Hi all,

I'm currently holding a good job writing software for a respectable MNC. I was recently called up by a very well connected head hunter looking to recruit for another MNC.

Now, I've put on my resume that I am looking for around 120k per annum which comes up to around 10k per month. She said the client's max budget for software engineer was 9k/month. I was getting a bit annoyed at people calling me up for interviews and tell me at the end that they think I am a bit expensive or that my salary is on the high side, when I stated it clearly on my resume.

I then asked her back, what was the highest salary she got for placing a software engineer, and she said it was 14k/month. I'm quite convinced this is very few and far between and I'm quite convinced it is quite difficult to break the 10k/month mark being a software engineer in most companies.

I'm sure there's some kind of a ceiling pay limit to each role in every company and I might be quite close to it already. Is it time for me to forget about being a software engineer and try to pursue a different role? I'm in my late 20s only and my manager says there's still plenty of time for me to continue on as a software engineer until I get sick and tired of it.

This post has been edited by normaldude: Jul 21 2009, 07:36 PM

4-5 years

This post has been edited by normaldude: Jul 19 2009, 09:18 PM

3rd job

@kenji1903 - job hopping pays a bit, but still have to be careful not to overdo it

@elpee - great post. I've done some local contract works in my previous company but found it to be distracting to my day job. As for writing code for people outside the company (even in my own time) or any open source contribution, it generally requires my company's management approval to avoid any potential conflict of interest. I had to sign an agreement on this. I do have a couple of web sites running on adsense, generating a small profit since this is not contributing code to any 3rd party.

I don't know the market rate, but my company refuse to admit that such limit exists. The head hunter I talked to admits it is possible athough more difficult to find software engineer jobs of 10k and above.

Good enough to cari makan . I lead a small team of software engineers here. I mainly design, develop and support solutions to customers. I don't code 100% of my time, but still try to spend a significant amount to do or to coach someone to do it. As for the system architecture role, its done outside of Malaysia. It's still a technical role and maybe there's a higher pay scale, but will still be under a manager.

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Added on July 20, 2009, 12:20 amIf you become my boss, you can get more than that easily

Don't need to be envy, maybe your time not yet come only. After all, I started my career with a below market RM 1.5k salary only and was thinking the same thing as you around 8 years ago.

This post has been edited by normaldude: Jul 20 2009, 12:20 AM

I'm not too keen on going overseas to work because the cost of living is higher overseas and would not like this thread to head into that discussion. I probably should say "Breaking the 10k mark as a software engineer in Malaysia".

I've always said in interviews with other MNC companies that what I am asking for is only around 2,000 euros which in reality might not even be able to get a fresh grad in europe. Of course they will say that a number of other candidates locally with similar experience as myself may demand lower than what I ask for to try to push down my asking price. That's their decision of course, and for me I'm definitely not going to job hop for a lower pay.

It really amaze me that they try to bargain after telling me that how great the company is, the x number of employees they have, the lots of business, the rapid expansion in KL, but balk at the asking price. I mean, if your company is so great and hiring so many people, why is it a problem to hire 1 less person? Although the budget might be 9k, I doubt ALL the other software engineers actually get this amount and its normal to have a mix with the majority being within the 5-7k region, which leaves a 2-4k balance budget for each candidate they hire.

I have been talking to the head hunter. I would think that they would get more commision if the candidate's pay is higher. My guess is they were probably trying to squeeze me into this so-called "budget" to try to close the deal quickly. I'm quite sure that some of the guidelines can easily be bended and I really doubt any well-established and respectable company would reject a suitable candidate solely based on salary. I was not able to talk to anyone in the company until I get a green light from the head hunter.

I've heard all of this before that a person with x number of years of experience normally gets within y salary range only. I'd then gently ask them "So why didn't you hire them instead?" and that's when they come up with something I had that another candidate didn't. There are some would tell quite flatly tell me that I'm expensive, which I frankly feel.. isn't really my problem at all.

It's like going to see a BMW car and complaining that it's expensive when the price tag is publicly known. Obviously the sales person would not want to sell the BMW at the Toyota's price tag and make a loss, so why go into the BMW show room in the first place if you can't afford to buy one?

Thanks for the site btw, it has a lot of good reads.

This sounds more like a recruitment agency, and not a headhunter. A headhunter typically targets people that have a specialized skillset which might not even be looking for a job. My jobstreet and jobsdb resume are not searchable and my phone number listed is also not in use anymore. They get paid by the hiring company, not by my salary.

I should be able to break 10k in my current company eventually. Probably in another 3-5 years or so. My current company knows what I can contribute, but other companies might not be able to get all of the overall package and qualities I have based on a couple of hours of interview. Some candidates are known to do well in interviews, but do badly in the real job or vice versa.

Renamed the thread to include "in Malaysia". If I was outside of Malaysia, the thread will be "Breaking the 10k Euro/USD/AUD/GBP mark" instead. RM 10k is peanuts in other countries.


I can't reveal too much... but here's a few hints.
- I'm not a web developer
- I don't work on windows platform
- My programming languages are fairly common
- I don't work in O&G industry

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Added on July 21, 2009, 8:23 pmIt's not too hard when I look back. What worked for me is:

1. Not being choosy in the first job
2. Learn a valuble technical skill (platform/programming language) in each job
3. Stay close to the heart of the business. E.g. to a company that produces software, instead of a company that just uses it
4. Job hop only when all the conditions are right. (salary, job role, company, timing)
5. Be modest. Anyone that is better than me means I have someone to learn from. If nobody else is better, its an indication that it's time to move on
6. Reputation. The world is small. Headhunters don't call because of how many ads you applied for. They call because someone told them you might be suitable for a vacancy they have.
7. Get the job done, and do it well. It's not just about coding, it's more on problem-solving and problem prevention. Experienced people can forsee problems in requirements, design, implementation, schedule, personel suitability, testing, customer acceptance before the coding work even starts. There might be a lot of uni graduates that might code better than me but might not see issues that comes from experience.
8. Make sure there's always a new challenge to keep the passion burning. 10 years experience should be 10 years of different experiences, and not 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.
9. Choose the right industry and company
10. Have a specialization. (e.g.: multithreading, database optimization, etc...)

This post has been edited by normaldude: Jul 21 2009, 08:23 PM

Hi guys,

Reviving an old thread here... I finally broke the 10k mark while still in my late 20s. Found another company in the same line requiring the kind of skills I had and the kind of work I like to do. Took a bit of time and some unsuccessful interviews as well, but well worth it.

I'm not in SAP line nor O&G industry. Just a regular software engineer/programmer. Hope other aspiring software engineers will know this is still possible in M'sia if you have the right skills, experience and domain expertise the prospective company is looking for. And yes, the key is always to improve oneself.

Time to set a new goal for a new decade

This post has been edited by normaldude: Jan 3 2010, 10:31 PM

Normally headhunters find you, you don't find them. They have an extensive network of contacts in the industry they are in and are very knowledgable in their field. Companies that are willing to pay for specialized people might not be willing to go through the agony of filtering jobstreet/jobsdb applications. It's just simply too much trouble and effort and the right candidate for the job probably does not know and did not apply the vacancy. The person might already be very happy with his job already and not interested to move to another place. That's where the hiring company get their worth from headhunters.

When the headhunter interview me, they not only know who I work for and what I am working on. They know who are the competitors, the partners, the customers, the team size and even reporting structure to a certain extent. I cannot confirm how the headhunter got my contact. My resume has been hidden in jobstreet/jobsdb and I never applied any jobs in more than few years and even changed my hp number. I suspect they got my contact from one of my well connected ex-colleagues who have been in the same industry for more than 10 years.