Keep in mind that the 2 year grace period thingy starts from the day the scam starts, not from the day you join. So thus, if you joined on the 23rd month, then chances r much higher that u'll be screwed. Also keep in mind what I had mentioned about targets and duration too. The more successful the scam is, the faster the scammers will achieve their target, and run as well.

I would put it in a way u are right and wrong at the same time ....below is quotes from ur statement which defines that...



according to the scheme, this is wrong....it starts off from the day u sign up and goes till a period of 2 years time ...I am very sure of this as I came across a lot of ppl wishing to sign me up ...hahaha...



wat u said is actually very accurate , but lets not put it in 23rd mth, lets just say u joined later or around the "end of maturity of the plan" or better "around time of the scheme going to die-off" (which we will never know when it will be except ppl who started it off) ...there is very high chances that u are most likely be screwed, problem is it could be tomorrow and next day or next mth, hell who knows.....

This post has been edited by shocker: Mar 20 2007, 01:30 PM

Well, according to any of such schemes, they r also a proper investment fund, and not one of those pyramid scams that will close shop and run away with the money still with them at the end of the day. Common sense will tell u no scam will admit to it being a scam.

Hence, the whatever grace period thingy starts from the day the scam starts, despite whatever nonsense such schemes will tell you.

also, keep in mind that at the early stages of such schemes, not many ppl will know about it as yet. Hence, when there's a lot of ppl who knows about it, chances r that the scheme has already been running for a while.

Thus your reasoning here is wrong.

u could be rite there, but Im not so sure on this....as wat I mentioned is wat told to me by majority of the people who wanted to sign me up...

if top upline bullshited to downlines, the lie will keep on spreading like u say..

yeah, people wont say its a scam unless they fell into one of them....

edit: spelling mistake ......

This post has been edited by shocker: Mar 20 2007, 01:38 PM

I still can't get it, so actually it's legal or illegal to join such "scheme"?

also, you also need to keep in mind that the only way for the uplines in such scams to make money is to recruit more ppl into putting money into the scam.

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Added on March 20, 2007, 1:52 pm

Well, such schemes r illegal, but technically its not illegal to join. Just like how Ah Longs r illegal, but its not illegal to borrow money from them.

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Added on March 20, 2007, 1:54 pm

Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Yield_Investment_Program

and especially this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi

Think about what I had posted earlier too, that the first golden rule about anything to do with finance is in regards to the importance of REPUTATION and TRUST.

Now when you've got a scheme that does its best to not put any physical contact addresses of themselves, what does that tell you about Reputation and Trust.

Similarly, would you put your money into something claiming to be an online bank, but yet has got no proper contact details?



This post has been edited by fyire: Mar 20 2007, 01:56 PM

edit: changed my statement in view of wat moderator said, agreed with him....



u are absolutely rite, on common sense its a correct thinking.....

This post has been edited by shocker: Mar 20 2007, 01:58 PM

Hmm.. something to think about too. Its actually rather easy to just fabricate news or claims like that. But question is, should one wishes to check if its really got backing from the government, or if its really launched by some minister, how does one really get around to checking? Who does one contact? That's part of the scam too. Making the validation work difficult to do, so that although it cannot be confirmed, it cannot be denied either.

A proper and legit investment scheme will put a lot of effort into ensuring that whatever that they claim can be easilly confirmed and validated, as for anything to do with finance, Reputation and Trust r 2 of the most important things.

i'm in lvl 4 dis month...

I see, thanks for the info.

I have seen ppl who wanna sign up more ppl bringing along booklets and newspaper cutting showing proof its launched by some current cabinet minister, won atleast 2 awards some more ....but dont really know the minister's name ....try to find it out tho...

So EM-PAY.COM claims that they r related to IPC. In fact, anybody can claim that they r related to such and such parties. Question for you, did IPC acknowledge that em-pay.com is related to them?



LB, Amway and the rest r legit entities, while EM-PAY from empay.com is not.



So what is the company registration number and the office address of the scammers behind empay.com in Malaysia?



No, privacy services r not provided for free. I last registered a domain just a month ago for one of my clients, so I know. In fact, all domain name information is by default public to all. Its only those who've got something to hide that will take the measures to go though an anonymous party to hold their domain names for them, so the actual owners can remain annonymous.

Think about it, why is it that places like Maybank, Public Bank, in fact, all legit financial institutions do not go through a privacy service for their domain names on the internet?



Wrong, a HYIP scam's only course of revenue is through even more investments coming in from potential victims.



Nothing to do with swisscash, but the biz model is still the same. A HYIP.



