Wish I could do something about it, but unfortunately I can't. Keep it up guys, malaysian users really need to win this fight.

I think you may be wrongly reading the traceroute.

The traceroute starts from LA (gi10-0.224.core01.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com).

The landing point in Malaysia is telecommalaysia.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.2). While 320ms++ is by no means wonderful, it isn't horrible either.

Depending on what kind of meeting you have set up, spouting out accusations like above can turn around and bite you in the ass. In your correspondence, keep your calm; some sarcasm can work to your benefit... try not to be pushy or sound angry. If it's a closed meeting, you may want to bring a friend who is able to give you legal advice... and if you aren't 100% clear about the technical aspect, a technical person as well. The majority of your complaint/issue should be able to broken down into points/questions/concerns that you have about the service; write these down... and during the meeting, MAKE SURE YOU GO THROUGH THEM ONE BY ONE. Given the choice, TM (or TIME in my case) will avoid as many of them as possible.

If you are short on points, read the MCMC laws and legislations thoroughly. They may help you to come up with more substance. (This may also bite you in the ass, which is why I recommended the friend who can provide legal advice above).

This post has been edited by biatch0: May 9 2009, 02:39 PM

Yup, exactly. The information really helpful. I believe on that day, i wouldn't want to touch too much on the inner technical portion on how they configure their routers, load balancing and things like that.

We'll mainly concentrate on the result we get or the experience we have with their services which can be considered as a "black box" (Block box testing is a kind of testing carry out by analyzing the outcome without knowing the in-depth logic/configuration of the inner system) result in programming terms. In summary, even we're going to bring TMNET to court, the set of data or claims that we did via the "black box" study is just NOT ENOUGH / NOT QUALIFY as a piece of prove or evident. Moreover, the whole objective is to get TMNET to solve the problems we're facing asap instead of blaming them, or telling the world how bad their services are which is pointless.

Once a upon a time before, i suggested to MCMC to setup an independent consultant team to verify TMNET's network infrastructure and compile an assessment report to MCMC. The suggestion is to reveal what's actually going on. This is the most effective way to verify and identify the root cause of all issues and at later stage provide solution to solve them one by one.

As per for the ping result responded by them, to me, that simply doesn't mean anything as the test has been carried out at the end of different network segments and at different time frame. Long before the whole things got worst, we would be very happy when we get approx 350ms reply and around 5% data loss on ping, sometimes 10% is considered very good to us. One experience that cannot be denied is, when on the line with the call center guys, their ping results and ours at 2 different points (our ends and call center's ends) is having a huge different. they get approx 270ms reply and less than 5% data loss (minimum data / packet loss on ping result is normal) while we're having more than approx 1000ms reply and 40-50% packet loss.

Events like this, we are able to gather the data on our ends, but would they really justify it by collecting the data? I doubt there'll even a note written on the report record during the previous call in. I really doubt so.

All and all, we're going to communicate with them, get a date where all mentioned issues can be resolved and the compensation thingy.

Our initial and main intention to invite relevant party such as the reporters, lowyat forum's admin / moderator, and others related parties is to give constructive contribution during the session and convey the message so that the public is well-informed about the progress or the initiative and efforts TMNET trying to achieve in brushing up their services.

Good job webdesignempire,I'm really hoping that TMnet slow speeds is gone and fixed once and for all....and hope they remove that stupid clause in their agreements that states it is not their fault at slow international download/upload speeds.

Good on you. This is what happens if you persist and get to the right people. Hopefully this will actually happen. Maybe this is one of the reasons why it appears that 4Mbps Streamyx users are now being assigned to the 218.111 IP range which gives better connections.?

Just FYI. I mentioned this in another thread. Back in 1996, Jaring dialup internet users were having technical / connectivity and tariff / call costs issues with (then known as) TMB.

TMB changed their phone tariffs and internet users costs increased. TMB came out with packages which internet users did not think was fair. So Jaring users protested.

Briefly:
- users complained to TMB.
- the press covered the issue.
- the cabinet instructed TMB to meet with internet users on this issue.
- a closed door meeting between TMB officials and 5 representative Jaring users took place.
- the papers were there to report on it.
- suggestions of an open letter to the PM.
- a collection was started to place a full page advertisment in the papers regarding the issue.

