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Philosophy I think, therefore i EARN, ONly in 1st class minded's country

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TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 07:44 AM, updated 17y ago

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"A degree in philosophy? What are you going to do with that then?"

Philosophy students will tell you they've been asked this question more times than they care to remember.

"The response people seem to want is a cheery shrug and a jokey 'don't know'," says Joe Cunningham, 20, a final-year philosophy undergraduate at Heythrop College, University of London.

A more accurate comeback, according to the latest statistics, is "just about anything I want".

Figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency show philosophy graduates, once derided as unemployable layabouts, are in growing demand from employers. The number of all graduates in full-time and part-time work six months after graduation has risen by 9% between 2002-03 and 2005-06; for philosophy graduates it has gone up by 13%.

It is in the fields of finance, property development, health, social work and the nebulous category of "business" that those versed in Plato and Kant are most sought after. In "business", property development, renting and research, 76% more philosophy graduates were employed in 2005-06 than in 2002-03. In health and social work, 9% more.

The Higher Education Careers Services Unit (Hecsu), which also collates data of this kind, agrees philosophers are finding it easier to secure work. Its figures show that, in 2001, 9.9% of philosophy graduates were unemployed six months after graduation. In 2006, just 6.7% were. On average, 6% of all graduates were unemployed six months after graduation.

In 2001, 9.3% of philosophy graduates were in business and finance roles six months after graduation. In 2006, 12.2% were. In 2001, 5.3% were in marketing and advertising six months after graduation. In 2006, 7.3% were.

It is particularly significant that the percentage finding full-time work six months after graduation has risen, since the number of philosophy graduates has more than doubled between 2001 and 2006. In 2001, UK universities produced 895 graduates with a first degree in the discipline; in 2006, they produced 2,040.

And it is so popular with its graduates that many go on to postgraduate study rather than join the workforce. Charlie Ball, who runs Hecsu's labour market analysis, says: "More philosophy graduates are being produced, and they are much less likely to be unemployed than five years ago."

Philosophers have always come in handy in the workplace with their grounding in analytical thinking. Why, only now, are they so prized by employers?

Open mind

Lucy Adams, human resources director of Serco, a services business and a consultancy firm, says: "Philosophy lies at the heart of our approach to recruiting and developing our leadership, and our leaders. We need people who have the ability to look for different approaches and take an open mind to issues. These skills are promoted by philosophical approaches."

Fiona Czerniawska, director of the Management Consultancies Association's think tank, says: "A philosophy degree has trained the individual's brain and given them the ability to provide management-consulting firms with the sort of skills that they require and clients demand. These skills can include the ability to be very analytical, provide clear and innovative thinking, and question assumptions."

Deborah Bowman, associate dean for widening participation at St George's, University of London, which offers medicine and health sciences courses, says philosophers are increasingly sought after by the NHS: "Graduates of philosophy who come in to graduate-entry medicine, or to nursing courses, are very useful. Growth areas in the NHS include clinical ethicists, who assist doctors and nurses. Medical ethics committees and ethics training courses for staff are also growing. More and more people are needed to comment on moral issues in healthcare, such as abortion."

Being on an ethics committee of the NHS is something Cunningham is looking into. "It would be a direct application of my skills," he says.

The popular philosopher Simon Blackburn, a professor at Cambridge University, sees the improving career prospects of philosophy graduates as part of a wider change of public perception. "I guess the public image of a philosopher has tended to concentrate on an ancient Greek in a toga, or some unwashed hippy lying around not doing very much," he says. "I do detect a change in the way the public sees philosophers. I have been pleasantly surprised by the number of people who come to philosophy events nowadays."

Blackburn can take some credit. The user-friendly books on philosophy that he and other philosophers such as AC Grayling, Stephen Law, Julian Baggini, Nigel Warburton and Alain de Botton write have made their way into the mainstream.

Course design

Those in charge of designing university courses have also become sensitive to claims that their subject has no relevance to the modern day.

Blackburn says: "In the years after the second world war, there was a sort of Wittgensteinian air about philosophy, which meant practitioners were proud of the fact that they appeared slightly esoteric and were not doing anything practical. There was very little political philosophy, and moral philosophy was disengaged from people's actual moral problems, and that did lead to the subject being marginalised. That has changed. Political philosophy is a central part of the Cambridge course."

Jonathan Lowe, professor of philosophy at Durham University, agrees that courses' concern with the real world has accelerated in the past five years.

"It's probably because of the new financial arrangements for students that courses have had to prove they are applicable to real world issues," he says. "And the teaching methods have changed. There are more student-led sessions. Students have to argue on their feet and give presentations. That probably shows at interviews."

