Thanks for your footage. I ve download the video but can't see it. Got to convert it to H.264 avi than only can play from my player. Using back same kbps and file size. I guess the codec is different. Here is your video info:

Created on 27/4/09
size 1920x1080
video H.264/mpeg4 AVC
24211kbps
Audio 48000Hz 128kb/s stereo
Codec mp4a mpeg4 AAC LC

My personnel opinion, the video is clear and the color is saturate. But not sharp enough if compare HD quality but above DVD quality. I not sure how stable is the video without stabilizer from the video I see. Cause the scene taken during standstill. I need the the video is taken during walking and normal steady hand gripping the videocam. If the scene is not shaking too much up and down, or dizzy, the videocam is good enough.

Maybe C-fu expert can give some opinion about this videocam.

Hi, I'm also a beginner in video so this is not so much my advice but my opinion.

You should give the Sanyo HD2000 a try. It costs less than RM3k locally, has mic and headphone inputs and the best video quality at 1920x1080, 60p. There are better camcorders out there but costing much more than this. True, there are some weaknesses, the main one is the poor Image Stabilisation compared with the others. If you are using a tripod, it's not so big a problem but if handheld, you need to have steady hands when panning and zooming!
It has comparatively good low light performance but auto focus is slow at times. It uses only SDHC cards but you can connect directly to an external HDD to manage and view your videos but unfortunately the HDD need to be self powered. You need to connect via a docking station but there are pros and cons on this. Videos are stored as mp4 files and very easy to manage.

As for HD videos, they will look great if you watch them on HDTV. As more and more people are getting into HDTV, HD is the choice of the future. Once your videos are captured in HD, you can watch them in your old analogue TV without any problem but you will not have the quality if your watch your normal SD videos on HDTV. It is better to get started now in HD than later, IMHO.

BTW, I do not work for Sanyo but I am just one for the underdogs and feel that Sanyo deserves more. The best is to try out the camcorders you intend to buy and see if it is OK for you. In the end it is your personal preference and it is your choice that matters. Cheers.

colour not good la. not terang enough. it doesn't pop out lah, and i know the avc format can have really really good colour information.

as for the image quality, i noticed that every 1/2 sec or so the video sort of (artificially) "sharpens" itself for about 0.1-0.2 secs, then jadi tak sharp balik. so when it tries to sharpen itself, you can see a lot of artifacts around the clip. to me, it's actually quite dissapointing, since for the price the video isn't as eye-poppingly good as Olympus E-P1, even if the E-P1 can capture 720p. When I compare side-by-side, the stabiliser, the sharpness, the colour, teruk lah. and both cams are around the same price I think.

for the stabilisation, pening kepala. digital stabiliser isn't stabilisation. better if you use deshaker or any anti-shaking software. i believe you twist your torso and hands as much as you can first, then you turn your legs, then you turn your body again. is that right? i also believe that you're holding it one-handed (another hand might be holding the screen). i can see the screen tilting left and right while turning. i can only imagine how bad can it be when you move with the cam.

BTW, I'm viewing the clips on a big screen, like how HD is supposed to be viewed. so that's why I manage to nampak bits and pieces of the vid.

overall? umm.. the video pretty much strengthens what I said about HD must have stabiliser. HD is pretty much useless without a stabiliser, and a sharp image, as without these two it pretty much defeats the purpose of going HD (AVC). The Olympus E-P1 for instance, not only did it give sharper, richer colour than this camcorder, but its using MJPEG codec for 720p videos which uses less pc power to edit than AVC. Thanks for the video anyway, it made me want the E-P1 more and more


for gun cams like these, i believe it's more stable to hold it like how you would hold a gun (one hand at the side, another below, elbows tuck at the side of your body). I think for a different shaped camera such as these, you might need to experiment on using it differently than how you would use a normal camcorder. if it's too light, add some weight to it so it's harder to shake. might help.


one question, what sd card u using? is it class 6?

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 24 2009, 01:57 PM

C-fu. Can you post some of the video raw footage which you think is good quality, sharp and good color. So we have a guide what we need to look for when buy a videocam. A picture worth a thousand word.

