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 V1. Swiftlet Keeping-EVERYTHING About The Industry, Techniques, Tips, Tricks, Complaints etc

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swift4ever
post Aug 26 2008, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(athlic @ Aug 26 2008, 02:25 PM)
remember your safety features ya. no point having no life while nest a lot.
*
Tunnel method is easier to control safety than those holes on floor for sure.


I only recently bumped into this forum while surfing net. Although 4+ years in to this venture but still learning...
walet1719
post Aug 26 2008, 04:47 PM

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who wan n me exchange sound external n internal add my email :swiftletnest@yahoo.com

This post has been edited by walet1719: Aug 27 2008, 04:48 PM
jefwansk
post Aug 26 2008, 04:55 PM

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RM34/sqft consider cheap as the cost of materials are very expensive now a day, what are u waiting for ? should go ahead .cos $$$ must enough.
SAMGAN
post Aug 26 2008, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Aug 26 2008, 02:06 PM)
Thanks for the feed backs.
Yes, my BH friends also advice me to built the BH wider like 24' if budget is not an issue.  My contractor charge me RM34 per sqft (including material and nesting plank), there will be an additional cost of 4' x 70' x 3storey x RM34 = RM28,560.00. sweat.gif
My BH design will adopt the tunnel method that is, a void area (roving area) of 20' x 16' from top floor to ground level at the end of the building. The balance of 20' x 54' x 3 floors will be designated for the nesting area. 

Is 20' w x 16' d x 42' h good enough for internal roving area ?
( i have a 20'w x 16'd x 9' h foyer on top of the building for the entrance hole )
*
Rm 34/sqft and including planks is dirt cheap price.Contractors are charging about Rm60-70/sqft nowadays.You better be sure the quotes still valid because raw materials shot up a lot.
cheers
West Wing
post Aug 26 2008, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(seeseng @ Aug 26 2008, 01:11 PM)
With current increasing number of BH it's true nobody get full house in standalone or shoplots nowadays in less than 5 years. A 70x20 3 storey may not even full house in 15 or 20 years. Then what for add the 15' to make it 35' wide? The addition if calculate with cost of RM35/sq ft the 3 storeys would cost extra 100k already. Thus this will make the return on investment period even longer. Maybe drag till next generation possibly.
*
Begging your pardon for not agreeing with you. I believe that it all depend on the area whether they are pure harvesters or breeders. If all are harvesters, then 20 years later, there will never be full house. If all are breeders, The Lord will be please and your dream will come true.

In my town, I explain and encourage them to look toward the future and we are proud to say that we have very good result. If 10 BHs in the area have 2000 nests and allow them to multiply, just add 2 and 2, you will see what will be the total birds in the area in 2 years time. It will exceed the number of new BHs in the area many fold. In a few years, many more BHs will have 2000 nests and those having 2000 nest will have 4000 nests in 2 years time. Swiftlets filled the sky and they are happy and so are we.............going to the bank.

I always explain to all my fellow BHs ranchers starting BHs, to invite all their friends and foes into this industry and they see better result with more BHs in your area. That's was 5 years ago and since then, none of those friends that I have spoken to have any regret. They all have over 3000 nest each. Only those far away from the existing BHs see lesser result. Oyes, the onl complaint are those uncooperative ranchers that volume up their sound creating complaint from residents ....all due to advice given by CON sultants that loader is better and one KiSu type having over 3000 nests in 4 years fearing that new BHs will steal his birds. Very stupid, his bird is still in his pant...hahahaha

They must remember to allow the birds to breed as I told them that God will punish them for killing the hand(swiftlet) that feed us. Now, everyone of them are buying more houses and lands to be converted to BHs.

Above are for my believers and if you don't agree, my apologies as I spoke sincerely thru my years of experience and only want to share my little ideas on how to be a successful ranchers.


