well as i said - even if your premium for the medical rider is indeed fixed, it will reflect the worstcase scenary for the insurer plus a margin to account for errors and inflation. you simply cannot get a better deal than one that is competively adjusted as needed. that is why general insurance health plans will always be cheaper.

as far as i know most policies allow for some sort of adjustment for medical riders. CI is usually fixed premium for life insurance depending on entry age and floating by age band for general insurance.

Any concrete information about this?

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Added on November 26, 2009, 12:04 amPETALING JAYA: Kurnia Asia Bhd reported a net profit of RM32.32mil for the period ended Sept 30, reversing a net loss of RM12.11mil incurred in the previous corresponding period.

This is mainly driven by the strong turnaround performance of the group’s investment portfolio.

In a filing with Bursa Malaysia, Kurnia Asia also attributed the strong performance to an improvement in its underwriting performance year-on-year.

However, group revenue dropped 16.3% to RM255mil from RM304.5mil in the same period last year.

Its underwriting surplus for the quarter was RM3.68mil, an improvement of 38% from RM2.67mil a year ago. Its gross premium year-on-year declined 18.1% to RM231.32mil due to the implementation of more stringent risk selection guidelines.

The largest motor insurer in Malaysia, Kurnia Asia is changing its financial year-end to Dec 31 from June 30.

Executive chairman Tan Sri Kua Sian Kooi said despite operating in an increasingly competitive environment, Kurnia Asia was able to chart positive underwriting performance for five consecutive quarters.

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Added on November 26, 2009, 12:43 amAnyone can tell me about your experience of claiming medical from kurnia?

thank you.

This post has been edited by epalbee3: Nov 26 2009, 12:43 AM

Guys ! A close friend of mine recently bought this endowment plan from ING called PIP12. It was just recently approved and she got the booklet just not so long ago. Inside the agreement, it is stated that she can return the policy and request for a full refund on the premium paid within 15 days from the date of delivery.

However, yesterday was the 15th day (last day of the cooling off period) and she informed her agent to cancel the policy last night. Since she did inform her agent within the cooling off period, will there be any complication for her to make the claim ? Anyone from ING or any insurance experts please enlighten.

She will definitely go to the ING office later today but it'd be good if you guys can shed some lights on this issue. You know ? Just so that she won't be fool by those ING staffs. Thanks in advance !

No problem, if canceled within the cooling off period means full refund. But what if the agent did not notify the ins. co. within the time frame? It btw. the agent and the ins. co. not your friend's problem = full refund

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Added on November 26, 2009, 11:36 amIt depends on the timeframe. If say 5 yrs then it might be more competitive but lets say 15 yrs then there is a big difference in premium. True based on current age, a general insurer will rate it cheaper BUT the premium is not fixed. It will increase 'gradually' as u age, unlike life riders which is abit more expensive but does not increase every 5 yrs.

From what I know, there is no adjustment for medical rider and the only limitation is the lifetime limit, they might adjust your returns but that is another matter and neglible if one uses term or whole life. In order to save guard against inflation, the life insurer will update the premium periodically but this revision is not rectropective i.e. will not affect existing policyholder. I might be wrong as I'm not very familiar with Life policies

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Added on November 26, 2009, 12:00 pmPssst..... there is a thingy called IBNR (incurred but not reported) which is quite synomous with auto policies especially on the liability side (3rd party property & bodily injuries & sue for negligence). K**** have a 'special' arrangement to neglect this item during their reporting - they have a department called special liason to settle this with BNM. It is not so much the repairs of the vehicle that is bleeding the motor insurance but the liability side which is not capped (there is a limitation of RM3 mio per accident but is it actually legally enforcable?) e.g. there was a tour bas accident in 198X, the total liability was RM15 mio and it nearly sank As*a insurance which was the motor king in the 70s. Never really recovered from that 1 claim.

For liability, the claim process is a very long tail item and your $$ is tied down as claims reserve hence cannot be utilised for proper investment. Although Capt. C*** is known as somewhat veteran performer in the industry he cannot turn around this mess in 1 or 2 yrs not even 5 yrs unless they merge or strategic tie-up.

