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Biology Human Evolution

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TSSeaGates
post Jun 20 2009, 02:35 PM, updated 17y ago

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Living beings evolve to adapt, usually out of necessity.

eg. Predator developed stereoptic vision, while prey do not possess them, they have wider angle of view to ensure predators don't get an easy jump on them.

Human evolved through the ages as well, but now we seems to take the equation out through technology.

When we need to see better at night, we have IR lenses, when we need to communicate, we reach for our cellphone, when we need to go about places faster, instead of walking or running faster, we use vehicle to commute.

Has the human species reached the end of evolution, be it natural or hindered by technologies? or will humans evolves into other form? If you think we still have room for improvement, what do you think human will look like in the future? tongue.gif

Note : Biological evolution, meaning not involving technology.

This post has been edited by wKkaY: Jun 20 2009, 03:43 PM
TSSeaGates
post Jun 20 2009, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(transhumanist92 @ Jun 20 2009, 02:39 PM)
Homo-Cyborg: Our Next Evolution
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Mechanical enhancement aren't evolution. We're talking about biological evolution.
TSSeaGates
post Jun 21 2009, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(aranur @ Jun 21 2009, 03:24 PM)
you do realize that all the theory on how a species 'evolve' to another species are basically conjectures with no real evidence apart from "well logically speaking... it should crossover to the next level of evolution". for one thing, you can never run experiments that can be repeated elsewhere to prove the point where such evolution take place, and turn the hypothesis into a theory, which means to say, technically, evolution is not a theory. why not? because the said evolution process takes millions of years, if it ever does occur, thus a real and proper scientific experiment can never be conducted.

Darwin's was all about natural selection. since the fittest survive, shouldn't there be thousands of mishaps along the way which didn't survive at every generation of the species? why isn't there samples of proto-human that sprouted all possible mutation along the way to choosing the best fit? i would imagine that it would make sense to have thousands of contemporary proto-humans along the way to leave some skeletal evidence, yet along the way, we're seeing rather consistent development.
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Some scientist theorized that every living being on earth share a common sequence of gene, not all of our genes but a one or maybe more segment. Wouldn't that be a good proof that we're all descendant from a 'prime' living being? The only way to have same copies of gene naturally is through mitosis and biological reproduction.

Natural selection is actually what created modern human. eg. Neanderthal was eliminated in the selection process ages ago.

Human specie is actually young compared to many other species in the world. Say about 200000 years old. Evolutions can take millions of years so is it true to say that we're not evolving? 200000 years in millions is like a mere blink of an eye.

Proto-human probably existed, but the difference from us is so minute that we can't tell them apart. Maybe we have more body hair than we do now? We don't know. It'll still be a while before we can see a huge distinct difference in humans of the past and future.
TSSeaGates
post Jun 21 2009, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(finger_waverz @ Jun 21 2009, 07:05 PM)
that is the problem.. you cannot take some theory and turn it into fact without hard evidence and proof....
anyone could say anything, just because it take even a billion year to see it changes you claimed it to be the facts...
how could nature could be so creative.... everything fall into its pieces so precise even it take a billion year .. by randomly, using the method of try and error...... that could be fatal to each species by the end all, species ended up exterminated

pardon my english~
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Evolution of a species don't always go in a single direction. They will branch out to adapt so it's very hard for a single species to go extinct due to a 'bad' evolution.

Take human wardrobe as analogy, human migrating to live closer to the equator will wear less while those living in the north pole will wear thick clothing.

QUOTE(salimbest83 @ Jun 21 2009, 07:12 PM)
im not a religious freak..
just i believe my religious and anything that come from it..
with all i have..

and i still belive that Adam were created by Allah as a human..
not an ape.
and we were his descendent also as human..
not an ape or some small creature that turn into human..
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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tl:dr

I hate to say anti-religion comments but I guess the room for tolerance has been filled up.

You first said God created human, then you continue to say second generation human are created through biology(irony, science at work!). Wouldn't an 'al-mighty' creator figured out everything and just create 6 billion human that are immortal? It's so much easier than going through life and death.

So who created Mr.'al-mighty' then? Since judging by what you're trying to say every creation has a al mighty 'creator' behind them. So who's the creator of Mr.'al-mighty'? al-al-mighty?

We are talking about potential human EVOLUTION from the present and we're not debating whether human's has a religious or scientific origin. We're discussing the theory of evolution as a whole and whether human have to abide by such law or has technology hindered any potential for human evolution. When the thread say Evolution, it's obvious I am not putting religious discussion into here as proven by your hardline stand that evolution do not exist in religious point of view. Your religious comments IS NOT contributing any scientific discussion to this thread at all.

This post has been edited by SeaGates: Jun 21 2009, 09:08 PM
TSSeaGates
post Jun 22 2009, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(ch0c0l@tie @ Jun 22 2009, 01:12 PM)
Organisms are what they are because of their genetic code.. How can something grow a tail after 1 million years just because they need to swim??

