Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages  1 2 3 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

Astronomy Space Travel., Imagine we colonise other planets

views
     
TSWinston LYN
post Jun 15 2009, 12:38 AM, updated 17y ago

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
221 posts

Joined: Apr 2008


smile.gif As per title, if the whole world's resources, manpower and technology merged together to form what is know as UED(Or whatever fictional Earth Government u can think of) to create Warships, or more efficient Space Shuttle as big as Battle Cruisers you see on Starwars any fictional Space War.

We could solve alot of problems on earth. Now, we are running short on lands to live, lack of resources to cope with the ever-increasing demand. So, we travel to space and look for a habitable planet, we colonise the planet and send more humans from earth to stay there. Then we can now have our fair shares of resources. nod.gif

Problem is, building a space shuttle is costly and deemed useless by a lot of people. The Space Shuttle we have now is traveling at a very very slow speed and consumes huge amount of fuel just to overcome gravitational attraction and drag by the action of Atmosphere on the Space shuttle.

This is the main reason why Earth's distance to most of the planets on the Solar System is large. Just like previous times where ancient civilization had difficulty to reach to the far reaches of lands.

So, what do u think the human civilization is going to look like when space travel is imminent? Or is it even possible to think of it? Discuss. nod.gif

This post has been edited by wKkaY: Jun 20 2009, 03:41 PM
goldfries
post Jun 15 2009, 01:03 AM

40K Club
Group Icon
Forum Admin
44,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2003




the $$$ used for researching and constructing a space-travelling vehicle that can transport humans to colonize other planet, and the amount of effort to transport people and materials blablablablalbla combined - we might as well use the $$$ to re-condition the earth.
TSWinston LYN
post Jun 15 2009, 01:16 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
221 posts

Joined: Apr 2008


QUOTE(goldfries @ Jun 15 2009, 01:03 AM)
the $$$ used for researching and constructing a space-travelling vehicle that can transport humans to colonize other planet, and the amount of effort to transport people and materials blablablablalbla combined - we might as well use the $$$ to re-condition the earth.
*
Reconditioning the Earth yes is a good idea. But as u recondition the earth, you might as well think of the ever-increasing human population. Once u've got everything ready, Human population exceeds that of availability. So, why don't we travel to other planet, discover new species, phenomenon or even whole new thing to be added to our advantage to better Earth?

Scientist are also looking for water on Mars - possibility of life form on that Planet.
bgeh
post Jun 15 2009, 01:39 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,814 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(Winston LYN @ Jun 15 2009, 01:16 AM)
Reconditioning the Earth yes is a good idea. But as u recondition the earth, you might as well think of the ever-increasing human population. Once u've got everything ready, Human population exceeds that of availability. So, why don't we travel to other planet, discover new species, phenomenon or even whole new thing to be added to our advantage to better Earth?

Scientist are also looking for water on Mars - possibility of life form on that Planet.
*
Let's make it simple.

1) Space travel is hazardous. Radiation levels are greatly elevated, especially in the case of a solar flare, with virtually no shielding other than the spacecraft itself, and research is going into finding different methods of shielding. Now take the distance to the next neighbouring star (which I doubt has planets), which works out to be about 400,000 times further away, and you have an idea of how far it has to go, and see 2) for how long it'll take.

2) Space travel takes ages. Current plans for travelling to Mars will take at the very least 8 months. Add that to shielding and you have big issues.

3) Habitability of other planets, most likely current candidate: Mars. Carbon dioxide dominated atmosphere, so we still have to get spacesuits, and still need sealed compartments. Also the issue of heating, since the atmosphere of Mars is so thin as to make it susceptible to large temperature fluctuations, which means more problems, and its weak magnetic field (approx 10^-4 of Earth's magnetic field) which means even more radiation shielding is required again.

Or put it this way: The problem with space travel is the humans themselves wink.gif

This post has been edited by bgeh: Jun 15 2009, 01:42 AM
goldfries
post Jun 15 2009, 01:41 AM

40K Club
Group Icon
Forum Admin
44,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2003




plenty of land area for humans. biggrin.gif

funny thing about humans is that instead of conquering the wild areas of the land we're thinking of colonizing Mars. and others.

if only humans learn to conserve and plan out for nature and also learn to live on areas in the ocean and wild, then i think it's not an issue.

sorry, i'm digressing from the SPACE TRAVEL topic.

anyway if space is concerned, then i think forget about colonizing planets. if we're having a space ship, might as well have it to be able to sustain humanity.

example - those see in Macross or Wall-E smile.gif life onboard a space unit.
beatlesalbum
post Jun 15 2009, 02:52 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,711 posts

Joined: Nov 2006


space travel is absolutely necessary. our resources are depleting exponentially and even with new methods of conservation, our apetite is insatiable. we need ways to figure out he we can create a space colony not for just the current spurt in human population but for the long term future...
it is inevitable that someday human population would not be manegable on our land mass, and we must also think about the conservation of wildlife. there is only so much we landmass we can take up before we encroach too much into the important forests.

and for that last reason alone, we need to have foresight to go ahead with this.

we could start from the moon? create a dome like structure that can be self sustained, have solar power generators, plants for conusmption and oxygen creation.
TSWinston LYN
post Jun 15 2009, 12:57 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
221 posts

Joined: Apr 2008


QUOTE(bgeh @ Jun 15 2009, 01:39 AM)
Let's make it simple.

