この際は「で」を使ってください。
when you are in a place/location, use 「に」
例：私は今教室にいます。

when you are doing something at a place, use 「で」
例：工場で働いています。

this thread proves to be helpful *takes notes*

watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen.

xxboxx.. it should be ' jyou zu ' not jyo te..

thnx for clearing that up senpai

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 03:00 PM

i don't know the romanji for it, just shoot only
btw, i got it from online dictionary, it's either jo_shu, jo_te, jo_zu.
and seem jo_te sounds at most similiar. but it didn't got "jyou zu" like you said?

English>Romanji>English Dictionary
very good for beginner to find some words.

oe_kintaro, if it's possible, could you type out the romanji for all your sentences as well? It would be a BIG help to those who cant read kanji, like me for instance.

hey, i think it would be much fun, and easier to memorize if there's some test for each lesson. so everyone that learning it could test if they remember it or not.

here's some test from lesson 3 that i make up:

1. how to greets good morning politely?


2. what is "ja mata ne"?


3. what do you say when someone say "Dõzo yorosh(i)ku" to you?


4. how do you say " no, i'm sorry"?


5. you thought the girl standing there is your friend, reiko. how do you ask her?


6. continuing from no.5, how does reiko respond to you?


some sifu's here who already good with nihongo could also put some test for us to try out.

haha cool xxboxx,plus ur makin use of those spoiler tags

haha, well i'm quickly get bored if only reading the same thing over and over again. by trying to answer question makes it more interesting. and the spoiler tag is really a cool function for question-answer type.

I will try, but no guarantees
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g., when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ？or げんいん「原因」？(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and jõ and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync

Excellent use of the spoiler tags!! Why didnt I think of that sooner!


Well, I understand that to get far when learning Japanese, you should lose the romanji, but I'm sure many here are just casual readers who are just taking this lightly. Personally, I do wish to learn kanji, but in good time. But I gotta start somewhere right? And I guess if you put romanji together with the kanji that you type, that'll help me learn just as fast, no? Rather than me cross-referencing with a Japanese kanji dictionary every other word cause I dont know how to read chinese characters.

And as for the different romanization systems, well, I cant help it if that happens. But I'll use the system that I lined out in the first post e.g. using the micron (-) symbol above the vowel to signify long vowel sounds. In the case of your example (genin), using the system I outlined in the first post, げにん「下人」would be written as genin while げんいん「原因」 would be written as gen'in.

Thanks for your feedback!

[edit] Added several useful links to the first post. Also added links to practises after end of each lesson (lesson 3 onwards).

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:29 AM

Adapted from xxboxx's post,
LESSON 3 - Practise
1. How do you greet someone first thing in the morning?


2. How do you greet someone in the evening?


3. When do you use the greeting "Konnichiwa"?


4. After talking to a friend, both of you decide to head back home. Your friend says "Ja mata ne!" (See you!). How do you respond by saying "See you tomorrow!" in Japanese?


5. How do you say "No, I'm sorry" in Japanese?


6. You see a girl standing alone. You think she's your friend Reiko, but you have no idea how she looks like. How do you approach to ask her? (English: Excuse me, are you Reiko?)


7. From question 6, assuming you are Reiko, how do you respond? (English: Yes, that's right)


8. You are out with Reiko, and you bump into another friend. How do you introduce Reiko to your friend? (English: This person is Reiko)


9. Translate this sentence into English: Hajimemashite, watashi wa Kanae desu. Dozō yoroshiku!


10. Decide whether the suffix -san should be used in the sentences below.
a. Hajimemashite, An Jenkinsu ____ desu.
b. Kochira wa Yamaguchi Reiko ____ desu.
c. Kochira wa Suzuki _____ desu ka.
d. Sumimasen, Yamaguchi _____ desu ka.


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:33 AM

LESSON 4 - Practise
1. How would you say these phrases in Japanese?
a. What is 'hat' in Japanese?


b. Pardon me for interrupting (when entering a room).


c. I am Malaysian.


d. This is a Japanese language book.


2. Translate this into English: Anata wa Igirisu kara desu ka.


3. You are talking to a Malaysian-born Japanese, Sakura. Another friend Kanae then says to you "Ano, Sakura-san wa Nihon kara desu ka". What did she say? How do you respond?


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:16 AM

it's already challenging to learn the word, but to know the kanji letter as well?
how many letter are there to learn kanji/kana? beside, to know the letter you should also know how to write them. and tutorial how to write is not easy, you should know which line to draw first, and etc.
i think better follow how a child was taught. first parents teach how to speak, then later on only learn how to write when entering kindergarten.


i fail on the no.8 test. need to memorize better

ya u hav to know the strokes order
in this case u need someone to teach u
u can also ask some of your chinese friends
i know my friends helped me quite a lot

stroke order is important if you want to take the kanji test (aka the kanji kentei or nihon kanji nouryoku kentei shiken)

In such a case, don't put too much faith in your chinese friends' ability to write kanji...the stroke order, can be quite different at times and there are subtle differences in stroke length

otherwise, just remembering what a kanji looks like (and sounds) is good enough for the normal nouryoku shiken (but naturally, knowing how to write it is one way )

also, some of my chinese-ed friends tell me that some of younger generation are growing up using only jian ti (simplified PRC style characters) without knowing how to write or read fan ti (complicated/traditional taiwan style characters). I dnno how true this is, but if you had a friend like this it probably won't be of much help either

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 03:49 PM

tell me about. I'm still facing the same problem too. A common weakness of the malaysian style of japanese instruction is an over reliance on students' prior knowledge of written mandarin. This puts people like me (I don't know mandarin) at a significant disadvantage.
it just means we have to work harder.



kana: 50 x 2 IINM.
kanji: up to 2000 if you are aiming for lvl 1 (pre-university level)

correction: passing level 1 of the nouryoku shiken means having a proficiency equivalent to a high school graduate



unlike children, we already know our ABCs and how to write english/bahasa. there is a tendency to use that as a reference in learning japanese. unfortunately it too easily becomes a crutch that is debilitating to one's further progress. that is why teachers of the language eschew the usage of romaji.

* do note that my POV is probably only valid for those who are not casual learners. I do acknowledge that some readers aren't really serious about this anyway, so some of the finer points may not apply.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 04:19 PM

not just you, me too.

so for kana total is 100 letter? that's still not too bad i guess. would learning kana be sufficient?

yup, because we have been accustomed to ABC thats why we tend to rely on it for learning japanese. but i think japanese, like any other language for that matter, are better to learn with hearing and spoken. even if you memorize the romanji, but when you say it if the sound doesn't sound like how it was supposed to, also not good. but romanji are still good for extra learning process. so keep on watching those anime to learn how the words was pronounced

btw, anyone can recommend me anime that's good to watch for learning nihongo? anime which has simple words and slowly spoken would be nice.

i would suggest reading raw manga instead of anime..
this is the website that i used to check on meaning instead of my jap dictionary

http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand/8291/dic10417.htm

Not letter, but syllabary. Each character represents a distinct sound, unlike letters of the alphabet which need to be combined to produce something pronounceable. There are about 50 basic sounds. You need to learn twice: once in hiragana, once in katakana. However, just using hiragana or katakana only is not really encouraged, unless you want the reader to think you are a kindergartener



my neighbour totoro.