good points phizzy.

If anyone's been around long enough, its interesting to see that within the last 5 years there is a flux in change of mindsets. Alot of young people are looking for alternatives and really don't want to work for corporate structures anymore. I'm not going to infuse my own comments here whether we should or not, but I do realise there is actually a huge chunk of the industry thats appears to be invisible.

Most design colleges and universities every year continually want their students to win awards and go to Oglivy, Leo, BBDO, etc, but actually there are other parts in the industry that are in actual demand and dire need for designers that no one notices e.g. ever wonder who designed the whole row of clubs/pubs at asian heritage row (Flams - 3 months back I heard they were looking for designers), or echo park who are looking to hire designers to expand their hip hop label (3 months ago they were also looking for designers and probably still are) and a whole lot of others. My point is other than just joining top agencies there are many alternatives because lets be frank, designing annual reports and brochures for big telco companies aren't exactly a wet dream.

All I'm saying is there is alternatives and the times are changing, better take notice.

this indeed is true.

I'm in the Web Design industry, quite often we see people throw prices. price that makes you wonder how they could even make a decent living.

dont say throw price...i also sew a lot advertising agency wanna lower down the price... i meet few agency be4 ask me come out the design 1st without any agreement and also ask design for cheap and wan fully flash + animation imagine a fully flash + animation web cost 8k+ and they want it at 1k .. keep telling us say the company no budget .. but actually they give a lot budget on it and the agency want to mark up a lot.

its sad how most companies esp in msia overlook that designers are what makes the company. without the interior, fashion, graphic designers, what would the in-house company be? imagine if one day the designers decide to go on strike or sth, business will definitely be put to a halt. thats why i wonder why designers are not as appreciated as they really should deserve

now a days got a lot design, web hosting or advertising company sell their web design at low price around 500+ even 300 also can do a site already...but of coz what you pay what you get...but now those company where got care about this

that one is freelancer or supplier fishing for a deal. but i'm talking about in-house designers. where the companies make money by selling their own brand instead of selling service.

lol.. guys everyone can designs.. even the babies can. its depend on the target audience... the aims and goals of the design. CAN THEIR DESIGN FIT TOGETHER WITH THE CONTENT? .... those out there who claims to be a designer must know and have the knowledge on how to deliver a design for their target audience... there is no such thing that a design can have a huge target audience.. it must at least have a range of target audience..

thank you

how far can msia design field goes? will it grow better? or will it goes worse?
a lot msia designer are gone for oversea better jobs and paid. . .
sometimes im wondering if im even under paid in my company. . . =.=

there you go.
another problem spot in why our design industry is in such a state. apparently now, EVERYONE can design.
great.

i am superman.

Everyone can design no doubt about that. A few philosopher believe that everyone is born as an artist, so do I. What he said is partly true as well, design is about communicating the message and in order to do that, you have to put your demography and psychographics into consideration. But thinking that designing is just about your target range is wrong, every factor is important for the effectiveness of communication.

yes it is true that everyone can design, however there are like 50% in the world who do not understand art and claim their self they can design, there're only a small amount of artist/designer who acknowledge the design and truly know what is design. This information i got after watching the veteran designer who been designing before we were born, it got some interesting point saying pencil replace by a mouse, because most fresh designer using mouse to design instead sketching it first. Helveltica

My point here are, most fresh first year designer who gone through basic training, such as color, software (Illus CS3, Photoshop CS3, flash etc etc), basic design concept etc etc. If student design aren't that good, it is okay for first year student, cause at that point they are at a point of learning stage, but for second year student, your design MUST have professional design, if the student can't come out a concept strong enough u will fail no matter how good ur skill are. it is like when a lecturer asked u to design kid website, but u do it like metallic futuristic design which look awesome cool, but rejected by the lecturer cause it doesn't relate kids website, it is suppose to be playful design.

I've seen some student who graduate depend on their talented classmate, or some student who copy exactly the same design from elsewhere, I've seen some student who do website assignment pass up a template design, only modify a few layout which can be done for only 20min max, u know what tick me, that they all graduated and got a "pass" which humiliating to our designer society.

I do not blame on the low salary or low payment, i blame on lecturer marking criteria aren't that good. You may think, so...they are not going to get hire anyway, well... Some bad designer has good persuasion skill which has no problem in Malaysia, u know how to talk... u can make money. Remember some bosses are china bosses they look for cheapskate designer so they could make a profit out of it, I dunno about u guys, I've seen some website design not in HTML,ASP etc, I came across a website when my boss told me this need to be redesign, it is done by a freelancer who used flash to do the website instead using html format to do it, u may think it will be interactive? No, the design layout just likes a any normal website which u can done using HTML but The freelancer has to choose flash to do it which look horrible, u cant copy content inside the flash either even in contact page I can't copy anything. =.="

I think when I am ready for the next 5 years or so doing designing; I think I am going to become lecturer or part-time tutor. It is for the greater good

The remark was very contradicted. Art is a very subjective matter, you cannot claim that you truly understand art. It is just principle and matter that helps you to make a communicative design.

In advertising world, you have to convey the right message, so that's your part in designing. But if you are painting or illustrating, you need to design the colors, composition and other elements. You notice the differences between these two? That's is why everyone can design, but it depends on what you want to design and what it's for. The One Academy makes this very clear, so you aren't the only one who notice the problem here. If you haven't notice so, the full name of TOA is "The One Academy of Communication Design".


But you making yourself sound like you could change the whole thing and feel humiliated just because they don't understand certain things. I don't have to say more, but this is too arrogant. You couldn't be a good teacher like this.