Added on August 26, 2008, 9:42 pm
QUOTE(SAMGAN @ Aug 26 2008, 09:35 PM)
Rm 34/sqft and including planks is dirt cheap price.Contractors are charging about Rm60-70/sqft nowadays.You better be sure the quotes still valid because raw materials shot up a lot.
cheers
*
Agree, very cheap and can you recommend your contractor to us as we are hit bad by our contractors here charging so high.

Don' tell your contractor that he's cheap so we may get same rate like you do.


This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 26 2008, 09:42 PM
Armoured.Sparrow
post Aug 26 2008, 10:09 PM

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AGREE!!!!!! So, say NO to PANEN RAMPAS!!! mad.gif vmad.gif

Panen rampas = Robbery harvesting

Use good harvesting management (if your nest amount is not over Thousands) with colored stickers to mark certain stage of a nest (eggs, chicks, etc..) every week you go up to your BH, then mark the sticker on your calender. Next time you go up there, just aim on the right nest with aimed sticker color, safe time, safe energy!!!
But if you missed any stickers, then use a mirror to check eggs shells traces.

Agree West??

This post has been edited by Armoured.Sparrow: Aug 27 2008, 09:19 AM
ykltpm
post Aug 27 2008, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(New Bird @ Aug 25 2008, 01:56 PM)
Who is Yong? Like to hear more stories too since new bird as name implies still new in the industry.

Anyway, public forum is a good place to trash out consultant and con&insultant !%$... hehe.

Remember 8 March 2008 tsunami, public forum plays an important part. Nothing else to hide, all striped naked & do nude squad... hehe
*
Hi, New Bird,

I am Yong. In fact, I met that guy before too. A very sweet talker and typical good marketeer, but I think not much stuff lah !
TSseeseng
post Aug 27 2008, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Aug 26 2008, 09:38 PM)
Begging your pardon for not agreeing with you. I believe that it all depend on the area whether they are pure harvesters or breeders. If all are harvesters, then 20 years later, there will never be full house. If all are breeders, The Lord will be please and your dream will come true.

In my town, I explain and encourage them to look toward the future and we are proud to say that we have very good result. If 10 BHs in the area have 2000 nests and allow them to multiply, just add 2 and 2, you will see what will be the total birds in the area in 2 years time. It will exceed the number of new BHs in the area many fold. In a few years, many more BHs will have 2000 nests and those having 2000 nest will have 4000 nests in 2 years time. Swiftlets filled the sky and they are happy and so are we.............going to the bank.

I always explain to all my fellow BHs ranchers starting BHs, to invite all their friends and foes into this industry and they see better result with more BHs in your area. That's was 5 years ago and since then, none of those friends that I have spoken to have any regret. They all have over 3000 nest each. Only those far away from the existing BHs see lesser result. Oyes, the onl complaint are those uncooperative ranchers that volume up their sound creating complaint from residents ....all due to advice given by CON sultants that loader is better and one  KiSu type having over 3000 nests in 4 years fearing that new BHs will steal his birds. Very stupid, his bird is still in his pant...hahahaha

They must remember to allow the birds to breed as I told them that God will punish them for killing the hand(swiftlet) that feed us. Now, everyone of them are buying more houses and lands to be converted to BHs. 

Above are for my believers and if you don't agree, my apologies as I spoke sincerely thru my years of experience and only want to share my little ideas on how to be a successful ranchers.


Added on August 26, 2008, 9:42 pm
Agree, very cheap and can you recommend your contractor to us as we are hit bad by our contractors here charging so high.

