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 The premium selvedge jeans & raw denim thread V1

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TSmofonyx
post Dec 14 2008, 09:11 AM, updated 14y ago

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I thought I should start a thread about my favourite and most popular piece of clothing, selvedge (or selvage) jeans.

What is selvage denim? "Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vinatge loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

What it looks like, picture of FullCount denim (of Japan) selvedge shot courtesy of www.blueingreensoho.com

user posted image

Notable brands include Levis LVC, Samurai (Japanese), Full Count (Japanese), Sugarcane (Japanese), Pure Blue Japan (Japanese), Skull, Imperial, The Flat Head, some runs of Evisu (Evisu No. 0, Evisu No. 1, Evisu No. 2, Evisu Deluxe, Evisu Brown Box), Dior Homme (MIJ - Made in Japan, MII - Made in Italy).

Overpriced denim include 7 for all Mankind, True Religion, most of Evisu

I own a pair of Levi 501XX 1947 and soon to be blessed with a pair of contest Full Count 0105C, pictures can be found here: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showp...24&postcount=22

Selvedge denim care:

Soaking before wearing.

Buying raw denim requires a pre-soak in warm water 40 - 50 deg celcius to remove starch and all to get rid of all the shrinkage before wear. It should be noted that some jeans shrink below the tagged size (i.e. Levi 501XX '47 shrinks from a tagged size of W32 to W30, which then stretches back uncomfortably to a W31.5). Most Japanese denim shrink well into the tagged size (i.e. Fullcount 0105 tagged size of W31 measures 33inches, which then shrinks to W31). Sanforized denim will not shrink upon soaking, and semi-sanforized will only shrink a little.

It should be noted that the length and thighs would also shrink on soaking.

You should soak for 1 to 2 hours. There are some who leave it a whole night to soak. You can choose to soak inside out or outside out, it doesn't really matter in my opinion. Some soak with vinegar and salt to get rid of as much starch as they can, I just soak with plain water.

Hang and leave to dry, remember to massage and get rid of as much water as you can before hanging because indigo dye may run if your denim carries a lot of water while it hangs. You don't want that to happen.

Washing.

Most denim enthusiasts would tell you that if you want maximum contrasts on your denim, do not wash them until they really need to be washed (6 to 9 months before first wash). This makes it quite difficult for Malaysians, I know. It is best that if you cannot wait 6 months for your first wash that you send it to the drycleaners.

However, there are enthusiasts on the SuperFuture denim forum that have shown amazing fades with monthly washes! So you can do that too if it makes you happy.

Wash gently, use cold 30 deg C (or 40 deg C maximum) with soft detergent. Set the washing machine to no spin and gentle cycle as you don't want the washer to destroy your denim and the dye. It is recommended to turn your denim inside out when washing. Fold it well and line it along the sides of your washing machine.

Alternatively, for a softer wash, you may handwash your denim. Add detergent to water and swirl it until it starts to develop foam, but not too foamy! Too much detergent would damage the denim (bleaching due to phosphates). Remember that it is important to rinse the jeans thoroughly before drying and wearing as residual soap would increase wear and tear.

As with soaking, massage as much water out as you can before hanging to dry. Some enthusiasts recommend against hanging it in the hot sun (Malaysian sun is very hot!) which would cause the indigo dye to boil and affect your colour. This is hardly a concern as you wear your denim in the sun everyday anyway. I would hang it in the shade, though.


This post has been edited by mofonyx: Dec 14 2008, 11:36 AM
lucifah
post Dec 14 2008, 09:39 AM

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I have some collection. later upload my indigo blue 501 Big E reproduction (2000 last issue) with vintage cotton twill (and of course the famous red selvage), with all the features - single stictch in seam, hidden rivets for the backpockets, full copper rivets (new ones use stainless steel back) and a stamped pocket, the top buttonfly shows only one underlined singe digit (one digit denots single stitch in seam)

This post has been edited by lucifah: Dec 14 2008, 09:44 AM
TSmofonyx
post Dec 14 2008, 09:59 AM

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Awesome, would like to see some denim porn.

I'm still breaking in and fading my Levis. I seldom wear them now because my thighs got bigger than the jeans, which makes it quite uncomfortable. I'm trying to get as much wear as I can before my Full Count arrive!


jind86
post Dec 14 2008, 06:35 PM

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user posted image

the jeans above is by topman, im not exactly sure if these are selvedge jeans but i really like the detailing of the white and black.. and yes i totally agree that jeans are meant to be washed infrequently.. i've purchased my Levi's 501s about 6 months back and i've still not washed it, i'll see how long i can last wink.gif
TSmofonyx
post Dec 14 2008, 10:47 PM

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That pair sure doesn't look like an authentic selvedge pair to me.


hanhanhan
post Dec 15 2008, 01:02 PM

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reporting in!

how about posting where to get these premium selvedge jeans in malaysia?

currently the only nice jeans i own is a pair of levis fenom..

any idea where to get dior homme MIJ, and the real good evisu? i heard the ones in bread n butter are the euro version and i don rely like the designs
TSmofonyx
post Dec 15 2008, 11:22 PM

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Malaysia would be a bit difficult to find.