Ask any1 in the industry (not part-time agents but mgmt staff of ins. co.) it is public knowledge.
To properly value an insurance company, one needs to look at the liabilities (incl. claims reserved where IBNR is) and exposure vs. assets and premium. If this is not done correctly or is purposely misleading we end-up with K**** or on a global scale A*G

Looking at the NTA vs. Share price (0.70), the upside is phenomenal, y not put ur $ into it? If you buy-in to all the PR and spin




This post has been edited by rakyat: Nov 26 2009, 12:00 PM

Problem solved. Went to ING office. Though the letter is not ready yet, she did notify her agent about her intention to cancel the policy on the very last day of the cooling off period. So they told her she will still be able to get her full refund. It should be done within two weeks.

rakyat,

no surprise about the increase. this is the case one way or the other (high fixed premium or age band) with life as well. the average premium you pay will always be higher with such a life policy and there really is no exeption besides bad management - simply because it's impossible for the life insurance to accurately predict the future. their guess has to be an "overcharge" - and the longer the period you insure the higher this overcharge will be. there simply is no other way for them to do this business.

most medical riders do have either an adjustment (usually they try to absorb it in ILP or through the savings part so you dont visibly see it but this wont work in all cases either). and even if you have a fixed rate as for example PRU health you will be able to see that their annual premium is significantly higher than a GI cover of roughly the same scope - and i am not talking about todays premium but the average annual premum for the maximum possible tenure that you face.

also bear in mind that life locks you in. you pay high today so tomorrows premium is not sooo high (and the insurance can invest this money too!) - if you decide to switch, you paid high premiums for nothing cause you dont get the cover in the future.

ok.. so in conclusion, buying kurnia insurance is safe or not? will it be protected by PIDM?
Can they delay the claim?

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Added on November 27, 2009, 12:44 amI should say that AIA has higher risk than kurnia, by the way.

I also believe BNM will involve is any insurance company has problems.

This post has been edited by epalbee3: Nov 27 2009, 12:44 AM

this is my personal view only: i would only buy a _medical insurance_ from a big international company who has experience in medical insurance. i would personally not choose a local health cover as my "main" h&s plan. this resentiment might be unfounded but it does allow me to sleep better at night - the international companies usually have more experience, can bundle claims handling by region and as such are usually (not always!) experiecing lower costs, better risk assesment and last but not least can spread the risk across a larger number of people in some degree - yes this is not really the case but to some degree they use the leverage. for example AXA has all H&S issues handled for SEA by a single centre. also the SCO policy is offered across SEA (hongkong, singapure, malaysia etc.) so they can get some leverage there.

Insurance company are under scrutiny by BNM, they must by law maintain a solvency margin. This means the company must have at least an excess of RM 50million of the amt that they insured per business type. If the insurance company does not comply, their license will be suspended until they comply.

Xuzen

[quote=xuzen,May 8 2009, 03:19 PM]I too have Life ILP. I will periodically take out the Accumulated cash to invest in equity directly. But will maintain the Life coverage. When the cover becomes unattainable, I will just discard it and switch to basic term. That is my plan.

Xuzen

[/quote]

Good idea.

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Added on January 27, 2012, 9:57 am[quote=gark,May 8 2009, 03:53 PM]You are right when you said that one should not mix insurance and investment.Insurance is for protection and investment is for wealth generation. I buy my insurance with premiums only, no endowment, no investment, no returns, no nothing to be paid back ever. Why i think that insurance should not be mixed with investment is as follows.

1. When you pay for the ILP's you can never choose the time/amount you want to invest, you lose flexibility.
2. ILP have very poor annual report which they never show you all the expenses incurred and FULL accounts.
3. The fees charged are higher than mutual funds so you do lose out and ILP's are not regulated by BNM.
4. By paying for ILP's you are putting all your eggs in one basket, in which you lose the option for diversification and switching/cashing out, unless you cancel your insurance.
5. Basically by buying ILP, you put your financial future at the hands of others.