News that employers and the public hold philosophers in higher regard should presumably be cause for celebration? Not entirely, says Blackburn. "It is also slightly worrying, because people turn to philosophers when they feel less confident and more insecure."

TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 3 2009, 08:54 AM)
communist892003,

I assume that you are SOMEHOW related to PHILOSOPHY.  How about doing some ORIGINAL THINKING???  Isn't this what a PHILOSOPHY person supposed to??

A) You do not POST a whole article from some where without commenting it.  So, you have to COMMENT on this article.

B) You are obviously copy and pasting this article from somewhere.  So, you SUPPOSED to post the original URL of where it came from.  Or else, it is PLAGIARISM.  You need to show the source.

If you are the EXAMPLE of Philosophy major people that we have, you are OBVIOUSLY not very good in THINKING.

THINK for a change.  You supposed to learn how to do that.

Dreamer
*
I wan to let ppl comment on it 1st ...see ppl reaction....I am 20 years old boy who didnt did well in school...Who day dream all the time in school...and what i dreamed or thinked is always related to philosophy, i wan to pursue philosophy....IN school, although i am poor student, i always had my own theory(anything), and i always need to lie about it whose theory it belong...because by then ppl will believe and accepted my theory...or else ppl would just ask where u read it from or said it is all crap....DAMN.....I fall in love with philosophy the day i discovered it...is like obsession or addiction...However, philosophy is such a course that not welcome in this country...PPL tend to had degree which is practical...i just hope this article can change the way we think about philosophy...The absolute defination of our education is investment of financial security, therefore we had been force to learn what to think, what to do rather than how....I always wonder Man is superior because of discovery knowledge or installment of knowledge??

I will comment and tell what i think after the reaction i get from ppl about this article...and the purpose behind all this
TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 10:38 AM

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Ethics philosophy...interesting...I think u dont really understand philosophy...As i know, there is only two uni offer philosophy major in malaysia...Well, ethics or islamic study...tats all

And u can read all the things about philosophy, but if u truly wan to pursue it, u need PPL...PPL who interested in philosophy...Discussion is the book in philosophy my dear...what make philosophy possible and alive...And about online study, of coz i did ...but not taken as degree...LOL...I post this article hoping that it could somehow change the mindset of Malaysian toward philosophy....

If i love something, of coz no one can stop me...but do u think u can create a choice??make it happened??? It is stupid to think so...i prefer to overcome it if left with no choice
Watching long series of lecture make u a great philosopher???LOL...tell a modern philosopher and u get a laugh from them...But i not sure about ur TAO master...And what u're trying to said i'm not chinese educated??Well, i am sorry for posting an article without commenting it...I will not do it again

FInally, i guess i stuck in a wrong section, wrong forum...Peace PHD brother...I am just a fool

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 3 2009, 10:59 AM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 11:09 AM

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Since when i claim that i know philosophy....but well i understand it....I love philosophy, therefore i wan to pursue....because i wan to meet with ppl who had common interest with me...Learn the term use in philosophy...Someone who understand philosophy could somehow know exactly the term use in philosophy field??? Kinda weird u related philosophy with debate absolutely....U should be lawyer...U look like one of them...Can u differentiate between discussion and debate??? ALAMAK

SO u are chinese philosopher??? So tis is how they react to other philosphers???Some much accusation as if u know the answer???(I am incapable to learn now)..What u great philosopher are u....Cool indeed...I cant imagine what how ppl in philosophy forum react to ur rudeness...True art of questioning is to know what we all capable of knowing...not seeking and attacking what ppl who dono....I come here to collect opinion and share my knowledge as well...I like this way of learning...ANy problem with u?? I dono anything about u...but u are indeed so ancient...GOod for u brother

The most valuable life is thinking not to know but to understand...U know philosophy hell more than i do, but doesnt mean u understand philosophy...playing with name in philosophy isnt wise thing to do...Well, maybe u dont discuss philosophy which might end up as fight or debate...maybe u got ur way to pursue it...Well, confucious prefer peace than anything else...

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 3 2009, 11:50 AM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 11:54 AM

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HAHAHAHA....really....ok...great...U are a great philosopher...i have nothing to said...pls post this understand=knowing in any philosophy forum...oh my goodness...my brother, i treated it as u pretend to be fool and manipulate the word...because i dont think u are idiot...