Don' tell your contractor that he's cheap so we may get same rate like you do.
*
It's true but your points if apply to first 1-2 generation of early birds ranchers I agree. But with current trend, current increment of BH everyday. With a BH starting number of 2000 nests of course your growth rate is secure. Started 5-6 years ago is a lot different from BH started nowadays. Back then not many competition. Any type of wood can jadi nesting plank, 0 groove also jadi. 1 whole floor 20 tweeters also jadi. Last time "chinchai" do at good area can success. Now cannot. Yesterday's story may not be applied today. The earlier you started the more benefits you get. Even so unfortunate a 2000 nests BH stop growing at all the owner still get at least 10-15kg per cycle. Generally only a handful of areas in Malaysia will have the growth rate like TG, KTN or areas with less development, less air pollution etc. Take for example a new standalone BH just start sound today. The owner's road from 0 nest to 2000 nests is a lot lot longer than early ranchers that started in the 90s. Especially for non-pioneer ranchers building new BHs around pioneer ranchers. Pioneer BH will get most of the population new and old.

Actually my point regarding aeiou228's new standalone is worth or not to spend extra over 100k for additional 15 feet each floor or 20k+ for the addtional 4feet/floor? Will the addtional space help the growth of results? If LPPL why pay more? For a standalone that size over 5000 nests still not fully occupied. Wisely budget reduce the period of return on investment. Paid off the loan faster etc.

RM34 for material+ workmanship some more include nesting planks is unbelievably cheap. Material price hike, meranti shortage etc do it fast if the price is real lah.

Bro West Wing. A discussion forum is a place to discuss and speak out anything we have in mind freely. No definite right or wrong here don't worry.
aeiou228
post Aug 27 2008, 02:37 PM

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Below is the basic sketch of my BH. Please comment or better still, criticise. notworthy.gif
To view larger image, click the image then ctrl +
Attached Image

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Aug 27 2008, 02:41 PM
aeiou228
post Aug 27 2008, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(athlic @ Aug 26 2008, 02:25 PM)
remember your safety features ya. no point having no life while nest a lot.
*
Yes, yes, thank you ! thank you ! Recently one BH owner fell to his death ( tunnel type BH ) in Terengganu. Safety features in my BH will be the main priority.
Ana.kepong
post Aug 27 2008, 04:05 PM

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Hi all Sifu,

Just would like to ask all successful senior/sifu here if you have any idea or experience that a BH nest/birds grow rate will start become secure, steady or gradually increase when the total nest exceeded like 100, 200 or 500? Of course this will consider the micro and macro environment of the BH is in good condition smile.gif


New Bird
post Aug 27 2008, 04:15 PM

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Thks Yong for warning, point noted.

Please correct if wrong. Standalone farm can be considered high risk investment. In the sense that there is no turning back. You have to make sure that there will be enough nest (return) to cover for the cost (investment). You cannot do anything with the building in the middle of nowhere if swiftlets not cooperative.

Whereas for commercial building, you still have an option to refurbish and rent it out at least the ground floor of sell it away for other purpose. Standalone, you can only hope for someone newbie like yours truly to take over if soi soi failed farm after many yrs.

Anyway, what's the probability of success for standalone compare to shoplots type. Based on own observation, seems that swiftlets prefer to stay nearer to towns that in the middle of nowhere.

This post has been edited by New Bird: Aug 27 2008, 04:19 PM
swift4ever
post Aug 28 2008, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(New Bird @ Aug 27 2008, 04:15 PM)
Thks Yong for warning, point noted.

Please correct if wrong. Standalone farm can be considered high risk investment. In the sense that there is no turning back. You have to make sure that there will be enough nest (return) to cover for the cost (investment). You cannot do anything with the building in the middle of nowhere if swiftlets not cooperative.

Whereas for commercial building, you still have an option to refurbish and rent it out at least the ground floor of sell it away for other purpose. Standalone, you can only hope for someone newbie like yours truly to take over if soi soi failed farm after many yrs.

Anyway, what's the probability of success for standalone compare to shoplots type. Based on own observation, seems that swiftlets prefer to stay nearer to towns that in the middle of nowhere.
*
Can't agree more. Regarding the probability of success for standalone, I think is definitely lower because swiflets were first introduced by the hand of God where they feel safer. biggrin.gif
kseng_99
post Aug 28 2008, 07:21 AM

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Swiftlet farming is not as easy as you think any more , most of the people simply jump to this business without thinking three times because after hearing people collecting money just as simple as digging the gold and of course most of the times we heard people say once we got a pair to enter that it will be enough slowly it will increase but How slow????