Your opinion of mutual fund is inaccurate, in fact mutual funds play a big role in your investment strategy if you know how to utilize them properly.

1. Mutual fund provides diversification, not only for Malaysian stocks but diversification for foreign stocks/commodities/foreign bonds.
2. Mutual funds let you have access to commercial bonds, which is regularly sold as RM 1 million allotments, other wise you cannot afford to invest.
3. Those who buy and hold, or dollar cost average (basically lazy) is irresponsible of their investment, which they deserve whatever they get. Basically if you work at it, investment in mutual funds is a lot of work. You need to work on when the right time to buy and sell fund like shares, or switch to different categories when needed.
4. Not all funds are expensive (but malaysian funds is one of the world's most expensive), so you do not have to invest solely in Malaysian based funds. If you do not fancy mutual funds with high cost, then perhaps a cheaper ETF is the better candidate, which is basically an open fund. Anyway there are a lot of oversea funds you can buy.

I hold a diversified assets, which includes direct malaysian stock, some malaysian bond funds. For non malaysian based funds i own asian ex japan funds, commodities funds, us, europe funds and China A and H class funds.

[/quote]

I agree with Gark.

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Added on January 27, 2012, 10:02 am[quote=gark,May 8 2009, 04:15 PM]You should scale back your risk as you near retirement, means sell of your earnings gradually and invest into bond based funds. If you just buy and hold then, you are not selling when it's high which you miss out all the opportunities to monetize your funds during the boom 2005-2007. If during the good times your friends did liquidize some of his funds, then he might be doing very well indeed. Like i say if anyone tells you that you can get very good returns with low risks don't ever believe them.

[/quote]

As long as you average unit price is higher than market price then it is still consider good depends on the %.

Conclusion: Need to know your average unit price.

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Added on January 27, 2012, 10:26 am[quote=jasonhanjk,May 11 2009, 08:33 AM]Most people don't really understand what investing really means.
Even financial planner today don't know either.

Investing is a plan.
No matter you live or die, stock market go up or down, housing price go up or down.
The plan must work in all scenario.

Scenario A is for a safe and secure plan.
Scenario B is for a plan to comfortable.
Finally, there is the plan for being rich.

To be rich, all 3 plans are needed.
Plan to be rich, plan to be comfortable and a plan for safe and secure.
I agree it's stupid to put all your money in the stock market, it's as good as jumping off the building without a parachute.
Bad financial planner do recommend that but it's the investor must take full rensposibility.

[/quote]

Agree with you.

FD - Safe up to RMxxxx amount protected by PIDM
Bond - Steady Income - Can it close down like Lehmen(Lemon)
UT/Stock/Equity - Investment.

Thanks.

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Added on January 27, 2012, 10:32 am[quote=dreamer101,May 12 2009, 07:00 PM]
How to invest in bonds? Aren't they for high net worth ppl?

[/quote]

constant,

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BSV&.yficrumb=auuw5dfuvav

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lazy-port...mpetition-again
I do not buy individual bond and stock except one stock. I buy stock index fund and bond index fund. For someone in Malaysia to do this, they need to open US Stock brokerage A/C to buy ETF. You need a few K in USD to do this.

Dreamer

[/quote]


Index Fund is not that good in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by Peter_APIIT: Jan 27 2012, 10:32 AM

[/quote]
Index Fund is not that good in Malaysia.

[/quote]

Peter_APIIT,

Then, WHY do you invest on index find IN MALAYSIA?? I had suggested that you could open an US Brokerage A/C and buy ETF.

Dreamer

As opposed to the negative aspects mentioned here, I find Investment-link insurance the most suitable for myself.

I was 23 (2 years ago), just started working (fresh graduate) when I signed up for one and while I know the importance of insurance coverage, my skyhigh commitments+expenses did not enable me to have accumulated savings (eventhough I know the importance of one, yes). So when I got to know the ILP package offered, I chose one with my (optional) riders CI, PA and medical card coverage all covered in one life package with the affordable rate of premium I can manage to fork out from my salary then.