1) Space travel is hazardous. Radiation levels are greatly elevated, especially in the case of a solar flare, with virtually no shielding other than the spacecraft itself, and research is going into finding different methods of shielding. Now take the distance to the next neighbouring star (which I doubt has planets), which works out to be about 400,000 times further away, and you have an idea of how far it has to go, and see 2) for how long it'll take.

2) Space travel takes ages. Current plans for travelling to Mars will take at the very least 8 months. Add that to shielding and you have big issues.

3) Habitability of other planets, most likely current candidate: Mars. Carbon dioxide dominated atmosphere, so we still have to get spacesuits, and still need sealed compartments. Also the issue of heating, since the atmosphere of Mars is so thin as to make it susceptible to large temperature fluctuations, which means more problems, and its weak magnetic field (approx 10^-4 of Earth's magnetic field) which means even more radiation shielding is required again.

Or put it this way: The problem with space travel is the humans themselves wink.gif
*
1) Yes very true. Shielding itself is already a big issue to be thought of. With our current technology, we can't even shield nuclear explosion created by us. Well we don't really need to go to neighboring star. We can start off by sending humans to Mars.

2) That's why we need engines that can boost the speed of the Space Shuttle into nearing speed of Light. We can't achieve speed of light but we can reach like 80% of it.

3) Hmm, can we like, create volcanic eruption on Mars to allow new life? Life on Earth itself began due to Volcanic Eruption. With lands rich with fresh nutrients, soil and allow for the pioneer species to strengthen the soil then in turn the process goes on to allow for life.
aleluya
post Jun 15 2009, 03:54 PM

I'm Teh Powah!
******
Senior Member
1,134 posts

Joined: Apr 2005
From: kay eel


Imagine 1 thing too, how long are you to able to live when you travel out?

there's was 1 concern on if we travel on speed of light, our process of aging become faster too. I forget where i read it but there's a concern and yet to prove because we aren't traveling > speed of light
Cheesenium
post Jun 15 2009, 04:20 PM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
It's still a science fiction as there are so many obstacles around it.The solar flare radiation,the technologies we currently have and the shear distance between stars.Besides,what we know about space is so little.

I doubt it would be possible in next few centuries.

People are working on it,but i dont think we get to see it in our life time.Unless immortality available for us in next 10-20 years.
beatlesalbum
post Jun 15 2009, 04:54 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,711 posts

Joined: Nov 2006


An old article but a valid one no doubt, and proof that NASA is working on an outpost or mini colony of sorts on the Moon
QUOTE
Probing NASA's Plans For A Lunar Colony
ScienceDaily (Feb. 5, 2007) — The success of NASA's plans for a permanent human outpost on the moon may depend on the availability of technology that exploits the moon's environment and natural resources to obtain essentials like electric power, according to an article scheduled for the Feb. 5 issue of Chemical & Engineering News, the ACS' weekly newsmagazine.

In the article, C&EN associate editor Susan R. Morrissey discusses the ongoing debate about the need for humans to return to the moon, the costs, the scientific benefits of a lunar base and whether it should be in the hands of NASA or private industry.

If the project does move ahead, it may have to rely on technologies that utilize on-site resources to construct and sustain the base, the article notes.

At present, sponsors of the mission would face enormous per-kilogram costs for the solar cells and other gear that will have to be transported from Earth to the moon. Alternative approaches might avoid such sticker-shock, Morrissey notes.

One proposal, for instance, calls for using the lunar rocks and the moon's intense vacuum to make photovoltaic cells on site. Another approach calls for placing long strips of solar cells on the lunar surface, creating a large-scale solar power installation that could provide megawatts of electricity for lunar colonists.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70205130324.htm

Start small and think big...
Thinkingfox
post Jun 15 2009, 05:01 PM

Le Renard Brun Rapide
****
Senior Member
617 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
Venus might be the most likely candidate for space colonisation instead of Mars. The Venusian surface is hostile towards life on earth but 50km above, the conditions are the most similar to earth in the solar system.

user posted image

QUOTE
At an altitude of 50 km above Venusian surface, the environment is the most Earth-like in the solar system - a pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0°C-50°C range. Because there is not a significant pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the breathable-air balloon, any rips or tears would cause gases to diffuse at normal atmospheric mixing rates, giving time to repair any such damages. In addition, humans would not require pressurized suits when outside, merely air to breathe and a protection from the acidic rain.
Another question would be how to stay constantly at 50km above the surface.

