secondaries are almost accurate. I believe only magenta is off. The Z series fixes that.

Even though Panny sets have greyscale calibration options they do not have a CMS. No amount of tweaking can fix the problems with the colours on the Panny. THX mode is the best bet.
anfieldude
post Aug 5 2009, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(tewwyble @ Aug 5 2009, 11:09 AM)
Yes it is. It's fine during low lighting situations (after 6pm). Daylight watching seems dimmer.

Fullscreen whites should never look grey. I believe it is some setting that you have not optimized. Fullscreen white will not be as bright as a LCD due to the nature of plasmas APL but it shd never look grey.

I would say dim. Somehow i suspect it's dynamic contrast. Here's how i test. I use PC HDMI as source so i can control.
> 1st test picture, 100% white. Screen dims, whites becomes greyish.
> 2nd test picture, 50% white, 50%. The whites becomes whiter.
> 3rd test picture, 10% white, 90% mix color. perfect whites.

No changes in TV settings. Just different type of picture. Even easier to see the effect of dimming when i drag a white window around the screen. When it fills up 100% of the screen, the white becomes grey. Can see the dynamic contrast ratio (or dimming) adjusting itself.

I have turn off all enhancements. May try to put on Game mode and let you guys know the result.
Hope it does!
No complains on fast moving pictures at all. No ghosting whatsoever. Again, easiest to test by dragging window. However, horizontal bleeding seems to be a major problem. Eg, scrolling text / credits will exhibit image bleeding. That annoying as well.
The disappointments i have with this set is below:
- Scrolling bleed
- Buzzing
- Astro PQ
- 100Hz only works for 50Hz input. It will not optimize HTPC movies channeled via HDMI. The signal must be in 50Hz or 1080p/24Hz to take advantage of the cinema smooth function.

The likes i have:
- DLNA (even plays MKVs)
- Price / size ratio
- Color accuracy and black levels
- Thin (surprising for a plasma)

However, i don't think i can get a 50' LCD within the same price range with the blacks and color accuracy
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The screen dims when it displays a 100% white screen is the nature of plasmas. I don't think this will be a problem with actual content.
The power supplies are very high voltage, to display a full 100% white screen will cause the power supply to overload, hence the APL (Automatic Peak Limiter), this limits the supply to the power supply thus dimming the screen intensity. This will not happen in real life since there will always be some other colours/shadow in pictures. You will not see this in real life movies. If you are seeing it, there is an enchancement that is causing this.

Plasmas shd be calibrated with window screens. Bleeding is a non issue, there is some setting that is not optimized.

Buzzing, some plasmas do buzz, check and see if you move the plasma a little, there might be some resonance, if it is too high, ask them to come and check, it might be a power supply issue.

100Hz is meant to only work on 50Hz material only, there shd be no other use for 100Hz. HPTC is normally transmitting at 60Hz, you cannot use 100Hz for that since it is not a multiple. 60Hz material shd not judder anyway unless the source has a weird cadence.
Astro PQ, give it some time.
anfieldude
post Aug 5 2009, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 5 2009, 11:01 PM)
The curtain is just thick enough that it can block sunlight and make the room dark  biggrin.gif
A re-post...this pic was taken around 6pm on first day of delivery:
(You can still see sunlight at the edge of curtain)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Most plasmas have some sort of anti reflective coating on the glass, it really should not be so bad until u need to close everything. You will get used to it.


anfieldude
post Aug 12 2009, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 12 2009, 09:35 AM)
If twice the price, I would get 2 x S10 instead....  rclxms.gif
S10 have green tint, inaccurate colour issue.
S10 is still a bit grey-ish in normal room
S10 is only slightly inferior to B650 in dark room.
Personally I still like B650 more for the price that I get it.
I still 'feel' that V series is coming  drool.gif  (if you can wait)
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ronaldjoe,
The green tint can be calibrated out.
anfieldude
post Aug 12 2009, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 12 2009, 10:20 AM)
Don't have a chance to see your skills yet  rclxms.gif


