Oct 31 2010, 07:33 PM
QUOTE(nice.rider @ Oct 30 2010, 08:29 AM)
Quite a number of interesting discussion here. But I didn't see Second Law Of Thermodynamic being mentioned anywhere here.
At Time1, we dropped an egg. At Time2, the egg hit the floor and broke to pieces. Assume we had invented a time machine, and we are now at Time2, can we "go" back to Time1 where the egg was intact?
Second Law tells us that this is impossible as entropy (order to disorder, wasted heat) in an enclosed system increases and matching towards maximum entropy.
Says the entropy at Time1 is W, the entropy at Time2 is W+n=X, in order to go back to Time1, we build a time machine, this project takes resources and manpower, and the process of building the machine produces more entropy, all digging, manufacturing, the sweat introduces entropy. At Time3, the machine is created and entropy now is X+m=Y. At Time3, if we travel through time to Time1, the entropy of the total system (at the so called "Time1") would be Y+l=Z.
The moral of the story is Z doesn't equal to W at Time1, as the so called new Time1 is a state with more entropy then Time2, even Time3. That leaves us little room to discuss about travel through past isn't it.
If time travel ever possibe, this scenario inevitably forces us to branch out to a new Time1. Although we back to the timeline of Time1 earlier, we are indeed branched out to a new universe, same time line but different universe, hence the idea of multiverses.
Angel, H. G. Wells's Time machine is a science novel. The idea of creating a time machine can not changes the outcome of the past is not entirely accurate. When the scientist travel back through time, the "new's old time" should be a new state, where he should be able to safe his wife in theory. However, he produced the book in the year of 1895, he is no simpleton and definitely ahead of his time.
Back to the topic, time travel inevitably lead us to multiverse. More and more physicists are leaning towards this and bubble universes, pocket universes are postulated which incorporate the idea of quantum physics and relativity.
One major drawback of this multiverse theory is it is not "testable". Our consciousness is always stick to one instant of the multiverse (ie the universe), eventhough we continue to make different decision of condition branching continously. To us, we always perceive it as an "uni"verse as our consciousness flows though a single straight line of continuum out of the infinite continous branching.
We always tends to perceive that we are the only one who make the choice out of the "uni"verse, which is actually an illusion. We could propose to a partner to marry us, and there are two outcomes, he/she accepted and we get married and have kids OR he/she refused and let assume we remain single the rest of our life.
These two outcomes are quite the opposite and the main point here is "we are not the only one who make the choice for our own destiny, decision branching of others impact our life too". Now, considering we interact with N number of people and everyday everyone make a choice which impact themselves and also impacting us, how could it be possible that there is an only a single state of "uni"verse that we live considering there are NxM conditional branching out there? What we know is there is only a single "uni"verse instant that we could observe, it doesn't mean it is the only instant out there.
Even time travel to the past is happening now, it is unlikely that we even "know" that happened.
Time travel is supposed to be a secret. I would not want anyone to know that I have changed the past!!At Time1, we dropped an egg. At Time2, the egg hit the floor and broke to pieces. Assume we had invented a time machine, and we are now at Time2, can we "go" back to Time1 where the egg was intact?
Second Law tells us that this is impossible as entropy (order to disorder, wasted heat) in an enclosed system increases and matching towards maximum entropy.
Says the entropy at Time1 is W, the entropy at Time2 is W+n=X, in order to go back to Time1, we build a time machine, this project takes resources and manpower, and the process of building the machine produces more entropy, all digging, manufacturing, the sweat introduces entropy. At Time3, the machine is created and entropy now is X+m=Y. At Time3, if we travel through time to Time1, the entropy of the total system (at the so called "Time1") would be Y+l=Z.
The moral of the story is Z doesn't equal to W at Time1, as the so called new Time1 is a state with more entropy then Time2, even Time3. That leaves us little room to discuss about travel through past isn't it.
If time travel ever possibe, this scenario inevitably forces us to branch out to a new Time1. Although we back to the timeline of Time1 earlier, we are indeed branched out to a new universe, same time line but different universe, hence the idea of multiverses.
Angel, H. G. Wells's Time machine is a science novel. The idea of creating a time machine can not changes the outcome of the past is not entirely accurate. When the scientist travel back through time, the "new's old time" should be a new state, where he should be able to safe his wife in theory. However, he produced the book in the year of 1895, he is no simpleton and definitely ahead of his time.
Back to the topic, time travel inevitably lead us to multiverse. More and more physicists are leaning towards this and bubble universes, pocket universes are postulated which incorporate the idea of quantum physics and relativity.
One major drawback of this multiverse theory is it is not "testable". Our consciousness is always stick to one instant of the multiverse (ie the universe), eventhough we continue to make different decision of condition branching continously. To us, we always perceive it as an "uni"verse as our consciousness flows though a single straight line of continuum out of the infinite continous branching.
We always tends to perceive that we are the only one who make the choice out of the "uni"verse, which is actually an illusion. We could propose to a partner to marry us, and there are two outcomes, he/she accepted and we get married and have kids OR he/she refused and let assume we remain single the rest of our life.
These two outcomes are quite the opposite and the main point here is "we are not the only one who make the choice for our own destiny, decision branching of others impact our life too". Now, considering we interact with N number of people and everyday everyone make a choice which impact themselves and also impacting us, how could it be possible that there is an only a single state of "uni"verse that we live considering there are NxM conditional branching out there? What we know is there is only a single "uni"verse instant that we could observe, it doesn't mean it is the only instant out there.
Even time travel to the past is happening now, it is unlikely that we even "know" that happened.
As to your theory, perhaps by the very nature of traveling to the past, the entropy decreases, just as predicted by the 2nd law. You see, 2nd law does not mention how time can be changed or even bent or slowed. It is just a law of states, without even telling us how the state changes. But I can tell you no more, as I would not want to leak that secret..
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