Hi ozak and C-Fu,
Thanks for viewing my video and the comments. The Sanyo HD2000 is the first camcorder I bought and I was shok by the quality as a layman. Of course through the eyes of experts and professionals like you guys in the game, they can see all the imperfections. Anyway, there is no argument that the IS in the Sanyo is very bad compared to the other top brands and this is the major weakness. The image quality may also not be the best but to be fair to Sanyo, it would be good if C-Fu can give his comments on the quality of HD videos taken by the top three camcorder brands of Canon, Sony and Panasonic in the same price range of about RM2800, apart from the IS. It would be a great help to others looking for his first HD camcorder.

To C-Fu. you macam Sherlock Holmes in the way you describe how the video was taken! Actually, I cannot confirm it but you are probably right since the video was taken by my wife and I was not around to see how she handled it. This was one of her first videos after getting the camcorder. Anyway, I'll try to upload some recent videos to see if she has improved her handling. Oh, I used a Kingston class 4 SDHC card but I doubt if that has any effect or does it?. The sharp-unsharp happening you mentioned may be the autofocus at work, just guessing since all was on auto mode. BTW, what program did you use for playing this mp4 video on your big screen? Not many program can run the file at this resolution properly. And thanks for all the tips on handling to improve the steadiness.

Ronald, just thought you may want to know. I use QuickTime v7.6.2 on Mac OS 10.5.7, it plays your video fine. I have not try Quicktime on Windows, I believe it should work. My monitor is 22" 1680 * 1050, I can only view part of video or scale down by half. On QuickTime inspector windows it shows video FPS 59.94, actual Playing FPS 30 (average).

Hi CPURanger, thanks for your feedback. I tried QT v7.6.2 for Windows in my laptop to play the video but it was very jerky. Maybe because it is my old laptop. It is good that you responded so we can now share our views on our camcorders; not so much to say mine is a better one but to point out the pros and cons and special features so that it will be beneficial to other first time HD consumer camcorder buyers.

I actually wanted to get a Panasonic HD camcorder earlier but it was beyond my budget. No question that the OIS of the Panasonic is definitely better than the EIS in the Sanyo since I use a Lumix FZ18 for my still photographs. I was aware of this but since my wife liked the pistol grip and it is only for casual videos, I was not too concerned. (Actually it was because I did not want to spend more as it was for my wife. Hope she is not reading this!) Anyway, how is the HD video quality of your Pany camcorder compared to the Sanyo from your point of view? What are the plus and minus of the Pany from a user's experience?

I hope owners of similar HD consumer camcorders by Sony and Canon can also give their views so that potential buyers can get a better overall picture and finally better videos!

hahahha sherlock holmes I said all that just to confirm, and to let people know how the vid is taken so we can judge the shakiness better.

I was actually viewing few videos from E-P1 reviews by various websites while reading your post.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1/EP1A.HTM
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusep1/page14.asp

and since the price range is more less the same, I figured hey why not do a comparison. and just for the record, i didn't say the camera/video was bad quality. i was saying the (ONLY) image quality was bad compared to the (NEWER, BIGGER LENS) E-P1 CAMERA. i wasn't comparing other stuff, like mic input, audio quality, battery life, handling, etc. if the image is bad, doesn't mean the camera is bad at all.


since the video uses avc video codec, and audio uses aac audio codec, my pc uses CoreAVC for the video and ffmpeg as the audio. I find CoreAVC handles AVC files much much better than any other video codec (even quicktime!). I installed combined community codec pack, then goto the ffdshow video and audio decoder config (in start menu) and then under codecs i right click and set all stable formats to libavcodec. I then install CoreAVC and set it so all AVC files will be handled by CoreAVC, not FFMpeg. But yeah, codecs are a pain to understand and setup if you have no idea of every single function that it does

or, if you want to avoid the hassle of codecs altogether, go and install VLC. when everything else fails, this program never failed on me, not even once. weird video files, weird audio files, partially downloaded videos, heck at one time it even played a hidden (!) video file in an mp3 file which shocked the hell out of me who would've known??? it'll save you lots of frustration when dealing with video files, trust me.

class 4 SDHC cards might not be fast enough for HD footage, but depends on your usage really. Class 6 is faster, and with class 6 there might be less or no downtime at all after you've stopped recording a clip so you can instantly record another one. faster is always better.

since the video is already huge in resolution, and my guess is you would probably transfer it to youtube or dvd, using video stabiliser programs won't affect the end result at all. add some sharpness filter in your editing software, and it will still gonna be really really good quality for dvd or 720p downconversion.