In now days if you still wish going in to his business , my friend I honestly advise you to think for 5 times before going in and I have some experienced would like to shared a long . I have a friend who already in this business for almost 20 years of course he is very successful most of the times people just wish to steal his bird from his house and 8 years ago a guy who is know as a consultant and people just called him ‘Bird King’ also think like this he started to build his bird house beside my friend building and he fail to attract even one pair of bird at the beginning so modification had been done for almost 6 times he renovate his building and finally until today he only get about 100 plus nest so he goes out and tell people that he manage to get about 10kg of bird nest per month. How I now his production because my fiend worker just enter his house before coz this guy who claim him self as the ‘Bird King ’ ask my friend worker to give some idea on his bird house.

There are a lot of this story repeat and repeat most of the time people do get some bird or maybe their bird house just stop to increase after few years may be it just settle down at 100 plus nest that you will faint coz by a house for only 100 nest you are hard to ‘cari makan ‘ than if you are lucky enough than it set down at 1000 nest that I wish to congratulate you but trust me the percentage to archive this is very very low

So my friend if now days you wish to build the bird house for your children or grand child than you may go ahead but remember you must have enough money to do modification if your bird house are not successful don’t spent them once ,If not you will really suffer ,so think few times I am not here to afraid you but some times don’t simply heard people saying how good in this business but you still have to know the risk in this business. The money where you already putting in is hard for you to earn back .Think twice before going in besides if your self really have that kind of technique and knowledge about this bird , if you need other people hand so your money will be going out like water so is better don’t go for it try find other way to invest beside this field because it is now very hard for you to get a pair of bird.


tongserseng
post Aug 28 2008, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE(kseng_99 @ Aug 28 2008, 07:21 AM)
Swiftlet farming is not as easy as you think any more , most of the people simply jump to this business without thinking three times because after hearing people collecting money just as simple as digging the gold and of course most of the times we heard people say once we got a pair to enter that it will be enough slowly it will increase but How slow????

In now days if you still wish going in to his business , my friend I honestly advise you to think for 5 times before going in and I have some experienced would like to shared a long . I have a friend who already in this business for almost 20 years of course he is very successful most of the times people just wish to steal his bird from his house and 8 years ago a guy who is know as a consultant and people just called him ‘Bird King’ also think like this he started to build his bird house beside my friend building and he fail to attract even one pair of bird at the beginning so modification had been done for almost 6 times he renovate his building and finally until today he only get about 100 plus nest so he goes out and tell people that he manage to get about 10kg of bird nest per month. How I now his production because my fiend worker just enter his house before coz this guy who claim him self as the ‘Bird King ’ ask my friend worker to give some idea on his bird house.

There are a lot of this story repeat and repeat most of the time people do get some bird or maybe their bird house just stop to increase after  few years may be it just settle down at 100 plus nest that you will faint coz by a house for only 100 nest you are hard to ‘cari makan ‘ than if you are lucky enough than it set down at 1000 nest that I wish to congratulate you but trust me the percentage to archive this is very very low

So my friend if now days you wish to build the bird house for your children or grand child than you may go ahead but remember you must have enough money to do modification if your bird house are not successful don’t spent them once ,If not you will really suffer ,so think few times I am not here to afraid you but some times don’t simply heard people saying how good in this business but you still have to know the risk in this business. The money where you already putting in is hard for you to earn back .Think twice before going in besides if your self really have that kind of technique and knowledge about this bird , if you need other people hand so your money will be going out like water so is better don’t go for it try find other way to invest beside this field because it is now very hard for you to get a pair of bird.
*
Partially agree......... but any better suggestion for the better investment ? rclxub.gif
kseng_99
post Aug 28 2008, 08:59 AM

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Maybe go for doing the bird nest processing in Indonesia


Added on August 28, 2008, 9:04 amOr if think that it is too far away maybe at this moment is better to keep the money at your own pocket .Coz any think seem to be to hard and too risky no matter doing bird house or oil palm plantation .So is better to keep yr money at the bank at this short moment any wait for another oppurtunity to come over compare to simply throw away the money in various kind of unprofitable business althought money minght be eat up by inflation but still better to lose the money .Keep yr money wait for other opputunity .

