Sunshine Empire has all the characteristics of a scam company. High return (so high it's crazy).

Once your money is in... it will never come out. The company will persuade you to keep re-investing your 'money'/points. Then when you try to take out your money, there just an endless dragging to pay you back. They'll drag & drag & drag until one fine day... poof, it just disappears.

My advice is don't do it, for your own conscience. Listen to your instinct, m8. If you came here to ask, that means there's something you suspect is not right. If it is too good to be true, then it is.

My mom went to it's seminar. It was nothing but mind-twisting jibberish. It never detailed it's business plan/concept for everyone. Just talk cock only. It just lightly mention this and that about it's 'business'.

If you really want to invest, you will want more details than that. Ask for prospectus, annual report, quaterly report, financial statement, shareholders' report, investors report, search the website, google it...

And the session is organised like a college club style. Fun and mind-twisting, trying to herd everyone into writing cheques together-gether. It's almost like a cult. They way people behave to make the payments is like a stampede, they are all blinded by money.

And where's the receipt? Where's the proper paperwork? Why do you even need to convert money into points?

ARE YOU REALLY... REALLY SURE YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN ALL THESE?!
Better be safe than sorry. There are better ways to invest your money.

P.S. and don't keep quiet about this. Tell your friends and let them know the risks (there's actually no risk, it's guaranteed you kena scam), before they pay the company.

Just went through their marketing plan in their website.
And it looks like a typical pyramid structured plan.
And SC does not approve pyramid structured plan. Thus my note on why SC is blocking it.

Until SC clear it's "restriction list" it would remain illegal.
Quote from SC website.

Sunshine Empire has all the characteristics of a scam company. High return (so high it's crazy).
= Ya, high return, for us. But for company, it just took out their 10% of monthly profit for our member only. I also taking risk for get those money, NO RISK NO GAIN!!!!

Once your money is in... it will never come out. The company will persuade you to keep re-investing your 'money'/points. Then when you try to take out your money, there just an endless dragging to pay you back. They'll drag & drag & drag until one fine day... poof, it just disappears.
= SE company never dragging for paying out the money since it was start paying out money at September of 2006. Every 10th of month will transfer it to your membership account. You can transfer out to your bank account anytime that you want. It took 7 working days to 14 working days for process transfer money to your bank account. It never later than the days that promise by company.

My advice is don't do it, for your own conscience. Listen to your instinct, m8. If you came here to ask, that means there's something you suspect is not right. If it is too good to be true, then it is.

My mom went to it's seminar. It was nothing but mind-twisting jibberish. It never detailed it's business plan/concept for everyone. Just talk cock only. It just lightly mention this and that about it's 'business'.
= Never detailed it's business plan or concept for everyone? Are you sure? You listen before? Tell me which day you go for listen. Once is business introduce program seminar, another one is marketing plan seminar, does it listen all those seminar? At marketing plan seminar, it will detailed out all those business plan or concept for everyone.

If you really want to invest, you will want more details than that. Ask for prospectus, annual report, quaterly report, financial statement, shareholders' report, investors report, search the website, google it...
= We are not share trading/financing or mutual fund. These kind of business you can ask for annual report, but not for MLM business. Even Amway, at market almost 30 years, also din have annual report let you see.

And the session is organised like a college club style. Fun and mind-twisting, trying to herd everyone into writing cheques together-gether. It's almost like a cult. They way people behave to make the payments is like a stampede, they are all blinded by money.

And where's the receipt? Where's the proper paperwork? Why do you even need to convert money into points?
= Receipt? Have! What kind of proper paperwork do you want? T&C? We have two points, one is EP, another one is MP. Per EP mean per US Dollar, u can transfer it anytime. MP is for buying items at their company internet trading center name EmallEmpire (www.emallempire.com), you want top up, u have to buy with ur EP.

ARE YOU REALLY... REALLY SURE YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN ALL THESE?!
Better be safe than sorry. There are better ways to invest your money.