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 25 2009, 01:06 PM

Hi folks,

I'm interested in improving my lousy videography skill. Can somebody point me to websites that have basic video shooting learning?

Thanks

youtube? DIY steadycams, tanglung lightings, diy deadcats, everythings there man.

Hi C-Fu,
thanks for your clarification on your comments on the video so my Sanyo masih ada harapan! Sure it is not the best consumer camcorder in the market but at that price there will be some compromise.

Also thanks for your detail explanation on the system you use but only macam Greek to me lah!

So I install VLC as you suggested but I cannot play my video, just a stagnant picture and only the audio. I suppose my pc/laptop is not up to the mark and it must have some minimum standard before VLC become useful? Maybe is the codec punya hal since I can play my videos using ArcSoft Total Media Theatre.

The class 4 SDHC card came free with the Sanyo so in future I will only buy class 6 cards for use.

Normally I just view the videos in my PC or personal LCD TV (only 19" lah) and also burn to DVD-video so that they can be viewed on normal TV by others. Very easy to do using Nero Vision supplied by Sanyo. Only do simple editing like cutting and joining clips (using the in-camera functions) since too lazy to do other editing and quality already good enough for normal TV. The bad IS is also good sometimes since when my wife zooms and pans very fast, people watching video will pening kepala and it keeps them from falling asleep!

Movie plays OK on my PC, the hardware (Core2Quad 2.5Ghz + Nvidia 8800GT) should handle well. I did try VLC on Mac OS but the video not display correctly. I can't seems to find a good avchd player for my panasonic. VLC works for avchd but it looks as though lines in between ( interlace mode ?). Would like to try CoreAVC, as C-FU suggest.

BTW do you plan to burn DVDs or transfer video file to a hd media player (hardware) ? According to panasonic manual I should be burning DVD, AVCHD DVD or Blu ray for playback. The other alternative is to transfer avchd video to SDHC card for playback, pana's LCD. Anyway, disc seems to be out of flavour these days. I am looking at possiblity of a media player with big hard disk, which can take hd format.

No worries whichever camcorder you buy whether is cheap or expensive, hd or no hd etc, so long you are happy with it . I would say Sanyo's video is not bad, boleh tahan. Only some horizontal shift/jerk. Colors are good, pana seems a bit pale. So far pana is quite user friendly & easy to operate, I use AF most of the time, must try manual. I don't see the minus side yet since is my first camcorder, still learning bits here and there.

VLC doesn't use your pc codecs, so i doubt your pc codec is interfering with it. are you using the newest version? i've never tried this, but might be useful for you to use the 1.0 RC4 version instead of the official 0.9.9 one.
http://www.filehippo.com/download_vlc/tech/

the Greek explanation about my pc's codec setup is actually simple (I think ):


1. remove all codecs and codec packs that you have installed. THEN RESTART.
2. install combined community codec pack. use FFDSHOW/ffmpeg for playing all formats masa setup. and better to choose zoom player to play all formats, this is by far the most advanced media player out there, in terms of codec customisation. if you like simple stuff, media player classic also can lah. some formats also no need codec to play, mpc is like vlc lite la.
3. goto start>programs>combined community codec pack>filters>audio decoder config & video decoder config
4. for each window, click on codecs, right click on the right area>set all format to libavcodec
5. install coreavc, set it so it has the highest priority for avc format. done.

For some unknown reasons, I cannot get VLC to play my videos on my PC/laptop. Since C-Fu mentioned that it is not because of the codec installed, then it must be the PC/laptop is lacking something. I tried to install the trial version of CoreAVC but since it needed some Nvidia stuff, I gave up as my PC is without any graphic card. Anyway, C-Fu is kind enough to give a detail procedure on his PC codec set up so you may want to give it a try.

