Just a quick reply for now. My opinion is that the video should be available to everyone if it was not deemed to be a private recording and unless TM specific instruction not to show it. One or two of us should not be the only ones who get to see it. Will reply more later.

webdesignempire, let me make this clear to you. On my part, I do not have any doubts about your integrity on this issue. I thank you for doing what you have done. My reference to the point of whether you may benefit from the meeting was justified by saying that you deserve it (if you do benefit) for all the work you have done. So, do not misunderstand by thinking I am against you.

My initial reaction to your summary post was... nothing new for us for the moment at least. We are still in the same situation as before the meeting. I am not targetting you personaly to say you didn't do a good job or doing this for selfish reasons or whatever. I think anyone here who is unhappy with the outcome so far is unhappy with TM, not you. So, don't take it personally.

Your persistance and dtermination to go through this is acknowledged and IMO, if only everyone here ranting all the time put in the same amount of effort as you to the right people, our issues would probably be solved much earlier. Just imagine if TM or MCMC or whoever get hundredes of complaints each day from various users. They will sit up and do something. If not for anything else, to solve it quickly so that they can sit back and relax again...

One thing we should not do is to turn on each other. We are on the same side here. I have dealt with TM for various internet problems over the years and as others have said, they are not easy to deal with especially when they are not forthcoming with info. Some may even say you cannot trust what they tell you. Their explanations are crafted to give you the impression that they are taking the utmost importance on your case when actually they are not. That was why I said that I hope you are not being naive about this. But then again, I do not know you personally and maybe you already have previous experience dealing with TM and so you know what you are doing.


This may be an admirable goal. But frankly, this should not be up to you or any of us. This should be TM's goal. And they have a long term plan. Just how long, they are not saying. Things will be normal later rather than sooner? It is not our problem eg if they need billions of RM to upgrade and don't have that money. Or if what they get from the govt is not enough for their upgrades. Who asked them to be irresponsible and keep taking on thousands of customer if their infrastructure cannot support it? What sort of corporate responsiblity do they have if they allow hundreds of thousands of customers to have poor quality of service for months?

This is the sort of thing that IMO you need to be clear about. You (or we all) do not have the power to "demand" from them. Again, they have their schedule. Eg if they have a 1 year plan, they are not going to solve it in 3 monhts if we demand" it. They will probably come back to you with some date. Then later on, they will extend the date further. And eventually get things done when they have scheduled to do so. Why on earth they are not making an announcement about the current problems and when they expect to solve it is probably because they know people will be unhappy with the far away date they have. That plus they probably think they are not answerable to customers anyway. You don't like the service? Unsubscribe. They can get probably 10 people to replace 1 they lose.

If MCMC needs you (or we all) to make them take action against what they are supposed to be monitoring and have authority over, then MCMC is not doing the job they are supposed to be doing in the first place. Imagine going to a shop and the salesperson does not help you. You have to call the supervisor to complain. The supervisor does not know the salesperson is doing a bad job. What for have the supervisor there in the first place to supervise the salespersons?

webdesignempire, thank you for the invitation to view the video. As I said in an earlier post, on this issue, I have no doubts about your integrity and I do not need to view the video to proof that. Since your summary post did not contain any solid solutions from TM, there is not much point viewing the video now (except as a matter of interest of how the meeting went on).

As far as I can tell from all the posts since #196, (I just re-read previous 45 posts)nobody has accused you of being dishonest or having lack of integrity. You seem to be wanting to defend your integrity by showing the video to a few others. IMHO, this is not necessary to do. I think all everyone wants is to know whether there are any solid solutions out of the meeting, which at the moment it appears that there are none.

So I politely decline your invitation to me. I hope to view the video when you make it available to everyone else.

Any more details you can provide?

What do you mean by zero top-up? Are you saying they are asking you to upgrade or something so that the problem can be solved?

So what sort of solution did they propose to you? Give them a list of your customers using Streamyx so that they can assign better IP / routings to those customers accounts? Thus solving your problem of complaints from your customers?

While it is honourable of you to turn down their offer, this yet again shows that TM is trying to solve your problem and not for Streamyx users as a whole as you are trying to get them to do. This is what andrew9292 was saying, they will go on case by case or individual case basis. They will solve for "troublemakers" so that they stop making noise.

As I said before, they have their own schedule. They are not going to listen to us. All they are doing is to let the time pass by until it is eventually done.

Yes, that is their tactic. You complain, they take care of you. They cannot understand why you need to take care of others. Because they are only used to taking care of themselves. They don't care about others. And we are supposed to be a caring society...?

This is why I have been posting for the past 3 months or so telling everyone to do whatever they can, persist and keep complaining trying to get to the right people. In this case, like andrew9292 case, each one has to take care of themselves.

While you have taken on to do everyone a favour, TM does not see you as being any organized representative of Streamyx users. So they will not bother and work on their own schedule. They will now tell MCMC or whoever that they met with you and offered to solve your problem but you turned it down, so what more are you complaining about?