What I really wanted was the medical card coverage and low premiums, and the fact my basic $$ is not burned away. Basically I still get my $1 back eventhough no profits are made with my $1 investment. But the flexibility the plans has to offer and the all in one concept also made me feel comfortable with it. Plus I can upgrade or drop my riders if I want to in the course of time my policy is in tact.

Basically I think its beneficial to those who view it not on the returns they can get but rather, as having coverage provided with low premium rate while giving you an added benefit of investment return as a bonus. If anything happens, you'll get 0% profits but the savings you accumulated over the years still is there. Plus its withdrawable for personal purposes, let's say, paying car downpayment etc and still have the policy continued as long as it doesn't lapse.

So it all comes down to what do you actually want to get from it. If all you want is higher returns, ILP is not really a recommendable product to satisfy your need, instead look it at the POV of coverage provided.

My personal advice though in consulting an agent, get one who don't see you totally as an investment on their part, but rather they seek to share it because they care for you. An agent that values you as a friend is the best. Compassionate and trustworthy agents who does this for the good of society rather than their interest exists, but you have to search for them and have an eye to discern them among the rest. :)

Also, I personally think its a good start for young working adults and fresh graduates who started working to take undertake ILP based on their flexibility of package. Just my 2 cents though :) Its good enough to force those without savings habits into becoming one, I'm one of the example. :)

well spoken delite . . . i'm totally agree with you
i wont be a full time insurance agent until i find out the beauty of
investment - link insurance

delite,

Questions

1) Out of all your premium payment, how much is going towards investment??

2) How do you know that you get your $1 back??

Do you know?? Or, you just ASSUME??

ASSUME = Make an ASS out of U and ME.

Dreamer

investment is investment.. bound to gain and loses.. nothing is guaranteed, unless its endowment plan.. check ur policy and the quotation given by ur agent..

ILP is not endowment.
ILP normally/generally link to a specific UT fund for investment portion.
If the UT is making a loss.
Your Rm1 will be no longer a RM1.
On top of that, UT charge around 5% initial service charge and 1.5% annual management (for equity mostly) as most ILP is linked to equities type of UT. So you may start off at RM0.95, instead of Rm1.

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Added on February 1, 2012, 9:44 amILP is like traditional insurance + UT combo only.
Nothing to shout about.
Just like you buy Combo meal, give you a little bit extra of chip.
You can have more flexibility if buying insurance and UT separately, aka ala-carte instead of combo.
I don't mean ILP is entirely no good, as the combo product some may like it, some may not.
Just it is nothing to shout about it.

In the end of day, nobody guarantee the UT portion, and the UT portion performance is independent to the insurance.



This post has been edited by cherroy: Feb 1 2012, 09:47 AM

cherroy,

My objection to those ILP is VERY SIMPLE...

It is an insurance + UT combo. Now, if people KNOW exactly how much of their premium went into each part and whether they get extra or less chip, then, it is fine.

But, THE PROBLEM is most people do not know what they are buying. Hence, they may be getting a BAD DEAL but they have no idea...

For example, this "delite" person, he / she does not even know that the $1 is not guaranteed.

Dreamer

Ya, kinda agree, many do not fully understand the mechanism.
I had seen some agents told the clients, you do not need to pay after certain year if cannot afford to or facing cashflow problem, because there are cash inside, but don't understand fully, they might be using(withdraw) the UT/investment portion to pay off the insurance part.
There is no free lunch.

Wait till you see how much premium goes to agent fees, then you even more shocked. I got an Medical ILP quote in which the 'agent fees' alone amounts to almost 10K of premium (over four years if I am not mistaken) and then there are annual administration fee & and other don't-know-what fees as well for a few hundred RM each year.

Straight away reject the proposal.

This post has been edited by gark: Feb 1 2012, 10:33 AM

on your 2 cents, 1 cent is right, the other 1 cent is wrong, best you check with the customer service and not with the agent.