The Sanyo came with Nero 8, and Nero Showtime (one of the components there) can play the Sanyo MP4 files very well except for those at the highest resolution which is jerky. I managed to find another player, Arcsoft Total Media Theatre, that can play all the Sanyo videos. Maybe it can also play your AVCHD files well.

I store all my video files in an external 3.5" HDD and these can be played back directly on the Sanyo LCD or external TV using the camcorder. I also burn the videos to DVD-videos for watching on normal TV using standard DVD players since it is more convenient that way. Reduced quality but good enough lah. Have not tried burning to Blu Ray since I don't have a BR player. I heard you can also watch the videos on a PS3 directly.

True, true, we must be happy with what we have since the grass is always greener on the other side. Different poeple have difference preference for colors. To purists, the paler colors are more faithful and real while to others brighter colors are larger than life and artificial but many may prefer the latter. But like you said, as long as you are happy, why worry? My wife uses the auto mode all the time and she is happy so I am also happy.

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Added on June 26, 2009, 3:44 pm

I tried the latest version of VLC and I have the same problem. So it looks like I need to upgrade my PC with at least a graphic card since mine is just with integrated graphics. Anyway, it doesn't matter at the moment since I found a player that can play the videos as it is, Arcsoft Total Media Theatre.

Also thank you for the detail procedure on your pc codec setup. Will keep it for future reference in case I need it later. Should be useful for others who have powerful PC setups.

This post has been edited by ronaldkwok: Jun 26 2009, 03:44 PM

HD video is costly. When you decide to go HD, Many thing you need to upgrade and change. TV, player, PC .etc. All spec must high. Money also fly. All my pc and laptop cannot play HD video. The only player which can play HD is the Dvico HDD media player.

But the video quality is breathtaking... all those precious memories.. (even though shaky and lotsa movement left and right, zooming in and out ) When playback years later... will be worth all the upgrades....

Guess I have to backup some HD files for future BR burning, at the meantime down sample to mpeg/DVD for viewing.

Yeah paler colour does not mean is bad. About colours, no camcorder or camera can produce exact colours. Even spectro meters (device to measure colours) is not 100% accurate detecting colours. I do prefer using AF, my pana have manual controls, like explore a bit. Yes, be happy .

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Added on June 27, 2009, 1:04 am

Well that's the trend now. Buying a new TV is no brainer this days, it most probably be a HDTV. Most TV offerings from major brands is LCD or Plasma. We are in transition period. That's what manufacturers want to do, sell, sell & sell. Today is HD, tomorrow Super HD, future 3D HD . Otherwise they have nothing to sell and have to close shop. We will be forever upgrading and it is all about $$$.

Dvico HDD player ? Will check it out.

This post has been edited by CPURanger: Jun 27 2009, 01:05 AM

Not really unless you want to upgrade everything at the same time. You can watch the HD videos on any old analogue TV (of course not HD quality lah) before you get your HDTV and your HD videos are waiting there in your external HDD (that day I saw in Low Yat 640GB for RM199 only!) when your HDTV arrives.

You can also watch them in your PS3 if you have one. If not, no need to buy external media player, you can just watch on your PC. My PC is only a low end no-name PC and still can watch HD videos with the right software. Your HD camcorder will also come with some software for watching and editing videos. No need to upgrade PC unless you are serious into editing.

Went to lowyat yesterday, and I saw a mini HD player in Sri Computer for SDHC cards! I dunno if it can play your sanyo movies, but maybe worth a look. less than 200 as well.

At any rate, I would compare this age of pc & HD to the age of 486/pentium & vcd. it used to be quite a challenge to play vcds properly at that time, and the fastest way would be to use xing codec & player for vcds. anybody remember that?

@ronaldkwok, nice cam u hv there , wanted to upgrade when there is optical stabilizer cyberlink powerdirector works well with xacti mp4 format, it's intuitive & user friendly, u may want to hv a try.