The final step of running and advertisement in the papers were cancelled as TMB finally introduced the 1.5sen/min dialup charge for 1511 Jaring users.
The already collected money was given to a charity.

Hopefully something good will come out of such a meeting for Streamyx users this time.

Sorry, my apologies. Now that i have re-read the email a few times, i get what it means.

Dear Ts this is a few issues u can bring up or take note,

1) Fair Usage Policy is an issue, fair usage to who? 4Mbps users get full speed with 218 ip address and all other home based packages claim speeds of less than 20% of subscribed rate. Fair to 4Mbps only? TM will strive to improve the condition of its services(press will release this)

2) Speed is on Best Effort Basis, so TM's best effort is 20% of subscribed rate when Malaysians pay more than most other broadband users in other developed countries. Are the people in TM qualified to run TM? Can TM's current infrastructure actually support all of it's users? Why is it since March the connection worsen and doesn't improve since. Was TM aware? Is TM going to address this issue? When will it be resolved? What steps are taken that will rectify the issue and how long?(press will release this)

In my humble opinion, those two policies have to be reviews, as all of us know TM will push the blame to Fair Usage Policy claiming that the speed we are getting is because of the distribution of speed among users. [Its as if TM only has a 3 lane highway, yet it is inviting more cars (users) and bigger cars or trucks (4Mbps users) to their highway] They can also push the blame to Best Effort Basis saying that is the best that they can do and that TM is only to provide internet access and has no control over international linking.

3) MCMC has to impose new guidelines on their quality and consistency of service as well as the maximum down-time allowed.(USA's broadband uptime is almost 99%) In Malaysia, week after week there will be a service interruption notice on TM's site. That is for consistency. Quality would be for speed as we all know. (In certain cases, even if pings are acceptable and no PL, the download rates still do not pass 5kbps) TM has to be responsible for international speeds, at least to a certain extent. (press will update public on this new guidelines)

4) TM has been doing a "penipuan besar" will TM refund its customers for the almost unusable internet since March? (Yes, BIG LIE. Make them feel bad, its also a good slap on their face but u must have evidence that shows so) (if they rebate, press will release, if they dont, press will not say anything i guess)


This isnt so simple, i think this will be a closed and controlled discussion, alot of initial props must be done so that neither parties will be at a losing end (TM wont let that happen) and a solution can come about for all users. Of course, if u plan to mention the issues above, do it in your own proper fashion Reading it out my way will be really really harmful.

I hope this meeting can carry out successfully.
And I hope they can make a clear definition of their Fair Usage Policy.
Because this policy could be anything they like if they don't stated it clearly.

Whatever , i'm not trying to discouraging ppl i'm just telling u the FACT and try to warn u NOT TO BE FOOL by those TOP cos like i said they mayb just temporarily " layan " u just to bought them sometimes .

Believe me nobody want slow connection and believe me too i had tried every things from mcmc even to press media and they still - > bring it ur best come on hahaha . Not like what u said doing nothing i already taken action way earlier than u .

If u think i like dcing every 30 min , take 2 min to load a website , playing online game ( wow ) with 5 sec delay or even worst etc , then u'r wrong but what can u do ?
Press media r on their side they wont publish anything bad about TM and they'll just tell u haha we know the problem but what can we do : ) .

But whatever i'm just telling u the FACT and my exp so do whatever u like cos i'm a stupid person , make sure u make aggreement with them in black & white not just verbally , but i cant see any point why they wanna do that so make sure u bring a lawyer with u the one powerful enough to deal with TM ( government ) , Good Luck ~ ~~

Thanks alot for the information guys,


The TMB event from mylinear and the information by andrew9292 are truely helpful. And to siukeong, what you mentioned not isn't really my worries. i do worry about that actually. coz if it happens, meaning to say, i'll have to go a longer way to get the things done.

To be frank, i didn't wanna bring such things up and until TMNET has to meet us up to solve the issue. For being working in the IT related service industry for such a long time, from Malaysia to Singapore and back to Malaysia again. I simply just cannot believe an organization especially in such a huge size has to have this kind of embarrassing stuff happening before they really take some bold actions to fix the things up.

Have been using streamyx for 6 years. This is the most bazaar time that i didnt' believe it really did happen.