P.S. and don't keep quiet about this. Tell your friends and let them know the risks (there's actually no risk, it's guaranteed you kena scam), before they pay the company.
= Guaranteed kena scam? SE company scam you before? Scam your friend that beside you before? Tell me which business is no risk.

I have join lot of MLM business before, I guess every MLM business also look like pyramid structured plan. But it's different, try read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme. Pyramid structured is similiar to money games, that mean no product you will get.

SC is blocking it? How they blocking us? Our company still working as usual. If really that illegal, why not come to stop our business and close our company? SC have the power to do this all. Go company analysis yourself, compare the information u get rather than see or listen from outside.

yup, agreed with you

for the others had join sunshine empire, don't re-invest yor money back here

1) AMWAY is a listed company. confirm every year got annual report.
http://www.amway2u.com/corporate/en_US/amabout_corp.jsp
2) any company listed or not also need to have report for share holders to see, if not who the hell knows whats going on with their money
3) Sunshine empire was an investment company, last time no products, no emall, no shit, only selling TAIWAN wireless project which they have no proof to verify its related to them, exactly like swisscash claiming that they are investing in swiss mutual funds
4) boss James Phang is better than Warren Buffett as he claimed, in conning ppl. pls go google for his history, its not only available in the internet but also well known among senior MLMers
5) not possible for a company to promise so high return within such a short period of time, if their project is really that great, really that grand, every bank will send representative to queue to borrow them money. no need to collect investment capital from us the small prawns, correct?

i am not saying that this is a 100% scam company, those are what i found out when i heard about this company almost 2yrs ago.

put yourself out of the company and look back at it from a neutral point of view, see if it still sound so logical to you.

One thing that fell short in our country is the enforcement.
Last time Gold coin trading also illegal; but there's still a lot going on. There's also product to go with the plan.
There's another one previously using the same concept of Gold Coin trading which are paintings. Yeap you get to keep the picture as the "product".
If you're to go through the plans, you'll find that AMWAY and COSWAY are not pyramid structured.
Whereas initial read on the plan published in Sun Empire's site does make it look like pyramid scheme.
So care to share more in depth details about the marketing plan?

Those that got involved in Swiss Cash also got their money and profits. But it's illegal.
Basically everything can earn money; only thing is the "legality" part.
So like you said, LB was listed in SC lists before; eventually it got off the hook because they manage to prove their innocence (though not a big fan of LB cos do not like their business plan). But until that, it's still a warning and typically not safe.
Same as this so called sun empire which you mentioned since September 2006; until now is 1 year.....so when are they going to clear off with SC?!

If they're that legitimate, wouldn't they want to clear it off with SC?! Wouldn't you as an investor or "partner" since it's MLM wants the reputation to be saved?
So what I would like you to ask your company is when are they clearing their name from this SC list? Or what are they doing to rid themselves of the watchlist.
If not, every potential client you met you want to tell them that "yes, we're listed in SC but we're no scam company"?! LOL

Currently there are 2 type of MLM.

Amway, Cosway is also MLM similar type of company, but they actually do sales and product sales did actually generate profit that enable to sustain the 'pyramid scheme' of their commission structure. (We take aside whether their product is overly price and pyramid structure of their commission). This kind of MLM business is sustainable because income for their member is through product profit.
This kind of structure is not against the law and perfectly legal and perfectly ok in business world.

The other one is more on recruitment based, which basically take the late comer joining fee to feed the early bird, this pyramid structure can be sustained for sometimes as later comers keep on joining non-stop and become more and more. But we know, this cannot last forever, once there is not enough late comers joining, the whole structure will collapse as the source of income is the late comers joining fee only. This kind of structure is totally against the law. Previously a lot of pyramid scheme is run based on this structure but had been cracked down by the authorities.

