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Physics Nuclear power?, Use nuclear reactor to generate energy

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TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 06:18 AM, updated 17y ago

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Nuclear power is any nuclear technology designed to extract usable energy from atomic nuclei via controlled nuclear reactions.

The only method in use today is through nuclear fission, though other methods might one day include nuclear fusion and radioactive decay.

All utility-scale reactor heat water to produce steam, which is then converted into mechanical work for the purpose of generating electricity or propulsion.

In 2007, 14% of the world's electricity came from nuclear power.

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Pressurized Water Reactor

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Boiling Water Reactor

Advantages (Pros):

1.Nuclear power plants are more efficient than ever before. New technology has made them more reliable (they break down less often) and safer. cool2.gif

2.Reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This is a contentious issue. Proponents of nuclear power argue that, as no coal or fossil fuels are burnt, no carbon dioxide is released into the air. brows.gif

3.Although the initial cost of building nuclear plants is high, the running costs are relatively low. icon_rolleyes.gif

4.One reason the costs are low is that nuclear plants need only a small amount of uranium to produce a lot of energy. In fact, if the cost of uranium doubled, costs would only be increased by 7%. 1 truck of uranium produces as much energy as 1000 trucks of coal! thumbup.gif

5.Reduces dependence on foreign oils and natural gas (like biofuels). America, for instance, imports a lot of oil and natural gas from other countries. The price of these products is volatile, and change very quickly. If the price increases quickly, consumers have to pay more for their electricity (which they may not be able to afford). icon_idea.gif

6.Nuclear wastes can be safely stored underground
wink.gif

We (Malaysia) start develop and research in this field 50+ years back, together with South Korea.

BUT, we are far left behind by them. In every sectors, eg; economic.

Why? Because we spend more money on producing energy using common technique, on the other hand, South Korea had more money to develop their country.
*short intro from me
rclxms.gif

What do you guys think?? smile.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 04:03 PM

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Yes, indeed. The safety and security of the nuclear reactor are highly take into account.

Malaysia don have one RESEARCH nuclear reactor which is only generates 1 Mwatts of electricity.

To achieve optimum safety, nuclear plants in the western world operate using a 'defence-in-depth' approach, with multiple safety systems supplementing the natural features of the reactor core. Key aspects of the approach are:
-high-quality design & construction
-equipment which prevents operational disturbances developing into problems
-redundant and diverse systems to detect problems, control damage to the fuel and prevent significant radioactive releases
-provision to confine the effects of severe fuel damage to the plant itself.


The safety provisions include a series of physical barriers between the radioactive reactor core and the environment, the provision of multiple safety systems, each with backup and designed to accommodate human error. Safety systems account for about one quarter of the capital cost of such reactors.

The barriers in a typical plant are: the fuel is in the form of solid ceramic (UO2) pellets, and radioactive fission products remain bound inside these pellets as the fuel is burned. The pellets are packed inside sealed zirconium alloy tubes to form fuel rods. These are confined inside a large steel pressure vessel with walls up to 30 cm thick - the associated primary water cooling pipework is also substantial. All this, in turn, is enclosed inside a robust reinforced concrete containment structure with walls at least one metre thick.

But the main safety features of most reactors are inherent - negative temperature coefficient and negative void coefficient. The first means that beyond an optimal level, as the temperature increases the efficiency of the reaction decreases (this in fact is used to control power levels in some new designs). The second means that if any steam has formed in the cooling water there is a decrease in moderating effect so that fewer neutrons are able to cause fission and the reaction slows down automatically.

Beyond the control rods which are inserted to absorb neutrons and regulate the fission process, the main engineered safety provisions are the back-up emergency core cooling system (ECCS) to remove excess heat (though it is more to prevent damage to the plant than for public safety) and the containment.

About the incident about nuclear reactor,
user posted image

We believe that there will no other accident if operator follow the operation procudures. So far, compare to the accidents happen in other enegy generating sites, eg coal, nuclear reactor is more safe and can be said that none of accident occur.
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TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(befitozi @ Jun 19 2009, 04:46 PM)
Nice work there TS. These diagrams are very good. Especially those on documenting fatalities. Hopefully  people can clearly see the statistics which clearly bust the MYTH that nuclear power is dangerous.

Its akin to comparing on why travel is by far the safest mode of transportation.