Im sad to saw this post...im a fresh graduate...and i've decided to work at design field but u guys tell me that be designer is no future....

It's not "no future", but you have a lot of people to compete with so if you emerge victorious you'll be fine.

There's a lot of fields in design so if one field doesn't work out, try to venture into another one that's similar to what you want.

This post has been edited by Kiraneko: Apr 7 2008, 07:58 PM

Design so big, what you wanna do? Stickers, Painting? Airbrushing? Drawing?

Just do what you are good at.

Actually its kinda de-motivating when you are underpaid and overworked.
There will be an obvious lack of job satisfaction when u dont reap what u sow.

One of the contributing factors can also be the "Chinamen mindset" of the boss. Pay peanuts expect award-winning jobs, yet not willing to allow enough time for proper brainstorming and planning. Everything is merely stock photos, copy design, fast job.

I will have to really rethink about what my future. Passion can drive me to only a certain extend. In the end of the day, I will still need to bring food to the table.

thats true. i'm a fashion major, yet i have had a graphics job before. finding "holes" to squeeze into my preferred fashion line...

I do sound i want to change the whole thing huh? u might say this is too arrogant? you sounded like this will never be done and it is clearly sounded llike i did not study communication design before plus your reply doesn't relate to the topic, u just post this reply just to slam me?

Anyways, I did not claim myself truly understanding art, if you truly claim everyone can design, then you explain to me why Malaysia design industry getting lower pay? u might say, yes everyone can design, these word make me wanna puke, if a designer job taken by others who do not know anything about art, then what we designer suppose to do? Playing chess? talking about designer, I always believe anyone can draw, but not everyone can design fresh new idea, not just slapping a image and pick a font and color and wala! My master piece. If u go oversea, the design industry are quite good, I have been to Europe, going beyond boundaries i have never seen, while i was in Germany, i saw alot of really good billboard poster, every TV ads i watch gave me emotional feeling, these tv ads you can't possible Google it, if you can read foreign language then you could can go ahead, other then that, we have small chance to find that tvs ad i like. I've been to everywhere, exploring.. Venturing and exposing myself, which gain me knowledge.

If you would kindly reply my message by giving me facts, not theory. If ur next post doesn't relate to the main topic, I would shutter myself a enjoyable silence.

This post has been edited by Plant: Apr 9 2008, 01:13 AM

Let me start by bringing up the statement you just said earlier on. Do you see the contradiction? Everyone can design but some don't. This is a very crucial issue here, if you want to teach and you tell your student the same thing, you end up slamming their head instead. The problem here is that you only see design as commercial design, they are varieties of design problem and solution depending on the purpose and needs. Where is the statistic that there are about 50% who do not understand art and claiming themselves designers? I see this statement as a very provocative arrogance.


Would you kindly explain why my reply doesn't answer relate to the topic? I replied my answer in relation to your question which relates to the main topic, because I have found out that what you said wasn't wholly correct.


Sure, you did not claim, but your statement of saying how things suppose to be made you look like one. See the moment you contradict yourself, you start to bias on the other side. Let me say one thing about the advertising industry in Malaysia, the history of advertising in Malaysia is not the same as the western. I would assume you know this and agree with me in this case.

Now, you can have 20% of the population in your country to be educated as truly fitted commercial designers, but could you educate the rest of the population to understand what is best for a smart selling? How they could benefit from the ads, and how their profit could boost up the payment for these designers? Few of our client understand this, if you can make a good design in this country is not enough, you have to educate your client. Do you see the problem now? It's not a one sided problem.


I'd be kicking myself if I have said that you are just a cock talker, but I actually solute you for your thoughtful attitude towards our design industry. But your undervalue judgment to some people makes me disappointed. Everyone has the potential, it's whether you water the seed to let it grow, or put them under extreme condition to grow. You could make a better teacher if you teach everyone like how you water the seed. That's all that I need to say.

This post has been edited by einstei: Apr 9 2008, 09:20 AM

everyone can design but some don't, i did say this information i got after watching veteran designer say it, it remind me of course they are large amount of people just like u who make a fuss about it, all he say was i dont a give a damn and smile. As for commercial design, there are no originality, you have to accept that to create such great commercial design needs inspiration, thats why we designer need to go out and look for sample books, magazine layout, etc etc to inspire the design and create it your own. It is not provocative arrogance, you will have to look the other way around.



I will agree with u this case but, i want to make to clear you move away from the topic and gone to the one academy, why choose the one? i mean there are others good and bad art college out there, as goes for the nice amount of fees we need to pay, while in return we get low pay. nowadays, studying design getting expensive, why spend these money to learn in return getting screw? It is not same as western? why we build cyberjaya for the first place? why MMU was build in the first place? I do recall our previous PM says that we have alot of talented designer in our country, he take that chance and make it possible but soon resign which leave cyberjaya a desert place.



U see one sided problem, i see the other way around it, why can't we educate primary and secondary school about art? I mean almost everyone watch TV, there are always a commercial ads comes in by promotion their product, in msia i only see big company do these tv ads... if you talking about small company who want to promote their product, they need to pay the station to broadcast it and other payment as well, they only stick to one track mind, saying ohhh why i need to broadcast my ads, we dont need designers to help us, just wait the newspaper reporter come in and we can see it in the daily newspaper. They is no profit if client spend too much on TV ADS or whatever commercial design, even create a website, client will say "wah so expensive ar, where got such thing one.. " instead of, "okay, whats your plan? why i need YOU to design for me, any benefits i get out of this?"




Actually about cock talker, u are one of them. As i see blabbering about ur metaphor and others, it is waste of my time and effort to go either.