So this kind of company become more clever become a variant that use some products just to make it legal, but the actual company objective is not meant for the product sales, only concentrate on recruitment of late comers. The main income of the company is not the product profit but joining fee so it is not sustainable. This kind of company, any country authorities will find very hard to charge them as they can claim they are doing product sales when come to law on paper but actually they didn't care about the product sales at all. Get it? But we are know it is a ponzi money game.

This are some distinct different between the 2 as mentioned:
The pyramid structured based on recruitment generally will offer their 'investors' a fixed payback/bonus on a period of time so that it looks lucrative and can easily lure people into the recruit.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 25 2007, 05:20 PM

invest in working business doesnt need MLM plan..

Don't know what talking you. SE claimed guarantee return... then you say 'no risk no gain'...
[???]


Why waste everyone's time by having so many seminars? If I want to invest, I want to have all the info as soon as possible so that i can assess whether to put my money in, or not. Why not in proper printed materials, instead just talk and seminars and discussions? You can talk until the cosw comes home and it means nothing.


Eh, you really not thinking right lah. Snap out of yourself. All companies have annual reports. For public companies, the report is open for everyone to read. If the company refuse to let people who wants to invest read its report, then it must be hiding something.

Why not you say all these stuff to a venture capitalist/bank/institutional investor and see how they reply you, eh?!
They'll tell you to get lost and come back when you have a proper investors' prospectus/report.

SE is obviously soliciting people's money to invest (the seminar said so). If you don't have a prospectus, business plan/report, how am I to invest? Just give my money to the company and pray that I'll get it back? Of course I want to know what are you doing with MY MONEY.



I don't know why do you need all these points system when you can trade with real cash/credit.
One reason I suspect is because it's easier to twist and manipulate the points according to the company's complicated policies and rules. You can't do that with real money.

Actually, SE has no risk! It's a guarantee...

Guarantee to hilang!
Bwahahahha!

iamyuanwu... out!
------------------------------
P.S. Good for you if you're making lots of money. I have too much conscience do what you're doing.

This post has been edited by iamyuanwu: Oct 25 2007, 07:00 PM

james phang cheerleaders always told about 'guarantee return'... damm, funny indeed

---

Added on October 26, 2007, 11:30 amHahaha

Better invest in something that makes more sense rather than investing in this company. Come on man, just invest in stocks,unit trust,derivatives,ETF (Exchange-traded funds) or a business. Susah-susah pergi jual burger la.Please don't waste your money.

This post has been edited by amirbashah: Oct 26 2007, 11:30 AM

invest in stock, unit trust got risk, no guarantee of return, this SE so power one, guarantee earn big money. Everyone invest in it, in no time malaysian GDP will double or triple and every one live happily ever after

This post has been edited by robertngo: Oct 26 2007, 04:34 PM

which business with guaranty return ......
if someone can offer u a guaranty on some product, solution, investment and bla bla ...... just don't think and walk away . it not worth the time u spend .....

In the real world, there is no such thing is guaranteed return except may be FD and bonds that's why their return rate is low (still you have the chance of banks default).

Even Warrent Buffett or Coco-Cola, or McDonalds or whatever profit making company also not date to guarantee they will make x% profit each year although they are pretty sure they are going to earn that much.

true enough.
If you said Guarantee Return , then dont say it is NO RISK NO GAIN.

IRONY.

We want to have a good prospective view of a company.

As for annual report , Amway do give the view of Annual report to their member every time once a year ~ maybe 3 times a year? not so sure le.. lol, went to the seminar, did have read about their annual sales report, profit before tax and after tax.

hi guys, i've joined SE for quite some time ... and its really rowks after i understand the whole concept about SE ...
below are few details about SE ....