QUOTE
While a space elevator extending to the surface of Venus is impractical due to the slow rotation, constructing a skyhook that extended into the upper atmosphere and rotated at the wind speed would not be difficult compared to constructing a space elevator on Earth.
However, it is not without problems:

QUOTE
The main challenge would be using a substance resistant to sulfuric acid to serve as the structure's outer layer; ceramics or metal sulfates could possibly serve in this role.
Source of reference:
Wikipedia: Colonization of Venus under Aerostat habitats and floating cities

This post has been edited by Thinkingfox: Jun 15 2009, 05:17 PM
Thinkingfox
post Jun 15 2009, 05:16 PM

Le Renard Brun Rapide
****
Senior Member
617 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
A far-fetched dream would be trying to explore Gliese 581 c & d in Constellation Libra, 20.5 light years away. This would probably be possible when we can travel at light speed.

user posted image

QUOTE
First Habitable Earthlike Planet Found, Experts Say

James Owen
for National Geographic News
April 24, 2007

The first known planet beyond the solar system that could harbor life as we know it has been discovered, scientists report. The most Earthlike planet yet found, it orbits a red dwarf star and likely contains liquid water, said the European astronomers who made the discovery.

The planet is estimated to be only 50 percent larger than Earth, making it the smallest planet yet found outside the solar system, according to a team led by Stephane Udry of the Geneva Observatory in Switzerland.

Known as Gliese 581 c, the newfound world is located in the constellation Libra, some 20.5 light-years away. The planet is named after the red dwarf star it orbits, Gliese 581, which is among the hundred closest stars to Earth. Because the planet is 14 times nearer to its star than Earth is to the sun, a year there lasts just 13 days. Gravity on the planet's surface, though, may be twice as strong as Earth's gravity.

Despite the close proximity to its parent star, however, Gliese 581 c lies within the relatively cool habitable zone of its solar system. That's because red dwarfs are relatively small and dim, and are cooler than our sun, the team explained. The scientists estimated the planet's surface temperature at between 32 and 104 degrees Fahrenheit (0 and 40 degrees Celsius). "This means water can exist in liquid form," Udry said. "If you want life like our own, then you need water."

The team reports its findings in the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics. The new world could feature familiar, rocky terrains or be completely covered with oceans, the researchers said.

Source: National Geographic
Imagine a planet covered entirely by oceans. Wouldn't that be cool?

This post has been edited by Thinkingfox: Jun 15 2009, 05:37 PM
frega
post Jun 15 2009, 05:22 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
Until we find new propulsion technology, we will be stuck here on earth.
bgeh
post Jun 15 2009, 05:53 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,814 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(Winston LYN @ Jun 15 2009, 12:57 PM)
1) Yes very true. Shielding itself is already a big issue to be thought of. With our current technology, we can't even shield nuclear explosion created by us. Well we don't really need to go to neighboring star. We can start off by sending humans to Mars.
It's not shielding explosions, it's shielding cosmic rays, shielding gamma rays. All the solutions that exist today weigh a bloody ton, and since space travel requires a small spacecraft mass for efficiency, you have a big big issue there.
Thinkingfox
post Jun 15 2009, 06:11 PM

Le Renard Brun Rapide
****
Senior Member
617 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
QUOTE(bgeh @ Jun 15 2009, 05:53 PM)
It's not shielding explosions, it's shielding cosmic rays, shielding gamma rays. All the solutions that exist today weigh a bloody ton, and since space travel requires a small spacecraft mass for efficiency, you have a big big issue there.
*
Unless we have the technology to convert thess harmful rays into electrical energy, which would kill two birds with one stone.
frega
post Jun 15 2009, 06:14 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(Thinkingfox @ Jun 15 2009, 06:11 PM)
Unless we have the technology to convert thess harmful rays into electrical energy, which would kill two birds with one stone.
*
i dont think its a source of energy. it aint sunlight.
Thinkingfox
post Jun 15 2009, 06:30 PM

Le Renard Brun Rapide
****
Senior Member
617 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
QUOTE(frega @ Jun 15 2009, 06:14 PM)
i dont think its a source of energy. it aint sunlight.
*
Gamma Rays is a form of energy.
ThanatosSwiftfire
post Jun 15 2009, 06:37 PM

Irregular
*******
Senior Member
2,787 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


Question... This things may weigh a ton, but in weightless space, is it a problem? (except the part where you're trying to get it out of our gravitational field.. which I feel can be easily solved with a space elevator)
IcyDarling
post Jun 15 2009, 06:38 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,372 posts

Joined: Sep 2008


So your point is to send a few batch of human to Mars? Why would we do it... God has gave us more than enough for us. Earth, is somewhat a much resourceful planet than wat human can use... (Despite the fact that we overuse and negatively use them) I'd rather spend the $$$ educating, or probably *transport all the resource from mars to earth"
bgeh
post Jun 15 2009, 06:39 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,814 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(Thinkingfox @ Jun 15 2009, 06:11 PM)
Unless we have the technology to convert thess harmful rays into electrical energy, which would kill two birds with one stone.
*
QUOTE(Thinkingfox @ Jun 15 2009, 06:30 PM)
Gamma Rays is a form of energy.
*
No, it's highly unlikely we're going to be able to convert them to any useful form of energy at all, both the cosmic rays and gamma rays, and besides, the energy we can gain from them would be quite negligible compared to the energy required for propulsion. We also need to consider the amount of mass added on to add this exotic converter, which would probably be extremely large.

4 Pages  1 2 3 > » Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0212sec    0.94    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 19th December 2025 - 06:03 AM