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Important Background Information:



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THE REAL GAME OF LOVE
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First, a few definitions:
Social Dominance: in control of one's life and has a certain level of connectedness with those in his social circle. In the modern world, social dominance is difficult to achieve without money, but possible on a tight budget none the less.
Pretty: sexually attractive / proportionate (whatever your definition of sexual attractiveness may be)
Ugly: not sexually attractive / disproportionate (note: it's not about being slim or chubby...)


Consider the following statements:
Guys like girls who are pretty.
Girls like guys who are socially dominant.

Guys would not usually think of actively courting / spending resources on girls whom they are not at least a little bit sexually attracted (or physically aroused by) to.
Girls would not usually think of actively trying to get the attention of guys whom they perceive as being weak.

Guys try to court the pretty girls.
Pretty girls have a wide choice of guys.
Pretty girls will not usually settle for guys who are non-socially dominant.

Girls try to attract the socially dominant guys.
Socially dominant guys have a wide choice of girls.
Socially dominant guys will not usually settle for girls who are ugly.

Your "average" girl may just so happen to appeal to a really socially dominant guy.
Your "average" guy may just so happen to appeal to a really pretty girl.

Face it,
Being pretty improves a girl's chances of finding the right guy who is reasonably socially dominant, reasonably well built, and compatible.
Being socially dominant improves a guy's chances of finding the right girl who is reasonably charming/feminine, reasonably sexually attractive, and compatible.

That Said,
Not all girls are pretty.
What about the girl who realizes that she's in her 30s and has never dated? She was never sexually attractive enough to have a guy who was up to her expectations ask her out. All this while she was distracted by the pursuit of knowledge and wealth/career. Her biological clock is ticking. She knows she's way past her prime... Her ovaries are not going to wait for her. They are shriveling by the day...
Not all guys are socially dominant.
What about the guy who never attracted the attention of a girl whom he finds reasonably attractive? He's too shy to ask girls out because of bad experiences (with the pretty girls who had more eligable suitors). He's been working for 10 years and now has his own little humble place. He's feeling lonely and knows that his youth is nearing it's end. He's never even gotten laid before (ok, that's a bit cruel to say)

Reality Bites
The average guy learns to lower his expectations/standard to a point where he is comfortable. He finds a girl who he thinks is right for him. He calls it love after awhile.

The average girl learns that the most eligable bachelors are out of her reach and looks elsewhere. She finds a guy who he thinks is right for her. She calls it love after awhile.

Caveat
1) Cultural compatibility plays a key role in finding a life partner. Social dominance and beauty will not guarantee the person you find attractive is right for you.
2) Different people have different standards for beauty/attractiveness/social dominance. Mika recently wrote a song about how chubby girls are attractive in their own way. DONT JUDGE PEOPLE too much.
3) Attractiveness may literally be "chemical". Scientists now believe that people with differing sets of genes for bacterial/viral immunity are more likely to like each other's natural scent (eg. the smell of your t shirt after you've worn it all night to sleep).

What im trying to say is that there are other factors that come in to play asides from the major ones in red and blue.

Personally...
...the person whom i very much would have liked to spend my life with was NOT the prettiest person i've ever dated. We were compatible, and in her I saw "home". I cant explain it, but I DID FIND HER REASONABLY ATTRACTIVE. Unfortunately, we were to go our separate ways


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BIG Questions This Thread Answers
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Why It Is So Hard To Find A Date On A Friday Night?
1) Your standards are too high.
2) You are not attractive enough yourself to attract a partner of your standard.

How Come Western Society With All It's "Pergaulan Bebas" (With Girls Wearing Hotpants and Spaghetti Straps) Has Not Disintegrated?
...because everyone has expectations. The girl with a hot body knows she is attractive and expects to get the guy who is up to her standards. The same goes for the socially dominant guys. Everyone tries to find the most attractive partner they can. Most girls are not that pretty. Most guys are not socially dominant. Hence, social breakdown will not occur even with free mingling. Revealing clothing can be seductive when worn by the right people, but let's face it... Sometimes i'd wish some girls were forbidden from wearing revealing tops. Not because it's arousing, but rather because its just disgusting to look at. Yup, the clothes that hide beauty can also serve to hide ugliness. So what about the beautiful girls? Eye candy to oogle at. But they are picky and free to choose who they are dating. The numerous guys who are turned on by them wont even stand a chance. If malaysian women were to dress more revealingly, I dont think society would disintegrate. Rather, people would be more aware of where they stand in the game of love and attractiveness.

Antithesis of the Moralistic Paradigm: Malaysians are generally taught in our education system (PI or Moral) about the need for moral safeguards and interventions (eg J.A.I.S. raids) with regards to dating and sex. According to the moralists, society would disintegrate without such measures. "Pergaulan bebas", or free inter-gender mingling, is discouraged. Camps are segregated. The college that I went to even had a gender segregated cafeteria! We are taught to hate or frown upon the natural approach to dating and relationships. We are taught that women should not reveal themselves as it is harmful to society.




If you are a guy and have found this post useful, do read the following:
What Girls Really Want In A Man.
A bump in that thread will be much appreciated, for the good of MAN-kind.