1. Sunshine Empire is NOT a Financial Investment Company and it does NOT promote any investment product or any investment scheme.
阳光大帝不是投资公司，也不销售任何投资产品或投资计划。

2. All Merchants who misrepresent or spread false claims about Sunshine Empire Business or Compensation Plan will have the Merchantship terminated immediately
and all the status, rights, benefits and privileges shall be forfeited. Sunshine Empire will also take legal action.
对于阳光大帝事业以及报酬计划，所有被确认告知不实或散播错误讯息的加盟商，其会籍将立即被取消，而且所有等级、权利、利益以及奖励将被全部作废。阳光大帝也会采取法律行动。

3. Sunshine Empire empowers YOU! to operate as an Independent Business Owner, to build your wealth and success using Sunshine Empire approved platform,
tools, products and methodology.
阳光大帝让你！能以独立加盟商的身份，运用阳光大帝的指定平台、工具、产品和商业模式，建造你的财富和成功。

4. The speed and scale of your success is a direct result of your own effort and performance to generate sales volume and production.
你的业务发展的速度与规模取决于你在促进消费量和业绩的真诚努力与表现。

5. CONSUMER REBATE PRIVILEGES ("CRP"): These are our return to you from the profits derived from all consumption generated on the e-Mall Platform.
Sunshine Empire will reward you with e-points that you can use. Over time, you can have the privilege of receiving the total of not exceeding 12,000 e-points.
消费回馈奖 : 这是我们对你在购物网站的总消费所得利润的回报。阳光大帝将奖励电子积分供您使用。随着时间的推移，你可获得总数不超过12,000 电子积分的奖励。

For illustration purpose: - CRP is based on 10% of Sunshine Empire Global Turnover on the e-Mall Platform:
下例用以说明：CRP基于阳光大帝购物网站全球销售额的10%：

Prime Status/优等级 5% 3% 2% Total Rebate Not More Than/总回扣不超过
BP 1 Share/份 - - 300 e-points/电子积分
SP 5 Share/份 1 Share/份 - 2250 e-points/电子积分
GP 20 Share/份 4 Share/份 1 Share/份 12000 e-points/电子积分


6. CONSUMER LOYALTY PRIVILEGES ("CLP"): These are our return to you from the consequential profits generated from resources resulting from the worldwide efforts
of our Most Valued Prime Status Independent International Merchants. Sunshine Empire will reward you with e-points that you can use. Over time, you can have the privilege of receiving the total of not exceeding 60,000 e-points.
消费者忠诚奖 ("CLP") : 这些是我们根据最有价值优等独立国际加盟商在全球赢得的利润对你的奖励。阳光大帝将奖励电子积分供您使用。随着时间的推移，你可获得总数不超过60,000 电子积分的奖励。

7. All Rewards Privileges are dependent on the Sunshine Empire worldwide performance. They are NOT GUARANTEED and will be paid out at the discretion of Sunshine Empire.
所有奖励取决于阳光大帝的全球表现，所以不能担保一定可得、并由阳光大帝全权决定发放。



source - Sunshine Empire merchant page - under re-rentry menu .... u can see the statement ..... GOT RISK ? yeah ... why not ... if there is no risk .. hehe ... must got backup from someone powerful enuf ......


if you wanna know more about SE ... u can go to their office ... No.12 ,Ground Floor,KUB.com,Jalan Yap Kwan Seng .... near KLCC ... if u are interested la ...

This post has been edited by chill: Oct 31 2007, 09:30 PM

You may want to read what Singapore newspaper report on this company



ELECTRIC NEWS

SO WHERE DO SUPER RETURNS COME FROM?
MAS ADVISES INVESTORS NOT TO DEAL WITH BLACKLISTED FIRM
By Alvin Chiang

October 29, 2007




THE returns for this investment is supposedly so 'good' that even famed billionaire investor Warren Buffett can't hold a candle to it.

MrJames Phang, Sunshine Empire's international president, had told The Straits Times in an interview earlier this week that he was a 'legend'.

'I'm very good - better than Warren Buffett,' he declared.


And the company's promises are indeed sweet. It told people at its talk this week that they would get back their $12,000 investment in a year, plus $1,000 every month for the next seven years.

