I notice throughout this thread that "Art" and "Design" is being used interchangeably. I may be wrong, but I think it may be a misconception that "Art" and "Design" are one and the same.

"Art" as I have always understood it, is an expressive rendition - whether on paper, canvas or even on stage. Poetry is a form of art. Dance is also art. And somebody walking over a piece of canvas with a punctured tin can, can also be considered art if you're into that sort of thing. "Design" however, is more functional than expressive. While to purpose of "Art" is to express, amuse and entertain, "Design" has to be more hardworking than that, and quite possibly more intentional too.

So, it's probably difficult for babies to design anything, though I'm sure they can express themselves artistically.

Another thought: Somebody stated early on in the thread that a good design need not be explained and got quite a bashing for saying so. But I think he may be right. Sure, design must have a clear purpose and objective. Behind the work, should be the rationale that led to its creation, but this must eventually be projected and communicated by the design piece itself, without requiring a lengthy presentation. Otherwise designers will be very busy people. Can you imagine you, a packaging designer, standing by a supermarket aisle explaining to the housewife why she should buy that pack of sanitary napkins wrapped in your beautiful design - just because your works need to be presented to be understood? No, I think a successful packaging design must function the moment it sits on the shelves. It needs to grab Auntie's attention first, and imply to her that the product inside will be everything she hopes it can be.

But different kinds of design disciplines serve different kinds of function. Some need to stand out in the crowd. Some need to be easy to operate. Some need to take up as little space as possible. But in all of it, it should look good as well.

Now Art, however, really just needs to look good.

As for the initial question on our design industry, like someone said earlier, there's plenty of disciplines out there still largely untapped. It's not all advertising or web designs.

This post has been edited by thatjames: Apr 9 2008, 01:04 PM

Agreed. Design has its own processes, own principles.
Art however is more freestyle, does not require much thought.

about the industry, its harder in malaysia as art is not appreciated as much as overseas. It is, however growing, but with people that think only of value of the paint cost and paper costs which makes the painting worth Rm2, the market is going to face some difficulties.

I agree to certain extent.. but.. try saying that again when you have a family to support, car to pay, house loans to pay kids education, saman to pay.. etc..

This post has been edited by singleguy: Apr 14 2008, 03:45 PM

dignity 1st, money 2nd.

i will not be bribed
it doesnt mean i will be poor if i put money 2nd.

try to say money 1st when half the world looks down on u man, the other half will look down on u as well lol.

I agree with this as well. Sure it's all good when you're designing and enjoying it and get paid if you're living with parents. I have friends living alone in KL, a salary of RM1.5k a month is just ngam ngam enough to survive for paying rent, bills, food and toiletries. He's not even driving.

Another friend of mine has a family to support, a wife and daughter. He also has a house, car, and his other necessities to maintain. He was my studio manager, but his salary was never enough. In the end he left the studio for a better job.

Trust me, your principles will change once you have people and things in life that rely on you for support and maintenance. I've seen the changes in fellow colleagues and I'm already slowly changing. I still draw for a hobby, but when it comes to working I will only work if the salary is adequate.

No one will look down on you if you say money first for the welfare of your family, children and your future. Well the case is different if you're just plain greedy or playing dirty for the money. :/

we can start debating now money or dignity lol but of course we humans are always selfish enough to want both so I think neither will win =/

by the way, I do think people nowadays are reluctant to pay a good sum of money for some design work. And it costs quite a lot to study it too, as well as the materials..

if you don't gain enough money to support your family, where's your dignity within your responsibility towards your family ?

family first, bring your heart home so when family first, money first.. and i agree with what kiraneko said,

" No one will look down on you if you say money first for the welfare of your family, children and your future. "

i'm agree with kiraneko too..
people will respect ypu if you did the right thing with the money..
use it for your family,give enough education to your children or give a bit to the needy

interesting to read all these feedbacks

I was a creative designer in 2 companies, creative director in 1 and now i'm a lecturer also a freelancer. let me share my experience so u guys can see how my life is as a Malaysian designer [but then of course i'm just one of the many out there....]

payment wise really depends on ur skills both communication and technical. but, another factor contributing is also wat kinda company u entered. when i was in a publishing company, payment was a bit low [1.5k] because its my first job after graduation and we had to stayback almost everyday catching deadlines. tired! but everything pays back when one of the books i designed received an award from MKBM [majlis buku kebangsaan]. not so much on the reward [shared with the company], but its d recognition and appreciation.

then i entered a telecommunication company as an in house designer, trying to run away from the tiring publishing world. started out only 1.9k. but after a while, promoted to become a team leader and payment increase. BUT d kerja was quite.... demanding i shall say? i pity my babies at home not being able to see much of their mother. and another thing, being a designer in a NONE design or artsy environment i ahfto admit it was really really hard for me, especially in terms of practising my knowledge in design and to suite to bosses' taste. u apply whatever d heck design elements and principles and grid layout or wutsoever, the BOSS will eventually change it to his preferences [and most of it were sucky!]

then one event managment company offered me to become their creative director. YES WOW the name. DIRECTOR already! but we merely haf any other designers except for some freelancers, so basically i am director to NO ONE but ME. but the good thing about that, i design, i make decision and i cracked under pressure.

then suddenly my alumni called me to go back to my old college, they said not enuff lecturer. so oklah i go back there. and to my shocking, payment wise is much higher for a start! complete with EPF, and kerja very easy, teaching zombies who always forget the way to their classes. the only not-nice thing is we have to stayback everytime there's an event and it is usually tiring having to cheer and clap hands all the times hahaha

so.....
an excerpt of life as a designer in malaysia......

agree with on that, me too trying to cope up with all the lastest there
that available on the market, these make more to improve our skills for the needed...

No need to go that far ........Just joking a bit actually....



This post has been edited by n0v4m4r1n3: Apr 16 2008, 07:54 PM

got luck =D. which college u from? =D

haih~~ malaysian designer are all so underpaid!!

now i'm helping my father to design banners and buntings for him and the payment is quite enough for me..i get RM 200 for a banner i've designed..
as long as you know what to do with your talent,you can get benefit from it..
and now i'm thinking of making web designing business with my friends

For me I think it's only influenced by our cultural background, exposure, and mainly working ethiques. In the local scene, the design industry may had started in a way and prolonged to a certain situation that it's hard to alter and compromise, such as the common low pay, long working hours, and limited space for ideas to be expanded and realized. Everything's so according to a conventional method although new technologies had been introduced. In the end, it comes to all business without a chance for exploration. Sad indeed =(