Added on August 12, 2009, 10:21 am
To my peasant's eyes, B series LCD (series 6 above) are 'black' as well (just a bit reflective)
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Post Calibration the only way LCDs that can match the plasmas would be the LED backlighting ones. They will show close to equivalent black levels on test patterns but on real movies the black levels will be worse.
anfieldude
post Aug 13 2009, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 12 2009, 03:21 PM)
What about LED TV vs Panny S10k grey grey color one? biggrin.gif
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I am quite confused with the statements that S10 is grey when showing black. I have calibrated a S10 and can confirm that the black is indeed black.
anfieldude
post Aug 13 2009, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 13 2009, 10:10 AM)
In that case I don't see any strong reasons to get the B650 instead of the S10 then. What's your view on this Bro Anfieldude?
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The one reason would be better colour accuracy of the Sammy plasmas due to the CMS.


Added on August 13, 2009, 12:00 pm
QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 13 2009, 10:13 AM)
In bright room, S10 is grey.
In dark room, S10 is black.
Come to KL to see it  brows.gif
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ronaldjoe,

The correct way is to have 2 sets of adjustments. During the day, since the ambient light is higher, the gamma of the set needs to be adjusted to be lower. That way you will get better shadow details and picture quality.

During a night in a dimly lit environment, u shd have a different set of adjustments with lower gamma for better blacks and shadow details.

That is why ISF has always recommended 2 sets of settings, ISFday and ISFnight.

Same applies to LCDs as well.

The workaround is to have something in between. But it is not optimal.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Aug 13 2009, 12:00 PM
anfieldude
post Aug 13 2009, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(enrg @ Aug 13 2009, 12:30 PM)
@ ronaldjoe

But even then you mentioned that B650 goes blacker at night than S10, is this correct?

@ anfieldude

I thought you cant adjust gamma for the S10?
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I was not talking abt S10 in particular, I was explaining the differences between night time and day time viewing.

There are other ways to compensate gamma indirectly. The S10 has limited controls.

The B650 has gamma controls.
anfieldude
post Aug 13 2009, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(WereWolf84 @ Aug 13 2009, 01:21 PM)
So overall, which one better? B650 or S10? hmm.gif
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I am sorry as I said earlier, I have not viewed or calibrated a B650 to make the comparison.


Added on August 13, 2009, 1:29 pm
QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 13 2009, 12:07 PM)
Does S10k have the capability to store 2 user presets? ie 1 for day and 1 for night...
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No. But I believe neither does the Sammy. Unless u calibrate it thru 2 different modes (ie movie, user). The problem is that the gamma curves are different in each one so it is not a good way. The sets that I know allow for the separate user presets are Pioneer and higher end LG that has the expert mode.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Aug 13 2009, 02:41 PM
anfieldude
post Aug 18 2009, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Aug 18 2009, 08:36 PM)
TV off
On the remote control, [info], [menu], [mute], [power]...
Then the rest is on you, as different model has different GUI.
I got mine fr Best Denki.
If not for the warranty, I would have gotten it from Chinaman shop which is much cheaper.


Added on August 18, 2009, 8:40 pmThanks. I was able to check panel hours finally.
It's hiding inside the menu... It's only 58 hours.
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Cool, do PM me where u found it for my reference.
anfieldude
post Aug 18 2009, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(foxx3001 @ Aug 18 2009, 09:11 PM)
why PM????, care to post it here...... sharing is caring maaaaaaa
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I do not want to encourage people to go into the service menu. If u do change something by accident and it causes problems it is something that shd be avoided.
anfieldude
post Aug 25 2009, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(enrg @ Aug 25 2009, 09:40 AM)
Just found out why blacks are washed out. Its the darn Cinema Smooth glitch, which also reported in US models.

When I changed back film mode to Off, blacks are good. Though of course not Kuro levels.

I am happy though.

This also happens for B650?
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I believe I read somewhere that you can disable it in the Service menu. Same as the auto dimming feature on the LED backlit LCDs.
anfieldude
post Aug 25 2009, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(enrg @ Aug 25 2009, 11:52 AM)
@ronaldjoe

Yours is black in dim lighting or bright lighting? In bright lighting yes black is black.