I would like to add a question to detractors of nuclear power. You say of the long term effect of nuclear waste, exposure and so. Wouldn't a fiery explosive death be far more of a scary thought when all the methane gas that is trapped in the Siberian permafrost is released and combusted due to global warming which is directly related to use of fossil fuels?
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yea.. thanks for that.. well, as long as everyone concern about what they "did" to the earth, we still have chance, i believe there groups of scientist work on that issues.. nod.gif shin-pai-ja-nai


Added on June 19, 2009, 6:37 pm
QUOTE(styrwr91 @ Jun 19 2009, 05:03 PM)
but still our country rely largely on coal and fossil fuel...hydropower alone could not meet up wif our demands

looking towards nuclear power plant is a good idea, but majority of the public wouldnt like it
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we need to change that mind set!! there is nothing to afraid of when hear about the word "nuclear"

nuclear technolgy is gone every angle in our life,

medical: oncology, x-ray, radiopharmaceutical, etc

industrial: baggage n container scanning, non destructive testing, sterilzation, food industry, etc

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This post has been edited by profdrahhen: Jun 19 2009, 06:37 PM
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(NicJolin @ Jun 19 2009, 09:47 PM)
I'm saying hydrogen fuel , replying to the person above me  icon_rolleyes.gif
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now we talking about generating 1000Mws of electricity. Is it possible to generate such huge energy using solar? hydrogen fuel?? no.. cant..

fusion technolgy? will not availble is this few years.. so far none of material / apparatus to hold the heat of the sun. Fusion reactor = sun, generate energy from fusing light atom such as Hydrogen and Helium. flex.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 11:22 PM

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that why we should our mentality... people are making alots of money in field.. as i mention b4..

provided nuclear apparatus, consultants, services..etc..
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(yshiuan @ Jun 19 2009, 11:27 PM)
no leakage oso it is bad for the environment, bcz hot water will be released into the sea. this can affect the ecosystem as well as the income of the fishermen.
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is it warm water.. warm water will promote the growth of plankton, which is food for fishes..
In Japan, there are more fish near the reactor.. blush.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(SeaGates @ Jun 19 2009, 11:35 PM)
They have good reason to fear imo.

Events that cause the Three Mile Island and Chernobyl happens all the time, overheating, equipment failure, human error but were brought under control with ease. What happened at Three Mile Island/Chernobyl are a series of continuous mistakes and failure to rectify the problem that caused the meltdown.

Unless Malaysia has a well trained crew manning these reactor and even with that, people will still be paranoid about having nuclear plant near their home.
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nothing to worry about that..

if u travel alot via airplane, you will receive more dose than nearby nuclear reactor.. this is fact..

can u show me where did that accident happen again??

TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(NicJolin @ Jun 19 2009, 11:42 PM)
Er...there's a cooling tower there for a reason
Exactly the problem in M'sia. Lack of well trained guys
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Yub! Now Malaysia concentrate on producing more well trained personnel regarding nuclear field.. rclxms.gif
a good start.. UKM producing around 40+ students per year in nuclear science, soon, nuclear engineering will be available in Malaysia..
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 19 2009, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(ah liew @ Jun 19 2009, 11:54 PM)
Not every country has the chance to use Nuclear Energy because of Nuclear Proliferation. The WNA will keep an eye on you.

Read more about it:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf12.html

This is to prevent the misuse of Nuclear Energy. Because military projects can develope Nuclear Weapons.
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Malaysia probably will have own nuclear reactor in 2023.
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(amduser @ Jun 20 2009, 12:33 AM)
just to write out some of my own opinion here.

building a nuclear reactor is costly, and have to train the employees and engineer in different section in operating the plant, even a slight flaw and something unimaginable will happen.

and i dont think we really need that much power from a nuclear reactor, even a small one, maybe is one of the reason why malaysia does not have a nuclear reactor power plant.

furthermore, the area requires to build a nuclear reactor is very big, you need to isolate the nuclear plant from the residential area, so far as i know, most of the lan in malaysia are still forest, and they are protected forest, and there are many mountain area in malaysia, so i dont think it will be an ideal place for building a nuclear reactor.

IF a nuclear reactor were built in malaysia, i bet some people will held protest about the nuclear plant and said that it is dangerous bla bla bla, and the endless debate will start
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of coz ppl will protest.. but if u can overcome negative perception in this issues, u will thanks god for this technology..

France, German, USA, Japan..etc mostly depends on nuclear power plant to power up their country. Are they out dated like us? whistling.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 20 2009, 12:34 AM)
0.01 error rate will destroy u and me and him....

we are not prepared for this ... 0% tolerance rate
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nuclear power plant technolgy safety and security is far beyond of ur thinking.. cool2.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 12:59 AM

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QUOTE(johnsonwps @ Jun 20 2009, 12:49 AM)
Nuclear power??? Not for me, if Malaysia wants to build nuclear reactor, think twice please.

For Malaysia, we can have better option like solar power or wind power.. We have endless sun, for those who lived at Sitiawan, you'll understand my point.

Solar or wind power would not attract too much attention from other country.
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for your information, solar power are not practical to generate electricity...

wind power are practically suitable for Malaysia.. need larger space to fits turbine where nuclear can do..


Added on June 20, 2009, 1:00 am
QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 20 2009, 12:59 AM)
and far beyond malaysia human capital and money capital too

politic kills science... just like how religion kill science inb4
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i agree.. no doubts about this..