If you're talking about mutation then its different. The gap in evolution theory is too big
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Genetic mutation plays a big role in evolution. Theory of natural selection is that if these mutation serves as a factor of survival, it's more likely these 'mutants' survive longer than others pass the gene down and replace the previous variants. Mutation do not happen only because of pollution/radiation/man made factors. It does happen naturally(rare but it does happen), and mutation is not always something significant like growing a tail over a single gestation period.

The reason for a huge gap in evolution has been explained in previous posts. To condense everything into one sentence. It's hard to spot difference in short period when gradual evolution through millions of years. Just imagine you have a 300 liter water tank, and every day you take one DROP of water out of it, you won't notice any obvious change in the water level even if you observe it everyday but you realized how much difference there is when you extracted half the tank of water out(when you compare it to the FULL tank)

QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 22 2009, 01:24 PM)
hmm sorry but i have to disagree with your suggestion.(in my understanding u are saying this thread be moved to RWI, if its not wat u meant.. my apologies)

TS created this evolution thread is to talk about genetic changes of human or organism on earth which has nothing to do with religion. Religion can only be related to the early or beginning stage of evolution/creation of human (which is not a proven fact). The evolution we discuss is more on how genes and DNA evolve from generation to generation which has nothing to do with religion.. so this thread should stay wink.gif

edit : typo
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QUOTE(styrwr91 @ Jun 22 2009, 01:32 PM)
And it will stay, so long as no more insults or flame/trolls.

Perhaps TS should include some regulations/rules in the first post??
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Why do I have to cater the need of 'religious' comments here? I created this thread not in RWI, but in SCIENCE lab.
TSSeaGates
post Jun 23 2009, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(ChcGamer @ Jun 23 2009, 04:20 PM)
Hi guys,

Lately we've been watching quite some movies about mutants and stuffs. Might be off-topic but i would like to know your opinions on this. Would we one day have mutant like abilities through evolution? Like X-Men or Heroes for example

Or will humans evolve differently like Spiderman who got bitten? I've heard stories of animals growing differently lets say in term of size due to exposure of chemicals. We've even seen such animal mutation in movies before. So is it possible with human?

I just know the basics of evolution and don't know if my question is suitable to be asked here.
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Mutation is part of what drives evolution. It's somewhat like a 'Advance to Go' card where they took a shortcut in time. Mutation however has a more random probability and the changes are not often due to necessity.

Mutation is still bound by biological limitation. While it's possible to use cell from other animal and transplant into human. It's not likely that genes from other species will be mixed into human gene pool easily because body's natural immune system will reject the particular organ.

Be a bit realistic on mutation though, mutation won't allow you to manipulate metal object, fire or ice tongue.gif
TSSeaGates
post Jun 23 2009, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ Jun 23 2009, 10:23 PM)
one of the logical conclusion of human evolution may be the area 51 alien type.

no need physical ability -> thin shrunken body
need more mental ability ->big head
artificial food (liquid form?) ->small mouth
more use of optical sense and hands -> big eyes and long fingers

either that, or cybernetics become advance enough that we eventually end up being cyborgs (ala ghost in the shell)
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Taking the form of the 'greys' is one of the plausible direction but...

What if human evolves to improve as a whole?

People are getting taller, running faster, smarter etc. We might end up getting scaled up in size but still looking the same.

We're talking about evolution. Cybernetics falls under engineering and it's not counted as evolution.
TSSeaGates
post Jun 23 2009, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ Jun 23 2009, 10:40 PM)
while a small portion of human become stronger, faster, more agile; the majority of the humans are slowly becoming more and more sedimentary and valuing mental capabilities over physical. but either way is possible.

cybernetics is not counted as evolution, but marks the end of human evolution. but not human improvements as you can always invent better parts.
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That's why I brought up the subject of technology hindering evolution. Are we disturbing the process of evolution through out over reliance of technologies?
TSSeaGates
post Jul 5 2009, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Jul 4 2009, 10:00 PM)
I believe in theory of evolution but not 100% of it.
I don't believe humans evolved from apes..
As far as i know, scientists still haven't found the missing link between ape and human, i mean the fossils..
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Scientist will never find a missing links. It took us millions of years to evolve, you won't see something like a big distinct leap from our primal ancestor to modern human.

It was also discussed earlier that, we share the same ancestor as other primate, doesn't mean we evolved from apes. We just branched out and evolved together.
TSSeaGates
post Jul 8 2009, 09:53 PM

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QUOTE(kaika @ Jul 8 2009, 10:13 AM)
Evolution doesn't happen in a single day. Mutation of a single individual doesn't count as evolution (just my opinion). Evolution is defined as change of allele frequency in a gene pool. The 4 major forces of evolution are mutation, selection, drift and migration.

Mutation can be a force of evolution, but it is not an evolution. If the individual has bad mutation (let's say it is lethal). It would die fast, and the gene would not contribute to the gene pool. If it is a good mutation, ie increase it's fitness (higher survival rate), he has more chance to mate and this increase the gene in the gene pool in the given location.

Evolution is random. We might not evolve to have bigger brain and smaller mouth.
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Wouldn't that fit into the law of evolution where fittest survive to pass on the better gene?

 

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