Added on August 3, 2009, 11:59 amMy goodness, now i know memorizing for ancient chinese equal to understanding...No wonder chinese stuck everything in their brain, thinking is the best way....MEMORIZE it and u are einstein....COOL

I cannot deny u are the best lawyer in malaysia....Damn, seriously...u can save anwar for ur talent...but not in philosophy...LOL...i dont know how to sing More Li hwa, mean i dont understand music at all...HELL YES...my father DONT KNOW how tall is the petronas tower, but wat the hell he build a house...OMG I AM SO BLURN NOW

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 3 2009, 12:09 PM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 3 2009, 12:47 PM

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OK, tats fine with me...maybe too much global disscussion make me forget this is malaysian forum...i dont wish to buried piles of words to make it clear...just hope if u got free times pls post any any any (understand=knowing) in philosophy forum or intellectual forum...IF understanding = knowing, physics do not contain equation and cannot be summarize ...maths is not possible to learn ... I guess Stephen Hawkins or Sidney clouston is wrong....wiggenstein is wrong too...how can this idiots win noble prize for clarify it different...SHIT THEM...Malaysia boleh

"Do u know petronas tower??"
No, never heard off

"what do u understand from petronas tower??"
Tallest building in the world and a symbolize icon to the country

"do u know E=mc2 ??"
Yes i do, i always saw it on TV

"Do u understand E=mc2 ??"
Yes i do, i apply it on physics to calculate the mass of atom

ENglish is different from mandarin...Chinese poem tend to use "CHiu" means "know" because it sounds more dramatis..."chiu" can mean understand too...So, brother and sister, dont get mixed up ok??

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 3 2009, 01:16 PM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 4 2009, 02:25 AM

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Most of us didnt know much about philosophy...therefore i think that by posting this article could somehow trigger a discussion about it....let ppl get a picture what it is like in other countries...
Just because i dono the rule about posting an article, and u all just tend to be judgmental...cant u guys just try to understand it and comment about it?? why need be to so complicated...pit-pointing ppl's mistake...Show how rightful u are??
Agree that my english wasnt good enough, but i never ever get critised in any philosophy forum...I mean the global one...the ppl would just correct me and ask me to clarify it again...Should we follow their example?? I thought only the politician acted like tat...now tat i know is actually derive by the people of Malaysian...Mutual praise possible among races??? i am starting to doubt


Added on August 4, 2009, 3:11 amDreamer,
Study in philosophy isn’t required to be a “philosopher” as a matter of fact by studying too much philosophy and not spending enough time figuring out your “own” philosophy could turn you into someone that is incapable of original thought and is only able to regurgitate dead men's words.
One of the biggest causes of conflict is not looking for the meaning of another... Read More’s words but stealing someone else’s words, assigning your own meaning to them and throwing back in their face. I’ve seen this many times on Malaysian's forum, and it sickens me. Now it seems nothing had change... A wise man and a good philosopher seeks understanding of others first then builds on that understanding by offering or adding another viewpoint, not correcting or challenging the first meaning. Accusation doesnt co-existed with discussion, Dreamer

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.


This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 4 2009, 03:20 AM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 4 2009, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 4 2009, 06:47 AM)
communist892003,

1) So, what kind of FOOL are you??

2) So far, you said NOTHING and share NO ORIGINAL THOUGHT.  And, you STILL have NO IDEA that you are a FOOL??

http://www.garlikov.com/Soc_Meth.html

http://www.1000advices.com/guru/communicat...s_socratic.html

3) You are a FOOL.  See above URL.  I am using STANDARD Socrates method to try to guide you.  And, instead of THINKING, you go into

Blah, blah, blah, you HURT my feeling and etc....

4) How obvious can this be?? You DO NOT KNOW Philosophy but you CLAIM that you know I DO NOT KNOW philosophy??

5) How could you EVEN criticize ANYONE on something that you DO NOT KNOW??  It isn't this a BASIC logical fallacy??  Can you THINK at all??

It is OBVIOUS to everyone reading your post that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about to begin with.

Dreamer
*
1) I put a quote and u straight think i wrote to u...Are u a fool??
2) Are u sure??A mistake of didnt comment on the article make me a person without orginal thought??Playing with philosophy's name and history to show that i am idiot?? Great for u
3) Accusation again??? Judgemental?? Every philosopher would be sad by ur behaviour...But u still a great lawyer (did u ever compliment others??)
4) Who did it 1st??? I claim you do not know philosophy?? U doesnt need to lie
5) Tell urself lawyer

It is obvious that all u know is accusation ....U should apply to be GOD...great JUDGE u are


Added on August 4, 2009, 12:26 pmBTw, thx for ur website...I am sincere about that ...dont treated my words as insulting coz it will make ur day get worst...U should change ur manner approaching ppl...or i should adapt it...Tats all

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 4 2009, 12:26 PM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 4 2009, 12:48 PM

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I wish too...but at 1st i need to introduce philosophy to Malaysian...Not much of us truly understand what we can do with philosophy in life or career...Most of us treated philosophy as something to do with ethics or morality...End up teaching or lecturing...I couldnt had a start because some ppl put some stone in front of me
TScommunist892003
post Aug 5 2009, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 4 2009, 10:02 PM)
communist892003.