This post has been edited by kseng_99: Aug 28 2008, 09:04 AM
Armoured.Sparrow
post Aug 28 2008, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(kseng_99 @ Aug 28 2008, 08:59 AM)
Maybe go for doing the bird nest processing in Indonesia


Added on August 28, 2008, 9:04 amOr if think that it is too far away maybe at this moment is better to keep the money at your own pocket .Coz any think seem to be to hard and too risky no matter doing bird house or oil palm plantation .So is better to keep yr money at the bank at this short moment any wait for another oppurtunity to come over compare to simply throw away the money in various kind of unprofitable business althought money minght be eat up by inflation but still better to lose the money .Keep yr money wait for other opputunity .
*
If you wish to do that, you must prepare yourself to be troubled 15 hours a day, 7 days a week. Only going big scale, you could earn the quantity advantages and bargaining power in this 'dirty' trading industry. With less than 100 workers, you might have to prepare with at least 2 years of 'volunteer work'. Going large scale you must also have good financial background to carry enough stock to let the production runs without temporary suspension, since what cost the most is the labor cost. You won't idle your production line just because you don't have good suppliers network. It's not as easy as most people think, calculate the cleaned nest price in the shop minus the raw nest price. Even the whole sale price in Hongkong is around RM 7000 top quality for now might not sustain you with all the 'unforeseen' cost in Indon. Setting up a company in Indon with birdnest export license (cheapest price will be around RM 10.000) sweat.gif not to consider tax report fees by the end of the year, also will kill you in the first 2 years. And the cost of your work permit there will be around RM 8000.
So, guys... still dare to try. And managing local workers there is not as easy as we think and just do you have the right technique to process the nest effeciently? Indon is too wild for outsiders...user posted image
It's just not worth it, trust me!

swift4ever
post Aug 28 2008, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(Armoured.Sparrow @ Aug 28 2008, 10:09 AM)
If you wish to do that, you must prepare yourself to be troubled 15 hours a day, 7 days a week. Only going big scale, you could earn the quantity advantages and bargaining power in this 'dirty' trading industry. With less than 100 workers, you might have to prepare with at least 2 years of 'volunteer work'. Going large scale you must also have good financial background to carry enough stock to let the production runs without temporary suspension, since what cost the most is the labor cost. You won't idle your production line just because you don't have good suppliers network. It's not as easy as most people think, calculate the cleaned nest price in the shop minus the raw nest price. Even the whole sale price in Hongkong is around RM 7000 top quality for now might not sustain you with all the 'unforeseen' cost in Indon. Setting up a company in Indon with birdnest export license (cheapest price will be around RM 10.000) sweat.gif  not to consider tax report fees by the end of the year, also will kill you in the first 2 years. And the cost of your work permit there will be around RM 8000.
So, guys... still dare to try. And managing local workers there is not as easy as we think and just do you have the right technique to process the nest effeciently? Indon is too wild for outsiders...user posted image
It's just not worth it, trust me!
*
It is easier to be a swiftlet farmer than a processor provided you don't harvest your nests everyday. Its flexible and freer than many other professions. But then what should our children tell their teachers about this profession, a free swiftlet farmer? rclxub.gif