If you want jeans from Japan, you will need a Japanese proxy, there are services for you to obtain anything from Japan. For example, Zipangu Treasures. Rakuten.co.jp is another alternative to get your denim.

I believe you can get Dior Homme MIJ in any Dior branch. They would measure 19cm (ouch! skinnies) and are vanity sized (i.e. 30in tagged W29).

Good Evisu are usually imported from Japan anyway, so use a proxy or buy it from a retailer. Bread & Butter is shite to be honest. If you're looking for a sweet pair of Evisu Deluxe, drop me a line and I'll buy you a pair in London. I can get your Dior Homme MIJ from Selfridges as well wink.gif
hanhanhan
post Dec 16 2008, 12:41 AM

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so its not possible to get dior homme in malaysia?

because im reaaaally not familiar with their measurements.. jus wana try it on to make sure. haha
TSmofonyx
post Dec 16 2008, 01:27 AM

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hrmm, trying on selvedge jeans gives you very little idea on how the final fit is, unless it's sanforized.

This is because most jeans are raw and unsanforized. They will shrink after soaking and form a better snug fit.

There is a whole resource on how jeans fit and how you should buy them. If you're interested in getting a pair, I can give you sizing advice.
jind86
post Dec 19 2008, 09:24 PM

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im actually not a selvedge jeans guy.. care to explain the difference of selvedge jeans and why they are considered special compared to others.. thanks..
TSmofonyx
post Dec 19 2008, 11:02 PM

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As mentioned in the first thread

"Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vintage loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink.


TSmofonyx
post Jan 6 2009, 02:52 AM

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bumping this up because people keep creating new denim threads.
SUSTHREEPOINTsix
post Jan 6 2009, 01:34 PM

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ohh... self edge denim

i have an a.p.c NS & hipster, imperial duke blue and naked&famous skinny guy silk

gonna cop some flatheads or dior hommes when i have the money

QUOTE(jind86 @ Dec 19 2008, 09:24 PM)
im actually not a selvedge jeans guy.. care to explain the difference of selvedge jeans and why they are considered special compared to others.. thanks..
*
Selvage or self edge is the term for denims that has been produced on a shuttle loom and since the amount of fabric produced from a shuttle loom is significantly narrower than a projectile loom, the cotton consumption is higher and the time required is greater. In selvage jeans, you will see the actual edge of the fabric where the weaving stops and is finished by the loom, as opposed to denim woven on a projectile loom, where the fabric has been cut off at the ends.

QUOTE(mofonyx @ Dec 19 2008, 11:02 PM)
As mentioned in the first thread

"Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vintage loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink.
*
actually any raw jeans will have that personal touch (whiskers,fades,honeycombings) once it has been abused,worn and broken in. But not all jeans that are raw are selvedge as selvage is just the term used for the natural edge of a roll of fabric. also, not all selvage jeans are raw as they have been prewashed before hand even tho most selvage denim today are unwashed.

TSmofonyx
post Jan 7 2009, 09:15 AM

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Selvage (selvedge) is not equivalent to Self Edge, which is a shop in USA (also having their online shop by the same name).

I didn't say that all raw jeans are selvage, nor did I say that non-selvage jeans would lack the personal touch of whiskers, fading and honeycombing.

I merely stated that selvage has the benefit of adding more character to your wear. Misquoting me makes me very uncomfortable.
SUSTHREEPOINTsix
post Jan 7 2009, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(mofonyx @ Jan 7 2009, 09:15 AM)
Selvage (selvedge) is not equivalent to Self Edge, which is a shop in USA (also having their online shop by the same name).

I didn't say that all raw jeans are selvage, nor did I say that non-selvage jeans would lack the personal touch of whiskers, fading and honeycombing.

I merely stated that selvage has the benefit of adding more character to your wear. Misquoting me makes me very uncomfortable.
*
Selvage=selvedge=self edge

FYI, The word "selvage" comes from the phrase "self-edge", the natural edge of a roll of fabric.
And FYI, i knw that theres a store called Self Edge in San Francisco and ive even been there a couple of times to cop my pair of apc and imps as i reside in south cali/SoCal. Ive even met the owner of the shop before, Kiya Babzani.