- Schedule maintenance during peak hours.
- Call center staff that didn't even know what is "domain name" or "URL" which considered as general terms in the industry.
- A call center that will never give you a report number after you have called.
- Call center staff, they told me "you cannot talk to the supervisor because you are not the second level customer".
- Worst things is the repeating issues that keeps on happening here and there.
- Seems like "complaint-proof" organization because they seems "used to" receive complaints that kind and make me have a feeling that they don't take things seriously.

During early years of issues, i crossed checked with Singapore friends, theirs were okay and we have problems. Things happening a few times here, i thought it's normal for such ISP giant, but in fact Singtel or Starhub haven't even happened throughout their operation which is the scheduled maintenance thingy. After i've put the complaint through one of the supervisors, it didnt' happen again now or at least not that i noticed.

mylinear said i'm consistent and got to the right people. In fact, it's the consistency of streamyx issues made me consistent. I got to the right people, from call center to those on the top, a long long way man.

To be frank, i didn't want to talk or deal with TMNET, such matter shorten my life further as such dealing really get on my nerve. But to stick long in this industry, i had no choice, but to give it a try for the last time. TMNET will change or not, i have no idea, at least i tried.

Well, let's keep our finger crossed and see what will happen next.

Firstly, I do hope something useful for Streamyx users will come out of such a meeting. So don't take this the wrong way.

Generally, the top most people are usually not there. They will send representatives to the meeting with instructions on what to say or do already predetermined. The excuse may be the top people are away on business or another meeting came up or whatever. Even if they are there, most of these top people don't really care as they are at the top already, if you know what I mean.

If you think about it, MCMC is supposed to be the monitors. Do they need users to push for a meeting? Their job is to monitor and caution / fine TM for poor performance. You mean MCMC cannot hold a meeting of their own to discuss all complaints with TM without users pushing for it? Its all a matter of whether people want to do the work that they are supposed to be doing. Or whether they want to close an eye to what is going on. MCMC has guidelines and regulations to be followed. It is their job to ensure those are being followed.

After all the hundreds of complaints in these forums and other forums / blogs etc, or in the papers, TM does not know something is wrong? TM does not announce what the problem is? TM thinks everything is ok? The top people in TM don't read the papers? They don't have meetings with their downline who are aware of the problems??
They are either not doing anything about it because they got their own plans which we don't know about, or they don't know what to do to fix the problems.

Again, I hope we benefit from this meeting. But TM will probably use this to their advantage. That is, the reports in the media that they were willing to meet with users etc etc. They will probably say what we already know. That is, they are in the process of upgrading their infrastructure. They are upgrading their backbone to fiber. They are replacing the old DSLAMs with IP-DSLAMS or RDSLAMs. They plan to eventually replace last mile copper lines with fiber to the home (FTTH). The AAG cable will be online in a vouple of months or so which will boost their international bandwidth by some 60Gbps or whatever figure. They are in the process of deploying HSBB which will offer users high speed internet of 10Mbps or so. Other companies can lease the HSBB infrastructure and provide their own value added services and so users will have more choices. Etc etc etc.

TM will say they are studying how to cope with users excessively using bandwidth capacity to download or P2P 24/7. They will say some 20% or so users are using 80% or so of the bandwidth which is why everyone else is also being affected. So they need to have fair usage policies. Maybe they will take the opportunity to say they will be imposing data transfer limits per month so all users can have a proper share of the bandwidth.

They will say they are resolving the different IP range problems. Because it appears that 4Mbps users are already getting better IP ranges now. And why wait till end of May? Is it because they are currently doing maintenance / upgrading of their customer service support system until end of May? So they can say what they have done to improve things. They will say they are training their support staff to be able to help users more, not just read from a standard script.

They have added a clause saying they only guarantee local connections, not international connection speeds. When asked, they will explain that there are many factors affecting international connections such as routers at various points, inter-connectivity with other bandwidth providers or ISPs, congestion on the international links, the destination data center or server being congested or under heavy load etc etc. All out of their control, so they cannot guarantee anything. And yet TM is part of the consortium with a 9-10% stake in the USD500 million AAG cable project.

Anyway, some questions to consider.

1. Why have they disabled tracert responses on their routers? Or at least when using Windows TCP based program. We can still use other software to do tracerts, so what is the point? And yet the support ask to do a tracert and screenshot and email them. With a screen full of * * * ?? Tracert is one of the basic tools to help troubleshoot network problems.