This post has been edited by profdrahhen: Jun 20 2009, 01:00 AM
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 01:34 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 20 2009, 01:03 AM)
i mean... the current method of producing energy is not bad either.. i mean.. the world is not running out of petroleum or natural gas... tankers are still moving right? ppl said petrol is finishing soon tat's why price so high... actually it's all about the futures market.. these speculator wanna untung money so purposely play the price til high.... earth still haz a LOT of natural resources... why not spend more on enhancing the current method.. instead of wasting money on nuclear power... because the total sum will shows more negative value in the government's account book if we wanna spend on nuclear
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Just think out of box.. We are not move into nuclear unless it is to reduce emission of CO^2, preserve our nature to next generation... dont u want ur next generation know what is koala bear? polar bear? play with them??

we need to use green energy rather than burn those petroleum, coal, or natural gas.. yawn.gif

besides that, it will be cheaper in term of long term usage.. TNB had proposed their paperwork regarding this..


Added on June 20, 2009, 1:36 am
QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 20 2009, 01:25 AM)
Chernobyl?

Do you think malaysian can do a job well done?

all the smart ass left to some high paying country dy..

which PhD would still stay in Msia if not those <insert something here> who only carries the title but not the knowledge.

I wouldn't risk.
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so, r u belong to those "smart ass"??

think positive, logical and rational are not bad.. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by profdrahhen: Jun 20 2009, 01:36 AM
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 02:08 AM

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QUOTE(befitozi @ Jun 20 2009, 01:50 AM)
The rate of the fish eating the algae would be far greater then any warm water induced algae boom can do. We are not dumping nitrates into the ocean mind you. Just plain fresh H20.
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absolutely... rclxms.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 06:09 PM

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user posted image
This diagram is applicable to USA doh.gif

This post has been edited by profdrahhen: Jun 20 2009, 06:10 PM
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(ah liew @ Jun 20 2009, 09:59 PM)
Any source?

Wawasan 2020 had failed before, don't be too optimistic.
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waiting for confirmation now.. hmm.gif
TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 20 2009, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(ah liew @ Jun 20 2009, 10:17 PM)
Let it be.. South Korea can be our role model.. thumbup.gif

there is no point escaping from this technolgy.. if we are worry about nuclear waste, its all political issues. Technology in managing waste is available and being use..

Integrated Used Fuel Management
Under an integrated management approach, used nuclear fuel will remain stored at nuclear power plants in the near term. Eventually, the government will recycle it and place the unusable end product in a deep geologic repository.

Used Nuclear Fuel Is Solid and Compact
Used nuclear fuel consists of small ceramic uranium fuel pellets. All the used nuclear fuel produced by the U.S. nuclear energy industry in nearly 50 years—if stacked end to end—would cover an area the size of a football field to a depth of less than 10meters.

Near- and Long-Term Plans for Managing Used Fuel
Currently, used nuclear fuel is safely stored at nuclear plant sites, either in steel-lined, concrete vaults filled with water or in airtight steel or steel-reinforced concrete containers with steel inner canisters. Diligent monitoring and maintenance of safety systems ensures that the fuel is safely stored.

Components of an Integrated Management System
-interim storage of used fuel at centralized volunteer locations
-advanced fuel reprocessing and recycling of used fuel to reduce the volume, heat and toxicity of nuclear waste and recover useful materials
-permanent disposal of the byproducts of recycling and used nuclear fuel at a deep geologic repository.

TSprofdrahhen
post Jun 21 2009, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(aranur @ Jun 21 2009, 03:49 PM)
yeah... pray the local council people don't forget about that wasted nuke stockpile they left in your backyard.

I remember reading someone's story about a university that once failed to properly dispose of dysfunctional machine that uses radioactive material. they left it on the corridor for God knows how long. along the way, a couple of professors whose rooms were nearby died from cancer.
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Well, in Malaysia we have Act. 304 for regulation in any nuclear related matters, need of licence, reporting to Atomic Energy Licencing Board (AELB)... etc.

This law must be strictly followed by anybody.

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For more information, click on the link below
Act. 304
TSprofdrahhen
post Jul 6 2009, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(kuroman84 @ Jul 5 2009, 09:46 PM)
i believe it is necessary as it can produce infinite energy. Imagine even the fusion of electron and positron would create an energy with almost equal with speed of light.

Offtopic, who moderating this forum and at least i can say that this is the first science forum that i ever meet for malaysian. BTW, im telling to myself as well to others, i feel like this forum really lacking people who really know science in detail. Most of the fact is just vomitting from what we know, there is no mechanism or formula involvded in this discusion, n that including me as well. Perharps we should promote such this forum to student in university so that they can participate in active n we would learn something from the expert
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ohh really? what kind of formula you looking for??? i will try my best to explain.. emmm.. yes, i will!! hmm.gif

*p/s: "will try my best" actually not a wise answer, according to Licenced councellor.. hahaa.. he said, we have no time to waste on trying any more, simply answer yes or no will do!! that's what happen in develop country.. Malaysia, malingsia.. flex.gif

 

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