be realistic lar cash back in the next 5 years....

5 years is a long long time

I understand your point, in real world, there is always grey area and loophole people exploit on, typically eg would be MLM business model. On paper, MLM is another way of doing business, but a lot of pyramid scheme/scam exploit the MLM structure to do the ponzi scheme. So sometimes people find no way to distinguish whether the MLM is a scam or not until when found out, might be too late already.
Anyway OT already.

How company and people play with loophole will be another story which is the Securities Commission/gov job to tackle it. Need a lawyer to discuss the term of 'investment' and classification of it.
To be fair to them (Securities Commission), it is difficult to tackle at the root because those loopholes won't be revealed until it become ugly and reveal their truth face. Just like xx MLM business say business is profitable and enable to give you a monthly return of 5%, but in actual scene, it might be a money game on those 5% return is come from late comer/joiner money only, while company not doing business at all or business is not actually profitable, merely use business as camouflage. So it is not easy to find out in the first hand for outsiders. But as rule of thumb, there would be no business in the world can guarantee any return rate to you except FD/bond interest only. Anything too good to be true, then would be smell fishy already in the first place. (Don't mean must be scam, just fishy smell that prompt one suspect)

Don't get me wrong, I don't comment any on STG issue until it is clear, that's what we want to find out.

I merely or we need to state everything on paper first then proceed with it, so that we can discuss it step by step to find out the legal issue of the scheme aka in this thread STG prepaid and eat issue. Whether it uses the loopholes or not, then we can discuss further afterwards also not too late, right?

So first issue on STG:
1. It is not an investment
2. It is a public prepaid scheme then got approval from BNM or relevant authority?

So second question need to be answered.

Aiyoo...of course lah ....i'd tols you it is written in black n white and stamp by lawyer....better you come and read it ,,,,

Stamp by lawyer is meant by it is deemed a contract between both parties only. Just like people use lawyer to do tenancy agreement and S&P.

It doesn't mean, what we speak of legal issue at the previous posts aka when STG issue public prepaid voucher then is it or not the prepaid scheme is against under Malaysia law/SC rules, or BNM ruling.
I have posted this question many times already, still no answer given, instead answer given always 'pusing' again. I still stand at a more neutral point to find out it.

But please don't use 'come and read it yourself'. It won't serve much good in the discussion in this forum. As everyone just post the line like that then no discussion can be proceed from here. Instead if sincerely want people to find out more and have better understanding picture of it, then should at least tell people this contract means xxx issue and this contract is meant for what purposes and who are the company and risk of people taking up on it. I don't think it is hard to type a few lines of the contract clauses. It is much better than an answer like come and read yourself. No offence.
Then when people clear about it, then surely the people will reduce the suspectibility on it. We just want to find out more and clear about the issue for the best of interest of general public.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 2 2008, 09:55 PM

I agree on getting the legal issue sorted before going messy into the business operation.

In fact, I am curious on one issue. As this has been checked by SC and BNM, why not these two bodies do not continue the investigation to validate the business nature?


For your information, my elder brother's friend has invested "some" money into it and my elder brother seems to be interested as well. I am trying to get some legal information on this here.

Thanks.

Kim Hoong,

What SC shared with us is, via the website, they couldn't see any investment nature of the scheme and hence there is nothing much they could do about it. HOWEVER, if we still are seeing it as investment, or being presented as a form of investment, we can still revert back to SC for further clarification. From my dealing with SC so far, their are pretty responsive.

I have drop a note to consumer association, see what we get from there.

Securities Commission said it is not an investment, so if it is a public investment then it already violate the the rules/law already. So it is not a legal investment if it is an investment.

There are thousand and ten of thousand of company out there, even investigate one by one (one per day), 10 years also can't finish. Normally they will investigate into something when it become high profile and lot of complaints from public.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 3 2008, 03:01 PM

If the operator is unwilling to disclose the info asked, then there is no point to invest in. And it is your money counts, not theirs.

Malaysians like to take the risks, even though warned many, many times before. They look for what supposed to be good , and ignore the likely actual bad results.

This is our culture, hard to change.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jul 3 2008, 01:53 PM

The agreement is between members and STG on terms amd condition of the membership of course and frankly we don't need that kinda Sc and BNM thing if you ask me. You need conformation? better go ask BNM or SC 1st. Wah you want me to type few pages clause here? well this is p n c between members and STG so if ppl want to be members then they had to read it themself. As i mentioned, it is about what you get for this coming 5 years after purchasing the membership of rm3000.

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Added on July 3, 2008, 9:06 pmso kimhoong you sure got the chance to read the agreement right? pls let us know if you'd read it and give us some opinion....thks.

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Added on July 3, 2008, 9:07 pmwell since when this is an investment to you? do you consider time sharing hotel membership a investment?

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Added on July 3, 2008, 9:12 pmin the end of the day..its kinda weird as i see from what your asking. This is all about a membership bought as a prepaid food and you get some reward on being a regular customer that's all and do it got nothing to do with invest or not invest...if you keen on investment better you go invest into something like mutual/share or anything that's is license by SC, right..and why you all keep come and ask me is this a investment??? you top up touch n go Now and use it later is that simple...you buy prepaid food and use it later thats all...so what legal issue you need here? now i'm confuse by u guys.....

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Jul 3 2008, 09:12 PM

siliconwiper.com,

I do not have the chance to look at any contract. That's the reason why I am concerned about it as my elder brother seems interested.

So, this is NOT an investment. This is NOT a MLM business.

What is it? Let me guess, it is a PERSONAL AGREEMENT between the "individual" and STG?

So, "IF" anything bad happens legally, it will only be a civil case, NOT a crime case.