STOP what you're doing, and read diligently on this page first. It will give you a BASIC idea of what philosophy is.
*
What??...I could not understand ur purpose...Is just an article about what philosophy's graduates capable to do or achieve...U mean i got the idea wrong about philosophy??


Added on August 5, 2009, 12:32 amWEll..thx for web...Isnt too much to read?? Cause me a headache..or u just refer to the dictionary's meaning??

This post has been edited by communist892003: Aug 5 2009, 12:32 AM
TScommunist892003
post Aug 5 2009, 01:04 AM

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Yes...pile of words dude...Words sickens me but doesnt mean i dont love philosophy...What are u trying to said??
TScommunist892003
post Aug 5 2009, 01:29 AM

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Mean the only way to pursue is to read more?? One way one method?? If i can do better with my own technique, why stop it?? Untill now u just keep asking me weird mysterious question and not yet explain what is ur motive
U like saying einstein should continue to stay in german because what stop him if he like physics, whereas the education make him felt tasteless for physics
U cannot just throw me a web and expected me to read everything...why not u read the article 1st and comment about it??
TScommunist892003
post Aug 5 2009, 07:56 AM

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I did introduce by telling my defination of philosophy in other threads...DOnt be mad...Not introduce philosophy actually, Introduce the picture of what philosophy graduates can do
Malaysians are more pratical....a degree at philosophy would turn into a joke...i experienced it before...therefore i am a bit shy shy...LOL
TScommunist892003
post Aug 5 2009, 08:07 AM

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Ok i will
TScommunist892003
post Aug 9 2009, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 9 2009, 04:09 AM)
You actually want to intro philosophy or not?
*
Discussion is the introduction...Philosophy is different from what u think it is...In our life we tend to seek answer, answer a question and next u get is another question...and so on....But in philosophy, what we do is question back the answer, is like moving backward ...therefore my opinion is that philosophy is the core of anything u could aware off (knowledge)....IN philosophy, the valuable lesson is learn not to know but to understand...Hence, philosophy is unknowable but describable...


Imagine the centre is the begining of knowledge, in order to produce or increase the diameter of circle, u need to keep answering questions, keep knowing something that u dono......... Any degree in circle symbolize the different field of knowledge, range from science to religion...Well, let said that u had the circle, a big one, and now u realised there is something missing ,and u're starting to question what is the purpose of all we do (what is the purpose of life??)...Therefore u tend to question back everything...finding back the centre which produce the circle u had before
TScommunist892003
post Aug 10 2009, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Aug 9 2009, 06:54 PM)
I agree with you.I have no idea what is TS talking about from the start of each of his thread.

Just like almost any other thread here,this thread makes absolutely no sense at all or much relevance to science,humanities or philosophy.

Im proposing of closing down PHD Corner as it's just pointless.The more i see,the more i think this is the place for the /k people to get stupid here to rank up post counts.
How could you learn without reading then? Books have a wealth of knowledge for you to grasp.Or you just prefer to sit down and think of something random.Or copy someone's article off the net with no reference to it.Or you just want to rank up post count here.

Dude,you cant even type in proper English or use proper punctuation.All these "..." ,"U" instead of "you" is making your post difficult to read.

Besides,you are the one posted the article,have you even commented about it?
*
No idea what u are talking about...u should update urself, seriously
TScommunist892003
post Aug 16 2009, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Aug 15 2009, 11:48 AM)
You seriously need communication knowledge, you only want to proof how smart you are and think Malaysian have little knowledge of the big word PHILOSOPHY and what it means or how well educated you are especially coming from a poor family.

Come back after you are able to make a living with your ability and show us what else you need to play a role in any society, giving the respond from this community forum, you have failed and it is not because you are wrong but you lack social knowledge or experience.

Let me elaborate; if you are accelerated and qualified psychologist at the age of 15, do you think people will come to you for marriage problems that involved sex? I think not because you are no more than just a book.

That is what you are, a BOOK.
*
No idea what u're talking....nicce accusation, i am a book, i try to act smart....continue to do that, after finished critising then let give ur view on this article, ok???

 

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