Correct, MLM is not a scam, but HYIPs like this is.



So what's their company registration number in China and India, and also what's their physical office address over there?




Oh yeah, no right and wrong in joining, but no wrong in revealing the true facts too, so that others dun become victims

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Added on March 20, 2007, 2:20 pm

Well, once again, how hard is it really to fabricate such materials?

This post has been edited by fyire: Mar 20 2007, 02:20 PM

MEMO

To: EM-Pay.com Members Date: 10 Jan 2007

From EM-Pay.com Admin

Subject: Office Hour

Please be informed that the operating hour of HQ is changed to 9.30am - 6.30pm (Mon - Fri) and 9.30am - 2pm (Sat). During the office hour member can purchase Pin Wallet from the front counter. You can also purchase pin at new marketing office after the office hour. The new office is located at 63-1 Jalan 3/93, Taman Miharja, Cheras (second floor at the corner).

So, these HYIP are meant to be short term.
I think swisscash is one phenomenon.

So for the last time any retard wants to argue? EMPAY IS NOT A HYIP. IF YOU INSIST IT IS THATS YOUR PROBLEM. It seems that person has been burned badly by a HYIP so he is going on a crusade against every thing he sees close to it. At the end of the day, theres only one thing that matters, do you earn or do you lose. Do you see amway or cosway or LB closing even after so many years?

I guess some people have it pounded hard into the core of their brains that all hyips are scam. If you cant find legit ones, thats your problem.

In Malaysia MLM must have a product, without a product you can't even register your company. To check just call the registrar of companies and you will know the registration number and whatever info you need. No need to come around and keep arguing. And while you are arguing, people are earning.

The decision is yours, everything in life is a gamble, its just how you wish to do it. No one forced you to spend your money into anywhere.

Sure, Empay as run by IPC is not a HYIP, but is the empay by IPC the same as the empay used by empay.com? That's the question here, of which nobody has yet to answer.

Amway and LB has got a legit business model, that is why it does not close down, despite their business model being abused. Now, tell me, what is the business model for empay.com apart from masquerading as the empay service from IPC?

If you really think that empay.com is legally registered in Malaysia, why not you provide their own details? Bet u cant Besides, name search at http://www.ssm.com.my/cariannama.php shows nothing registered under empay

So why are you so worked up over ppl thinking that its a scam? If its really legit, then you wont have any problems with what others r thinking would you? The only reason for ppl to get all worked up over others thinking that its a scam id very much due to the nature of how such scams work, 'cause those who join will only get money if other ppl joins as well

So let's face the faces. You're just here trying to convince ppl into thinking that its genuine, in the hopes of finding some retards who will join you in it, as that's the only way how such scams makes money. Their only source of revenue comes from the money that new comers put in. Very much a pyramid thingy.

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Added on March 20, 2007, 3:22 pm

Yeah, and the sad thing is, there's still ppl who go all out to claim that swisscash isnt a scam till today.

Do a google search on HYIP scam, and u'll find heaps of other exampls of such scams currently talked about, and also those that operated and closed down and ran in the past.

This post has been edited by fyire: Mar 20 2007, 03:22 PM

i see a sad person trying to retain his believe in this pyramid scheme

with so many facts given out to support everyone's criticism, one's discretion is indeed useless if iverpowered by greed

thread closed before this become a flaming ground

as for EM-Pay, I believe that this scheme is very similar to many high profile MLM / HYIP cases:

1. High joining fee
2. Members are forced encouraged to find more downlines
3. They hold many events / parties / gatherings
4. Claim to be worldwide, but has no physical overseas address
5. Most web traffic comes from Malaysia (check with those who has access to TM EastGate and netMyne)

This post has been edited by lucifah: Mar 20 2007, 03:26 PM

Oh for gods sake, how can you say empay does not have a legit business model? THey have a business model like RAJA PREPAID. It just isn't on the site. What you haven't seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Which still brings back to the original question. Is the IPC empay the same as the empay that is being touted by the em-pay.com website? If so, why is there no endorsement of the em-pay.com website from IPC's own website itself? Are there even any links to em-pay.com from www.ipcshopping.com itself? And looking at em-pay.com itself, the half hearted attempt to make it look like its affliated with IPC isnt very convincing either. heaps of links that do not work and so forth.

Besides, most important question, where are the physical contact details of em-pay.com? See if you can dig it out. This is the question you've been avoiding, which only a HYIP brainwashed person will continue to insist on it being not important. Anybody who's involved in any sort of investments or involved in capital markets ought to know the importance of reputation.

HYIP all scams :-) one they gain trusted by investor. They will scam n ripped you off