But I dont think that any plasma can be full black in dim lighting, even the Kuros cannot give perfect black.

My perception is that the B Plasmas have dark grey black in dim lighting. better than most conventional LCDs, but still far from perfect (with film mode at off, not cinema smooth :-)).

I also turned all advanced settings off.

Does the pixel shift affect black? And which settings do you mean we can adjust black level?


Added on August 25, 2009, 11:55 am@anfieldude

To tell you the truth, I do not see any differences having the film mode at off or Cinema Smooth, so no big deal I will leave it off rather than going to service menu and mess something up.

Anyway you are right, colors are amazing in the Samsung B plasmas
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The correct way to view is to view in a dim environment with light behind the display (known as bias lighting) for fixed panel displays. Even without this, the blacks shd be black on a dim environment. 9G Kuros are pretty black...
anfieldude
post Aug 25 2009, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 25 2009, 12:00 PM)
bro anfieldude... heard someone quietly took delivery of a monster KRP600M a few days ago??? brows.gif
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Not quite yet.....
anfieldude
post Sep 18 2009, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Sep 18 2009, 02:05 PM)
Just came back from QBM. The plasmas are already on display. They setup a mini Sammy roadshow outside Guess. Here's my super short FR based on my 30 minute viewing for both PS50B550 and PS50B650

- 650 has a little better AR coating. However, the difference is very very minute and virtually indistinguishable when watching movies. (Same source) When fully off, the 650 has a purple tint on the glass. The 550 also has this purple tint, but it is less. I don't have a side by side comparison, but I think the reflection on the 550 is similar to Panny S10.

- 650 has these which are not available for 550: Ultra FilterBright (vs FilterBright), 100Hz Motion Plus (vs 100Hz) and WCE3 (vs WCE2). HOWEVER, those make no difference to me at all when watching movie. I have to admit though skin tones on the 650 is slightly more natural, but I am confident that can be achieved as well on the 550.

- Didn't test the media capabilities on the 650 as I was not interested in it. Alan demoed it for 5 mins, until got error message on one of those MKV unsupported file. I told him to switch back to the Sammy demo BD so I could do side by side comparion. laugh.gif

- I put my ear next to both the plasmas and cannot hear any buzzing sound. Granted, it was quite noisy over there, so I could be wrong. I forgot to test for the buzz during power on for the plasmas though. Can anyone test those and get back on this? Thanks.

- Price wise, RM6299 for 650 and RM5499 for 550. Free HDMI cable only with 2 year warranty.

The roadshow will be there until Monday. Alan said they will move it up once the roadshow is over, but not sure if the 650 and 550 will be placed side by side for comparison. They could also box it up if no space available. sweat.gif

END OF FR.
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chewkl,

Does the 550 have the full CMS and the white balance/greyscale adjustments in the user menu, if it does, then u can calibrate out the skin tone differences. However, the fact that they use 2 different filters tell me that post calibration the 650 will probably have slightly better black levels compared to the 550. This is the "premium" the insert on the higher end models.
anfieldude
post Sep 18 2009, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Sep 18 2009, 02:52 PM)
Bro Anfieldude, the 550 user manual:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/...-00Eng_0317.pdf

Do U mind to take a look and see if those "professional settings" are in the CMS? TQ.

biggrin.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
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chewkl,

Greyscale adjustment available but no CMS. So it is a stripped down version of the 650. I believe the 650 has a full CMS.
anfieldude
post Sep 18 2009, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Sep 18 2009, 03:25 PM)
Bro Anfieldude, wouldn't U be able to calibrate via the service menu if there is no full CMS?

Anyways, here's the user manual for 650:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/...-00Eng_0415.pdf

Page 16, everything is the same as 550 except the below:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
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chewkl,

I have to get into the service menu and see if the CMS adjustments (Colour Space Custom) is available and that all 6 channels (RGBCYM) are avail for adjustments. But I highly doubt it since the firmwares will be different and the CMS portion would not be there.

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