2. They need to have a proper support escalation procedure where customers can request to speak with Level-2 or higher for more serious problems than whether the ADSL light is blinking. That is why most people don't complain to support because it is of no use to speak with Level-1 most of the time. Most users can troubleshoot by themselves what the Level-1 normally asks them to do anyway. We need more tecnical help.

The support center does not have a regular Streamyx connection like we have. They are on some dedicated lines I guess. So when we say we got packet losses or high ping time, they ping ad say no such problem. Of course, its different lines, different networks, different routes etc. This sort of thing is why users get frustrated with the support.

And it is a waste of time waiting for Level-1 to fill in a report then pass it on etc, then hopefully if serious, the Service Recovery Team or the Broadband Management Center will respond after some time.

3. What is their current international bandwidth capacity and what plans to incrase it and when. Can their network and international links deal with the 1.4-1.5 million users? Or have they practised irresponsible overselling with all the promotions and agents pushing for new customers when basic stable connectivity for existing customers is not there.

4. Why do we still have 384K / 512K connections when speeds all over have increased so much? If we wer on 56K say 12 years ago, we should at least be on a minimum of 2Mbps lines now. A real basic package should be at 1Mbps at a much lesser cost than now. 2/4/8Mbps should be a norm by now. There has been no upgrade forour speeds in say the past 5 years or so and also no reduction in prices for the current packages. So we are effectively paying more than what we are getting.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 9:10 pm

This is just an excuse. You can talk to the Level-1 supervisor if you insist and willing to stay on-hold for quite some time. I have spoken to a few of them at different occasions. However, the supervisors don't really know much either. I have documented my encounters with TM support in various posts. Some as ridiculous as being told a satellite crash is causing issues.

You can also talk to a Level-2 if you really persists. But they normally call you back to follow-up, they don't pass you directly to them.



I have posted here a few times asking people to be persistent and keep making reports and also to call the TM HQ. But it seems no one really wanted to follow though, although everyone has so much time to complain here post after post. I think another example was roy_pck who succeeded after persisting.

TM as an ISP has a shocking level of support. They don't even bother to update their website with latest announcement most of the time. A place where users should go to to check on the latest issues. I have made several complaints about this to TM Streamyx Complaints Dept and the PR Dept. Another example is when they had a cable problem on 18 Mar, but kept quiet even though users were complaining to support. I called TM HQ on 23 Mar about this and on 24 Mar, there was an announcement. It took them 1 week! I would really like to see how the CEO of TM would respond to this sort of issues.

Edit: I think I mentioned the wrong dates above. The problem was in Feb, not Mar (I think). Sorry, so many issues, lost track of dates...


This post has been edited by mylinear: May 9 2009, 10:52 PM

Exactly what i trying to tell u guys on my 1st post ( which being said that i'm stupid and discouraging ppl ) but only i'm lazy to type so long cos probably already lost hope in not just TM but Mas . Imagine a company that uses lies to cover up whatever they'r doing now and can u imagine its the biggest ISP of a country .

Just to add 1 point : Why can they use lies and excuses and ignoring the whole nation and nth happens ? MCMC sleeping ? IT minister sleeping ? So u know what i mean cos u'r dealing with government actually not TM so ........ if u dun believe me watch this video , they even can ignore ahli parliment so ..... sigh , listen to their response to Chong's accusation lol funny .........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KssRpL508gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmb1P0TfRhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W15xEoY2ak&feature=related

So whoever planning this i appreciated ur effort but be aware of what u gonna deal with in the future mayb , its not just TM its the " power " behind them and normally it involve $$$ ( corruption ) .

@siukeong7888
the problem is there is no regulation to protect consumer
MCMC just a organization without hands and legs...if they have powers, they don't need organized this forum/discussion with TM, straight forward force them to change...

Note: OMG now google is DOWN??
C:\Documents and Settings\GnusWinnie>ping www.google.com -t
Ping request could not find host www.google.com. Please check the name and try a
gain.

This post has been edited by gnush85: May 9 2009, 09:59 PM

IMHO, the motion to take this to higher level such as TOP guys is very much impressing. But i could rest assured as they would make a lot of excuses and to ease things down, they will announce AAG cables undersea is ready to be used on July 09 (non-official sources). And also through a non official sources too, they will sang the news to you guys that Google will have POP here (Point Of Present), which makes all of us surf even faster (as the non official source told me). I fully support this movement and i kept my finger crossed even more and hope to see a very deep impact and hopefully a wind of change.