And as I said before, TM or MCMC does not need you or anyone to tell them things are bad. They know but haven't solved it properly. They don't need time to check on things, they already know. They have probably already met and know what is being done and when it will be done. Users are not told anything because users do not have much choice and they have to keep paying the bill anyway. It is likely that this will take months to have a proper solution, well, it has already been 3 months or so. Can you imagine what would happen if TM said in Mar that problems will only be solved in 6 month's time or more than that? By the time you get anywhere solid with them the problem may have been naturally solved according to their schedule anyway...

But we must applaud your effort either way.

Good. Let's see how fast is the faster pace that they are willing to go at.

Don't forget to suggest how long you think the meeting will take so you can get all points across and show the video. Otherwise they may schedule a short meeting which won't have enough time to cover the issues.


This post has been edited by mylinear: Jun 4 2009, 06:01 PM

Maybe thats when they expect to start using AAG? It would have been 6 months by then with no proper explanation or compensation to users. As I said, they have their own schedule. By the time they delay and give any solid answers, it would be towards the end of their schedule anyway...

As expected, there is still no solid answers. Just lots of explanations which mean nothing in the end.

Where is the actual answer about why Streamyx customers have been experiencing slow connections for the past 3 months or so?

Users don't do trace routes and pings for fun. They are normally only used to check on network connectivity. If TM can provide proper and good connectivity on local and international routes, there is no reason to block trace routes as users do not need to use the utilities and won't cause any additional load (if any in the first place).

This evening TM had a major problem with their authentication servers which caused Streamyx users not being able to login for hours nationwide. Is this called "improve its services endlessly"?

And calls could not get through to support as it was engaged all the time. When calling, it sounds like they are using VOIP? The sound is "shaky" and not very clear. Is this what they mean by "been equipped with the up to date telephony system and other sufficient resources to cater unnecessary call drops. The number of unsuccessful calls is expected to subside at this present month ". Then why was the call center engaged for hours?

webdesignempire, I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that you are finally realising you are not getting anywhere with TM on this. They have already delayed for so long. And now they say that they have met the improvements within a 3 month period??

Go on and try with MCMC now and see what happens. Lets see how long MCMC delays all this...

The fact you are at a crossroad indicates that you are being worn out by TM's behaviour so far. Remember at the beginning you said that you will go all the way and do what it takes? Not so easy. They know that. They are in control, not us. But you have done good so far.

This is the problem. We are not big or strong enough to take on TM, unless there are hundreds of us willing to contribute towards such a task. For example, if their legal dept sends you a warning letter or something, you will probably stop everything because you (or most of us) don't have the funds or time to get into such a battle.

Just Google for pingplotter. There is a free download.

Basic users don't know how to trace route so they don't trace route so they shouldn't be causing any problems even if trace route is enabled. Advanced users know how to trace route and will trace route and will find a way to trace route even if they disable trace routes. So what is the point?? How silly can their excuses get?

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Added on June 9, 2009, 3:44 pmAs andrew9292 has said, TM goes on a case to case basis (although this affects everyone). And as I said, each one must fight their own battle in this case. You may get lucky as your friend above and get your problem fixed so that you will stop complaining to them.

I suspect when webdesignempire meets MCMC, they are going to ask him what TM told him. They will then say that TM has already offered some sort of solution to him and why didn't he take it. They will say don't worry about others. Get your problem solved and MCMC will then look into the broader problem which everyone else is having. Then MCMC (and TM) will get him off their backs. And the regularly scheduled programme will continue again...

As I mentioned before, just think about it. Does MCMC need us to tell them to go monitor and make TM do what they are supposed to do? MCMC has got many complaints from users. What have they done? Have they made any announcements of what they have done or what they are going to do so far?

i am waiting to see what MCMC has to say. Hopefully webdesignempire will post details of the meeting here for everyone to read. Let's hope there may be better results than the meeting with TM.


This post has been edited by mylinear: Jun 9 2009, 03:44 PM

They are following their own schedule.

http://www.streamyx.com.my/whats_new/whats...rticle_20090610

Maybe delay to see what happens with the TM upgrade on 12/13th. Then maybe another delay next week to see what happens with the TM upgrade on 19/20th...

So it did end up being after the next scheduled upgrade by TM on 19/20 Jun...

What IP range are you on?

I would prefer all the updates on this issue be done here in this thread itself so that we don't have to go around reading it in yet another place and since all the previous information and discussions are already on this thread.

TM knows how their customers feel. But what are they doing about it?

While what webdesignempire is doing is appreciated, I have said before that unless a large number of organized users work as a whole, one or two or three people may not achieve much.

Already we have seen the result (or no result) with webdesignempire meeting with TM. Almost 2 months have passed and now waiting for meeting with MCMC later on. I think at this next meeting, MCMC will either say that they are doing everything they can to get TM to comply. But it is not easy. Maybe privately they may say TM is too big and does what it wants or it is a GLC so they cannot do much to push TM or something of that sort, which should not be said out to the public. They will promise to look into the issues and ask to give them some more time and wait for a reply. They will say that TM is actually doing upgrades etc etc and with time things will improve. So we go round in circles again. But in the meantime, the slow connections issues would have gone on for like 6 months without any solid explanations or compensations.