QUOTE(mofonyx @ Dec 19 2008, 11:02 PM)
As mentioned in the first thread

"Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vintage loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink.
You were merely talking about selvage denim. and frm your definition of selvage "....and will show more character...." and "Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink."

so, from that context u ARE assuming that all selvedge jeans will have that character/personal touch which is not true as ah ah ah pay attention, RAW jeans are the one would develop all those wear and fades since they have not been prewashed. what made me assume that u thought all raws are selvage and all selvage are raws is that i thought u knew how to distinguish between raw and selvage and knew the difference of them two..that is why when u say "selvage...character" i thought u meant all selvage was raw since only raw jeans will have that aforementioned character. turns out to be im wrong, u had no idea that they have two totally different meaning.

Again you are wrong here :

"I merely stated that selvage has the benefit of adding more character to your wear. Misquoting me makes me very uncomfortable."

selvage doesnt have the benefit of adding more character. its just the edge of the fabric. the fact that it hasnt been machine wash (to remove excess dye and starch) in which we call raw/dry is the one that will add character to the fabric of the denim after months and months of wear, not the fact that it is selvage..comprende,senor ?

Although selvage denim is not completely synonymous with unwashed (raw) denim, the presence of selvage typically implies that the denim used is a higher quality produced on a vintage shuttle loom.

NOW, mister, i think you need to keep an open mind as im not trying to bring you down at all. there were mistakes which are misleading and im just pointing it out.

Again,

1.Dry or raw denim, as opposed to washed denim, is a denim fabric that is not washed after being dyed during its production. Over time, denim will generally fade, which is often considered desirable.

2.Selvage denim (also called selvedge denim) is a type of denim which forms a clean natural edge that does not unravel.

Please please please...theres no reason to be uncomfortable at all since there was no misquoting made in the very first place...what made u uncomfortable was ur challenged big fat ego that kicked in ur defensive mode.

to be honest with you, the very first post of this thread u made contained so many errors and misleading statements. im just being nice of not correcting it for the fear of humiliating you.

This post has been edited by THREEPOINTsix: Jan 7 2009, 02:36 PM
SystemWorks
post Jan 7 2009, 05:40 PM

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wut abt RMC. anyone heard abt this brand before?
TSmofonyx
post Jan 7 2009, 08:54 PM

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Yeah probably. Also, maybe my fking messed up sleeping hours and medicated sleep has got to me. Apologies. I should really not reply to threads anytime past 12am.

You were mentioning that not all selvedge is raw. It was already apparent to me that they do not always overlap. My post was merely stating the benefits of having 'selvedge' and what 'selvedge' would bring to the table. 'Selvedge' gives you more character when worn. In an ideal world, all selvedge denim should be raw, because stone washed is a crime. 'Selvedge' does not merely describe the edge of the fabric, it also signifies that it came from an old (vintage?) loom (usually), and the benefits of being woven in and old (vintage?) loom bears more character - irregular weave, tighter weave, slubby-ness etc.

I was just stating the benefits of having 'selvedge' in terms of denim, which is character (assuming raw, read: ideal world), which was in response to answering jind86's post. I failed to address (admittedly) that some selvedge can be 'not raw' (cooked? ha), but I probably didn't realise this because... who would pay for stonewashed jeans? Then I realised that this is the general public, not enthusiasts like you/me.

Good post, now that I'm awake. You seem to know more than me, but you were picking apart my post anyway. wink.gif


Added on January 7, 2009, 8:57 pmAlso, I've never heard that the origins of selvedge came from self-edge. Thanks for enlightening.

All in good nature? smile.gif


Added on January 7, 2009, 11:03 pmAlso, by all means point out the errors on the first post. I shall edit them in due time.

It's a forum after all.

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Jan 7 2009, 11:03 PM
SUSTHREEPOINTsix
post Jan 8 2009, 09:11 PM

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fair enough.
hanhanhan
post Jan 8 2009, 11:49 PM

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so lets say if i want to get a nice natural fade, honeycombing n creasing, its best suggested to go for selvage denim which are raw, right?

and probably the character will be more visible after a year or so?

good discussion there, but all that i've registered in my head is that self edges on jeans signifies that the denim used is a higher quality one, right? because honeycombing n fades can also be 'done' on normal raw jeans
TSmofonyx
post Jan 9 2009, 03:53 AM

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Well, yeah, generally it would give you a higher quality because of the characteristics from the vintage looms as described above. It's more desirable.

Not all selvedge denim has selvedge. A.P.C. has a pair (New Cures?) which tapers a lot at the bottom so the selvedge is cut off. It's a selvedge denim without the selvedge, I guess.





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