I know that I am having a lot of "assumptions" here. Correct me if I am wrong

Hi Silicon,

Do not ask me. Your job is to answer your members as above.

I am not the management of this company.

Eat and get paid ( and paying RM 3,000 ) could be an Islamic scheme if you call it. But what is the purpose of behind a purpose, the members have the rights to know.

kimhoong,
in this case, better ask your elder brother to take a look wat's in the agreement. it is a membership agreement between the member and STG. The anything bad happens refers to wat situation?

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Added on July 4, 2008, 2:24 amWhat is the purpose behind? well all i need to know as a member is by paying Rm3000 and get prepaid food rm3000 (given mthly basis) and then wat i need to do is to eat in STG at least once in 3 mths time so that i'll received an advertising reward of RM150/mth...so since i've been their customer for the past 10 years..well i guess this is a very gd reward for a loyal customer like me.

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Jul 4 2008, 02:24 AM

Suppression of information is a crime, that includes giving out false information on non existence outlets with no lease agreements.


So there is a purpose behind a purpose.


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"My friend just rang me to tell me there is NO lease with Time Square, Mid Valley or Genting. Isn't this even to prove that STG or SC is running a scam ? Or maybe SiliCon created this lie ? (Now SiliCon can defend that I did not find out from those places but only HEARD if from a friend. YES, I trust my friend but NOT SiliCon or SC or STG.)"

Quoted from a forumer, and I hope he does not mind.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jul 4 2008, 08:55 AM

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Added on July 3, 2008, 9:12 pm
you top up touch n go Now and use it later is that simple...you buy prepaid food and use it later thats all...so what legal issue you need here? now i'm confuse by u guys.....

[/quote]


Top up touch n go or prepaid phone card do not provide/promise you for any cash return. Hence, those who willing to park the money on the above because it is needful. Honestly, without that promise of additional RM 6000 cash return, do you really think people, including yourself, would want to park RM 3,000 to pre-pay your food for the next 5 years????

Precisely, who will be top up their prepaid TNG up to Rm3,000.

If STG offers prepaid Rm3,000 for public to buy that's mean pubic fork out Rm3,000 first before eat, so why need to prepaid, can't just pay a few bucks or even hundred everytime take the meal? unless something extra benefit or so called return or special discount <--- which can fall into grey area.

People use TNG for convenience purpose to access tolls, buses. Still people top up until reasonable usage amount only, not Rm3,000 in one go. STG prepaid of Rm3,000 only can take the meal at STG. Sound not logical to buy a Rm3,000 just to take the meal in one place.

Still TNG needs BNM approval for taking public money as prepaid, if not mistaken as said by Jean72.

Yes, even TNG need approval and is approved by BNM with max purse size of RM 1500. Refer to the link below for easy reference


http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=17&pg=671&ac=581

Ok, let's me reframe all things together:

Some of the issues are explained by other forumers:
So STG or as Siliconwiper explained :
1) it is not an investment.
2) it is not a prepaid
3) but it is a prepaid membership. As claimed prepaid membership is not as same with prepaid scheme for public.


That's true, prepaid membership is not same as public prepaid, nice loophole. If offer to member, then can get rid of public issue. Something grey area that let lawyer to tackle on this. Don't get me wrong here, as long thing/issue is not violating the law, then on paper everything is fine.

So your prepaid membership of RM3,000 can become Rm6,000 (in cash? or voucher?) So if it is a cash, the STG need to generate 100% profit in 5 years time, that's mean 20% p.a. which Warren Buffet also can't guarantee their shareholders this kind of return rate. Err... STG guarantee it in the contract clause? I don't know and clear about, that's why I ask.

So if RM3,000 can become Rm6,000 cash (if it is in cash), (if it is only in food voucher different story), then this is not classified as investment? Then what should we called it?

Cheers

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 4 2008, 02:00 PM

Cherroy,

That's what i have been asking...with RM6,000 cash return, what else to call other than investment?

Silicon been confirming more than once that the RM 6,000 is a token of appreciation/form of advertisement fees, being paid to the members for being supportive. I don't know their biz nature stated in their M&A...it has to be somekind of public membership biz in order for them to be able to have these so call advertisement expenses to be tax deductable. And to be such biz, they do need some kind of licence? or they don't? I am not sure...

hate to agreed with Chatwarrior on the statement above..but it be very well the case...

So, like he/she rightly pointed out - invest / prepay at your own risk.

[quote=SKY 1809,Jul 4 2008, 08:40 AM]Suppression of information is a crime, that includes giving out  false information  on non existence outlets with no lease agreements.
So there is a purpose behind a purpose.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My friend just rang me to tell me there is NO lease with Time Square, Mid Valley or Genting. Isn't this even to prove that STG or SC is running a scam ? Or maybe SiliCon created this lie ? (Now SiliCon can defend that I did not find out from those places but only HEARD if from a friend. YES, I trust my friend but NOT SiliCon or SC or STG.)"

Quoted from a forumer, and I hope he does not mind.

[/quote]
It is written in the Coporate Journey Magazine lah..so the magazine also make this up?

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Added on July 4, 2008, 7:43 pm[quote=Jean72,Jul 4 2008, 11:43 AM]

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Added on July 3, 2008, 9:12 pm
you top up touch n go Now and use it later is that simple...you buy prepaid food and use it later thats all...so what legal issue you need here? now i'm confuse by u guys.....

[/quote]
Top up touch n go or prepaid phone card do not provide/promise you for any cash return. Hence, those who willing to park the money on the above because it is needful. Honestly, without that promise of additional RM 6000 cash return, do you really think people, including yourself, would want to park RM 3,000 to pre-pay your food for the next 5 years????

[/quote]
so? if a company are willing to pay you for eating at their restaurant? OK?

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Jul 4 2008, 07:43 PM