That roughly translates into a 700per cent profit within eight years - compared to Buffet's 21 per cent a year.

That's not all. Each investor would also get $21,000 worth of mobile talktime with Emcall, a local company with links to Sunshine Empire.

The claimed returns are mind-boggling and 20,000 people have signed up here since it was set up last July.

Responding to The New Paper on Sunday's queries, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) advised investors not to deal with Sunshine Empire.

Noting that the company was put on the Investor Alert List last month, a MAS spokesman said 'entities on this list are not authorised by MAS to conduct regulated activities'.

'In making financial investments, we urge all investors to deal only with persons regulated by MAS,' the spokesman said.

'If investors choose to deal with persons not regulated by MAS, they forgo the protection afforded under laws administered by MAS.'

The concern seems to be that Sunshine Empire, unlike other multi-level marketing firms, allows its members to notch up what seem like profits without buying or selling products. This makes its business model look like a pure financial investment scheme.

MrPhang had said that Sunshine Empire is not an 'investment firm'.

If so, then how does it give such super returns to its investors?

A LawNet check showed that MrPhang - described as 'international president' on the company's website - is not listed as a director or shareholder of Sunshine Empire.

It also showed that Sunshine Empire, which changed its name from Niutrend International in January, is a company 'providing entrepreneur and self-improvement courses'.

It has a paid-up capital of $150,000.

On its website, it said it is involved in 'network marketing' and is interested in 'wealth redistribution'.

It also listed offices in Malaysia, Thailand, Korea, Indonesia, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

There are reasons that MAS raises caution to those who guarantee high returns in a short time. In the US, for instance, some get-rich-quick schemes are known as 'Ponzi' schemes, named after convicted conman Charles Ponzi.

He took US$10million ($14.6m) from 10,000 people in Boston in the early 1920s by guaranteeing investors 50 per cent returns on investments in postal coupons after 45 days.

The website of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) noted: 'A Ponzi scheme is essentially an investment fraud... Instead of investing victims' funds, the operator pays 'dividends' to initial investors using the principle amounts 'invested' by subsequent investors.

'The scheme falls apart when the operator flees with all the proceeds, or when a sufficient number of new investors can't be found to allow the continued payment of 'dividends'.'

In other words, money is taken from Ah Kow to pay initial investor Ah Seng. No goods are bought and sold. Neither is the money collected invested in anything.

Ah Kow's position is riskier than AhSeng's as Ah Kow joined the scheme after Ah Seng. This is because the purpose of recruiting AhKow is to pay Ah Seng, but there is no guarantee someone else can be recruited to pay Ah Kow.

But if everything goes smoothly, no one will complain so long as they are paid on time.

Mr Leong Sze Hian, president of the Society of Financial Service Professionals, thinks that such schemes are normally too good to be true.

He said: 'It's very rewarding and lucrative to those who join at the start. But the funds will dry up eventually and the company will close and set up shop elsewhere, or in another country.'

The bottom line and main question to be asked:

1. How company generate enough profit to provide return to their 'investors'?

2. Since it is not an investment company, so the company must be doing some business to generate profit that eventually give it as a return to their investors
Then, what are the company selling since it is not an investment company? <-- this is key.

My dad has an anology for companies like Sunshine Empire.

Imagine there's a law that forbids people from pang sai. If you pang sai, you will be caught and thrown into jail.

The company is now in the stage of stomach ache. Even if the company looked like it's going to break the law, but he still have not pang sai yet, it has not broken the law yet... so, authorities can't catch him. But by the time he really pang sai, he has already gone far, far away.

Same thing here, because the company has not really scammed anyone yet, authorities can't do a thing. By the time it happens, it's already too late.

Bwahahaha, enjoy the story 'Sunshiners'!
=P

This post has been edited by iamyuanwu: Oct 31 2007, 11:01 PM