I also think webdesignempire is at a disadvantage because TM had offered some sort of solution for his case. Similar to what andrew9292 said about case-to-case basis. So MCMC won't understand why he is still complaining. Yes, on behalf of other users? That is noble, but ... What other users? Where is the organized group of users? Who are you formerly representing? Which group? Which organization? Which society? I don't think it is good enough to point to users ranting on this forum. They don't care about us ranting here. They are doing what they want at their own schedule.

Don't take offense webdesignempire, but I hope you can see my point.

If you read this before you meet with MCMC, please ask them whether they approve the complaints form.

I ask because although you are trying to help Streamyx users (thank you for that), you officially have no authority to collect such info as you are not representing any official group. You have stated that a copy of the details will also be emailed to you. This means that user's personal info including Streamyx ID etc is being sent to a non-relevant party. There are privacy issues here. Users do not know who you are or which of your staff etc have access to their info.

Just as a comparison (although maybe not a fair one), if users had troubles with banking systems, would they want to fill in a form on a 3rd party website giving their bank login ID?

Also, users have to make a report to Streamyx anyway either by calling or email to TM and get a report number. TM is supposed to follow-up on that. Users can complain directly to MCMC about the report if they want as MCMC also needs the Streamyx report no to investigate.

So, what exactly will the complaint form achieve? It would be a different matter if a user had to fill in only the form and the relevant parties will be notified of the problem. But this is not the case. This is meant for after a report has been made to Streamyx first.

You have also stated that you may not be able to follow-up on all cases. You should not be expected to as this is not your job and you have not been elected to do this job. So users should not get the impression that after submitting the form, their problems will get solved quickly.

Another point is that if this is approved by relevant parties, which it should not be since they should not be encouraging 3rd parties to collect user info for whatever reason. And even if it truly for users to get better responses, there should be a separate site / domain used which is not linked to you directly. There should be no advertisements etc on the site. No personal details, except a report number, should be required. That is all that is needed for MCMC etc to follow-up. Surely you are not going to follow-up with the users and hence need personal details? Surely you are not going to follow-up with TM on behalf of the user?

I'm sure many will not be happy with what I say above as they think that their problems have a better chance to be solved using this method. At this point, I do not know if that may be true. I have to say though that if anything, MCMC should have a similar form on their own website so users can fill it in after making their Streamyx report to TM. A 3rd party does not need to get involved. This is their job, not yours. Show your form to MCMC and ask them to put a similar one on their website. That may be a better way to go about this.

Again, appreciate you volunteeering but you have no official capacity to represent users. I hope you appreciate the feedback.

Name, phone no, email address, user id is already personal information. Of course you would not ask for passsword, nobody will (or should) fill in the form if so. But a username is already half the equation of login details.

Users must call the center or email them to get an report no. That is the first step. No report, no further complaints will be entertained properly.

Since a Streamyx report no should be provided, a user needs to make a report to TM first to get it. Otherwise it is pointless to send a complaint to MCMC. So the form should not be a substitute for making a report to TM. TM also has their own procedure to take the report after asking for info from the user etc. That will not happen properly with this form.

Again, I am sorry to say this but you are not the representative for users. Unless you have some direct connection and have some sort of guarantee that user problems can be solved if they submit it to you, this will give false impression to users. Unless TM and MCMC has selected you to be a liason for users, I don't see why anything different can happen than users reporting directly to TM and MCMC.

As I said, your idea of the form may be a good one, but it has to be run by TM or MCMC or a proper consumer group or a official user group to have a proper effect. Not by an individual / company / 3rd party with no authority to do so.

Again, IMO:

1. No 3rd party should have any user info.

2. Even if it is a easy way to report, it should not be done on a 3rd party website. Users have no idea what the info is being used for, even if you don't have a copy, you cannot prove that since the form is on your website and you can do what you want in the background. I am not saying you are, just that you are not authrorized to collect such info. Yes, in the end it is up to the user, but still I don't think it is right.

3. Suggest MCMC has such a form on their website, not yours.

4. In post #343, hhbks posted about another user wanting to start a user group and that you should get in touch with that person to see what can be done. There really should be an official user group if this is to be done properly.

I really hope others will post their opinions. Most of the time people don't like to disagree on the forums as they think they become unpopular. But I think we should all listen and respect each others opinions even if they differ.

I'm sure we are all waiting to read your results from the meeting.

Could you please give more details on what you mean by:

"lack of some information "
What information did you have to clarify?

"actions are in place and on schedule"
What actions did they mention?

"announce it pretty soon"
Announce what?

"the exact date and time until further confirmation"
Confirmation of what?

When you have some time, please give us more details of the meeting. How long was it, what was said, what questions were answered, did you show the video etc etc. We have all been following this and waiting for some answers, so more details would be appreciated.

So, are you satisfied with what MCMC has told you? Or are you going to proceed to higher ups?

Can you share with us what MCMC suggested to you?

FYI.

http://web3.bernama.com/ssig/news/fullnews...423&news_cat=sn