1. Long funds are passively killed in the market in bear market but cant outperform in bull market because they are followers and inability to realized the profit.

2. Hedge funds are even worst since more than 90% hedge funds managers do not have clear concept on "hedge", they simply don't know how to make money in bear market. However, hedge fund managers are usually too short sighted. They like to take profit too early, so they may not be able to earn the biggest in the bull market.

3. Fund managers are only employees, earning salary/bonus every month and year. The money in the fund is not belong to them. So THEY CARE ABOUT LOSING AT ALL. They just care winning cos this will give them big bonus. Then they will take as much as risk as possible. This happens especially in hedge fund managers.

Conclusion: I think we should not waste time to discuss funds or fund managers. I think you should just sit back at home, find some ways to improve your investment knowledge such as reading companies annual reports, books about trading. Just to try develop your own sense to look at what is happening in the business world, rather than listen to other advices. I think 85% of people are loser in the investment world, 10% can make some money (small), only 5% can win big. Try to make yourself to be that 5% and if you cant do that. Don't even bother to waste time here. Be a teacher, policeman, doctor or lawyer will be better for you.

Do you agree?

I think one can depend on themselves onli if they have the time plus expertise...

In addition, fund managers r not 'god' - they will make mistakes too...

1. Long funds can only long because they are restricted by prospectuses. Long funds are not absolute return funds and life style funds which can long bonds.

2. Agree, the word 'hedge' in hedge funds is misleading.

3. Agree most of your points

I use funds in the following situations
1. Hot countries/sectors which I have no experience/knowledge/access, e.g. Taiwan funds, gold junior funds
2. Investment instrument available in a scheme, e.g. EPF

If everyone can do that on their own, who's going to throw the garbage for you?

Fund managers are there to serve a niche. For the people who aren't competent to manage their own investments.

try do some survey at OSK or local stock market brokerage office.. some remisier can make you a lot of money pal..

agree.. most bunghulios here don't read enough on any given subject, what's more about money and investment..

whats bunghulios?

when the fund management charge 2-20% of profits yearly + entrance fees i dont know how in the world people think that they are gonna beat the market.

head i win tail you lose.

if i say, except for your health and families, money should be the most important to one's life, no one should disagree. I think over 90% of people are spending at least 1/3 of their lives to make money for any purpose. So i think if someone don't have the ability to invest (actually gamble to win will be more suitable) for himself, you shouldn't touch investment at all. Don't even bother to find those so called fund mgrs to help you to lose money. Just put it in bank, buy a property and work hard in your job. It's because you should take good care of your own money rather than leave it in others' hands.

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Added on May 8, 2009, 9:42 pmLet me tell you how to be that 5%.

1. Under logical arguments, you can hold a different view vs. all others. It's because 90% of the people are wrong in the investment world and this also explains why only few people can win the whole in the market.

2. When you have a different view, can you not be affected by the others? What will you do when all the others, including your mum, dad, wife, children tell you are wrong? Can you neglect them at all?

3. Can you admit that you're wrong when you made mistakes? It translates into "stop-loss". i.e. can you stop loss when you make mistakes? After you stop loss, can you learn from it but forget it after?

4. In other words, can you be a robot, a machine? No emotions at all? I can tell you 90% people lose not because of losing to others, but losing to himself. You lose to yourself, your emotion, your inconsistent behaviour.

Ok, even if you can have the above qualities, i can guarantee you won't lose in the market but doesn't mean you could win big.

I will tell you the qualities to win big tomorrow.

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Added on May 8, 2009, 9:44 pmdo you mean after they charge that fee, they cant beat the market?

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Added on May 8, 2009, 9:46 pmWho can do that? tell me.

This post has been edited by rockcrawler: May 8 2009, 09:46 PM

I would say that, it varies from one another when comes to self-investment. your up-bring would lead u to how u perceive things around u. In other words, it depends on how good is your "eye-sight" in choosing an investment and how smart are u in absorbing information that are not going public so fast.

When comes to investment world, no one can really claim themselve as "GOD" <--- Warren Buffet is exceptional? (You really think so? But he made darn a lot of money. What can u say?)

I personally would say that the element of luck is also very important when comes to investment. Hedge fund managers, yes no doubt they have the knowledge and skills, but afterall it's still undeniable that if u think u can't manage ur own money, and u really wanna give it a try. Why not?

you wouldn't know how pain it is until u fall down. but it's an experience to make us a better person isn't it?

i dunno who is it and dont trade local market, but remisier at your local brokerage does help people trade and return generally is much higher than mutual/any fund. there are many remisier just walk-in there open an account and they usually will ask whether you require remisier service, they'll get commision by help you trade your money.

Thanks!

My point is: If you dont know how to play, Dont Play! Cos it is your money, dont put your life at risk cos Money only comes in 3rd or 4th in one's life, after Family and Health.

I never think WB is a God. His existence was a legadary At His Time. It was by chance someone could also do that by given such a chance at that time, here comes WB. If you study him and his life thoroughly, he has not special wisdom and skill than the majority. To me, I adapt Soros more than WB if you want me to choose a true investor with conquer skills and intellectual to face the wave of time.

Comes to gambling, of cos, Luck is critical.

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Added on May 8, 2009, 10:30 pmFirst, you said:

Then, you said:
Are you alright?


This post has been edited by rockcrawler: May 8 2009, 10:30 PM

But the fact is, when WB says something, everyone seems to believe in him so much. In other words, everyone treats him just like a GOD!
Yeah he might not be that good as u said, but the fact is, he made billions of billions. he's rich, he's brilliant, he's so influential.

This is a FACT. What can u do to prove that he's not good? WE CAN'T! coz... it's the fact. he's GOD. We don't have any "right" to comment on him.

yes u can...
U cannot prove him wrong until u become the world's richest man one day.

Strongly Agree, I never buy any UT or Investment link, simply because they are not a good investor and super high charges. Its a negative + Negative!! Sure lose situation..

Warran also lost a lot of money recently, but of course peanuts to him.

WB is influential doesnt make him a God. Is Dr M our Malaysian God who has been influential to our country history in the past decades, even influenced the people, we particular, our whole life?! Dont simply mention God, the greater power. What the majority think doesnt mean it is correct, it can only be seen as a influence force, but no statement indicate that it is correct thing to do, or I should.

What i tried to share is that: Not all of his theories work or he would have been doing greater than his younger times. The reason he is 'great' now simply bcos it was from His Time as I stated earlier. Put him to us now in our time, he is not an shinny investor anymore as compare to many others.

Understand your point. But as i've said earlier... who are we to comment on him? lolxx... He's the God of investment means he certain has the power to make the financial market up side down. He has the power.

You may comment, critize or praise on anything or anyone you like. It is the right of speech

i had relatives work in OSK, they'll know.. so i know. its same at every brokerage branch, they have their own remisier. go ask yourself, mind you each remisier probably has different approach on the market. some had high risk quick return, some moderate return and some low. find which one suitable for you.

ya that's right in US, not in msia lor.. later u kena catch by ISA then u know... LOL~ shhhh xD