Added on August 28, 2008, 11:10 am
QUOTE(seeseng @ Aug 27 2008, 01:04 PM)
It's true but your points if apply to first 1-2 generation of early birds ranchers I agree. But with current trend, current increment of BH everyday. With a BH starting number of 2000 nests of course your growth rate is secure. Started 5-6 years ago is a lot different from BH started nowadays. Back then not many competition. Any type of wood can jadi nesting plank, 0 groove also jadi. 1 whole floor 20 tweeters also jadi. Last time "chinchai" do at good area can success. Now cannot. Yesterday's story may not be applied today. The earlier you started the more benefits you get.  Even so unfortunate a 2000 nests BH stop growing at all the owner still get at least 10-15kg per cycle. Generally only a handful of areas in Malaysia will have the growth rate like TG, KTN or areas with less development, less air pollution etc. Take for example a new standalone BH just start sound today. The owner's road from 0 nest to 2000 nests is a lot lot longer than early ranchers that started in the 90s. Especially for non-pioneer ranchers building new BHs around pioneer ranchers. Pioneer BH will get most of the population new and old.

*
I tend to agree more with your view. Just an example, town where I ventured out has fewer population of birds in total than another town about 35km away started at about 6 and 7 years ago respectively. Less developed and less polluted has provided abundant insects to feed on for the later. On top of that, increase in new BHs faster than the later because of more buildings available. cry.gif

This post has been edited by swift4ever: Aug 28 2008, 11:10 AM
West Wing
post Aug 28 2008, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(New Bird @ Aug 27 2008, 04:15 PM)
Thks Yong for warning, point noted.

Please correct if wrong. Standalone farm can be considered high risk investment. In the sense that there is no turning back. You have to make sure that there will be enough nest (return) to cover for the cost (investment). You cannot do anything with the building in the middle of nowhere if swiftlets not cooperative.

Whereas for commercial building, you still have an option to refurbish and rent it out at least the ground floor of sell it away for other purpose. Standalone, you can only hope for someone newbie like yours truly to take over if soi soi failed farm after many yrs.

Anyway, what's the probability of success for standalone compare to shoplots type. Based on own observation, seems that swiftlets prefer to stay nearer to towns that in the middle of nowhere.
*
Allow me to expalin to you why? The reasons are because

In town, it is very safe from predators like owl and its gang..........once they enter, you are six months back from when you start. In town, the only predator is man but then they wait until you have hundreds before they start, that will cause you one or two harvest of nests; your birds are still your birds. In estate, my friend start one in his estate and obviously it is stand alone one. Even before completion of the BH, swifltets started to enter and wahlau, after 2 months after completion, there are about 10 nest and plenty of bird shits around. Then, come the trouble, the nests drop to the ground and there are sign of other shits. Tried so hard by putting light at the entrance and other safety features, till now 8 months, onl 6 nests only...so you know why?
Ana.kepong
post Aug 28 2008, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Aug 28 2008, 03:53 PM)
Allow me to expalin to you why? The reasons are because

In town, it is very safe from predators like owl and its gang..........once they enter, you are six months back from when you start. In town, the only predator is man but then they wait until you have hundreds before they start, that will cause you one or two harvest of nests; your birds are still your birds. In estate, my friend start one in his estate and obviously it is stand alone one. Even before completion of the BH, swifltets started to enter and wahlau, after 2 months after completion, there are about 10 nest and plenty of bird shits around. Then, come the trouble, the nests drop to the ground and there are sign of other shits. Tried so hard by putting light at the entrance and other safety features, till now 8 months, onl 6 nests only...so you know why?
*
As for the owl problem, it can be easily solved by installing an auto-gate with the timer to set close at 7.45pm and open at 6.30am for example. Please note to also design a small hole which fit the size of swiftlet at the central of the gate to allow swiftlet fly in and out in case the auto-gate is faulty.

One of my friends installed this for 2 years and no more owl problem till now and nests/birds grow is consider stable at around 5-10% per month ;-)

Ironically as for the town, I heard few BHs at the town also face the owl problem and the owner is so headache with it. Hope this auto-gate solution can help those who suffer from owl problem ;-)

Moral of story, not only human need auto-gate nowadays, your swiftlet will like it too hah rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by Ana.kepong: Aug 28 2008, 04:31 PM

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