I'm so sorry siu keong, this streamyx thing is going crazy and i let it got into me. It's my anger at that moment... I sincerely apologize to u. I need anger management and probably yoga. streamyx should sponsor

We just have to do what we can, money does not come easy, everyone knows that (except the rich brats!) And i believe that paying RM99/88/77 a month(a few months now) for a service that is barely usable can NEVER be accepted. And also many people like TS need the connection daily as it revolves around his business. . . . . .

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:34 PM

when the whole malaysia is experiencing constant break downs/interuptions/shitty connections i think it's pretty clear something is wrong with TM's infra or their lines, hows their customer over-subsription 10:1? 20:1? 30:1? i know its probably gonna be confidential but put that in the questions too.

Malaysia ISP offers Best Effort and Leased Line based services. Best effort is for people like me who need broadband but cannot pay the price for guaranteed service for heavy download usage.

One of the reason why broadband in Malaysia is so expensive is due to the fact that all ISP will need to terminate their international traffic at one single point in Malaysia which is in Mersing (if not mistaken) before going to the international link, and that single point (the switch) belongs to TM. The cost to terminate the traffic there is extremely high. Some ISPs choose to get their own leased line and fiber to Singapore or Thailand to terminate the traffic in that country, which surprisingly could be cheaper than to terminate it in Malaysia, funny heh?

The best way is to have an independant body to take over the international traffic termination point and have all ISP to pay to rent the infra there. That would be fairer to everyone.

siukeong7888, just to say, we all have different opinions and perspective on things. That is ok. I hope you and andrew9292 agree to disagree on this issue. At this time, we can all just try to co-operae to solve a common problem. Name calling and in-fighting will not help. So let's all take it easy.

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Added on May 9, 2009, 11:12 pm

No, you only need faster Streamyx... and all will be calm...


This post has been edited by mylinear: May 9 2009, 11:12 PM

@webdesignempire

I really appreciate the fact that you're taking the time to address the issue of horrible 1mbps broadband and above which people here have been ranting about for ages. I was recently cut off from broadband internet access for about a week and had to keep calling TMnet's call centre every single day before they decided to send a team of technicians to my house.

Anyway, it looks like you've covered a whole lot of issues but here are some I can add to the list ..

1) After my DSL link was cut off for a week and then restored, I was also reassigned and have since then been locked into the 218.111.x.x IP range. I'm a 4mbps user and have since been experiencing noticeably faster speeds on international connections (30-40KB/s per HTTP thread) using this range as opposed to the usual 5-10KB/s. About a week ago, the speed and latency were dependant on which IP range I was on but they seem to have given 4mbps users some sort of priority. I don't think this is fair as all paying customers should get the same speeds with international sites regardless of which package they are on, limited only by their package downstream speed and the achievable downstream rate. There must also be consistency of service quality between each dynamic IP range one is assigned to.

2) It is a known fact that TM practices traffic shaping for various types of P2P traffic. It's been this way for 3 years+ and I'd rather let that be a known fact when you apply for their service rather than finding that out by yourself via forums such as this one. I'm not a genius but one would assume that shaping large amounts of P2P traffic in a large network would slow things down a lot or form a bottleneck of sorts. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the majority of heavy P2P downloaders are more than willing to purchase various P2P-throttle bypassing services to get past these bandwidth caps which in turn renders these blocks useless. A ton of P2P services have cropped up in the LYN forum solely because TMnet has chosen to blacklist P2P traffic in an attempt to conserve bandwidth.

How do they intend to cap these downloaders which are now piggybacking P2P traffic from centralised servers on the SFTP/HTTP/FTP protocols? Are they going to shape those protocols too? Wouldn't a more viable solution be to set transfer limits..?

Please ask them how they intend to solve these problems, thanks

All we are asking for is consistency and reliability. In reality, we definitely cannot guarantee things 100% but what we can do is to give your best to make it reliable. Sadly, in this case TMNet fail. Literally.

the main point is, we want a fair IP dynamic/static, does matter is 218,219,60,124,115 all route must be same & latency too

previous i did share about different IP having different route/latency at the time i had access to most of IP range, just without 218, 219 & half 60.xx

maintenance/routing/fault submarine cable must be update at the site less than 2hour