This, my friend, deserve a sticky after your previous thread.

You made my day.

Good post mate

I like this thread compared to the previous one. At least it's straightforward heh.
Well I'm not dissing your threads, at all. Just that I prefer this one to your old thread.

Nevertheless I do find both useful. Good job for posting.

another great post by a great poster, pretty much sums out how the world works...
but i still have a hunch that there will still be guys who would come into the forums blaming how money magically drops the pants of females

How about define average too? Or from your example, it is just simply between unattractive and attractive?

hmm hmm hmm great post targeting the average joe audience out there.

me not going to be the average guy. I am trying to become the social dominant guy, pick the materialistic woman just to let them fall down hard.

revenge is fun.

i agreee with u this shud a very meaningful post i read so far///

Great post , Now the only thing that can top it off , is that you also post a video of you actually picking up a girl giving an explanation of how you handled the dynamics , that would be better than this !

stick this one mods...
ezralimm - u finally impressed us... prolly?

Yup, great post. Deserves to be pinned. The world, truth sucks and yeah, reality bites you in the ass !!

Great!!!

damn long wor...read till wanna fall asleep d...

but quite informative...

What's with the kitten in my organization cloak? Haha....i sensed that buayakatsuki is going to threaten my akatsuki organization. I better hide myself for awhile.

THe hawk organisation is now working with akatsuki, so its fine on my end

Omfg
Thread of the season
Thx alot m8

Awesome write on the complexity of social dynamics. Kudos to you.

after reading this.. i dont kno where i am...

Very nice info...

Will start a poll to request pin when article is complete.








Thanks for the compliments!



I did this on my spare time. Im not an arts student, although if I didnt get the course of my choice I may have likely chosen something to do with sociology/anthropology.



Those kinds of guys would always exist wouldnt they. DIfficult to reason with them. Just like the girls who think guys just look at TnA (tits and ass) when judging women.



Hahaha, maybe in the far future, not anytime soon. Aiming to complete the article over the next few weeks.



Coming up:

The BIG questions of life that this article has answered. (it's not what you think it is trust me.)
What prompted me to think about all of this.
General cleanup, append caveat #4, and update layout. Prob remove the spoiler in the beginning as well.

we want more insights

How sad so there is no true/real love after all, its all conditioned love
I have been cheated by dramas and fairy tale stories


good post neverheless
but a lil bit generalized

What happened in dramas is total fairy tales that misleads most of the people from the hard truth. Hollywood, Korean even Malaysian movie makers should be blamed for this..

Yes yes yes you're right

So ezralim has burst a bubble, there is no true love any more

True love still exists, I believe. But only few lucky people will have the luxury for it (e.g love at first sight etc..etc..). Many will just have to "settled" with what he/she can get. Some might not getting any at all, no matter how low their expectation is. This might sounds too harsh but hey, I know them first hand..

that's a pretty harsh conclusion to make.


It takes two people to tango before there is love.

Yet people only tango with other people who are up to their expectations.

Everyone likes to thiink they can have high expectations.



Love blossoms when you spend enough time with someone you are attracted to (and is attracted to you).

The key is time. Quality time. Not time with a group of friends. Time alone together. Over a nice meal. Long walks on the beach (cliche leh...).


Unattractive people (this applies to both guys and girls) have difficulty finding someone decently attractive (by their standards) who is also attractted to them...

Love still blossoms though. They eventually learn to lower their standards and end up spending time with a less-than-ideal, but still acceptable person of the opposite sex. Spend enough time and they get used to each other, and love blooms.

Love isnt really blind. But they know that they have to be blind towards the really attractive people of the opposite sex (as they dont stand much of a chance) and appreciate the person who is willing to go out with them.

Words of wisdom.

But imo if u lower your standard, it isnt still what u wanted?

I fail at lovey dovey stuff anyway
*hungs head in shame*

why am i the only one think this thread shouldn't be pinned, lulz

why ? because beautiful girl deosn't necessary end up with dominant guy, so does dominant guy vice versa lulz even in general too, cheers

Note the word "usually" in the article. (now bolded and italisized)

Also see Caveat #2.

If you want to make movie or dramas 'successful', you gotta have 'something' that could have touched the heart of the 'audience'. I don't think so it misled, it misled only to your perception. There are really romance movies out there that helps people to achieve their 'best' in their love life and it depends on how you look at the situation. If you're going in with the expectation and crossing fingers hoping that the 'actress' in your love-life is going to be like the one in the drama, know that its no difference than fapping.

Here's the thing, if you were to ask me, i do not care about the ending of romantic movies but i like the ongoing process of the romance happened. The flirting lines, the gestures, the romance 'body-language', the 'stare', the smile and especially the actor's confidence. These are thing that really what people should look for, the essence of romance. Not deriving a conclusion, that we should or could also have a love life like both actor and actress in the movie. Of course it will misled if things didn't turn out to be like the dramas or the movies.

I think one of the best resources in getting love lines and understanding the other love partner is through love movies and dramas. Am not a big fan of taiwan drama (forgive me, but i really hate their acting skills) but im a huge fan of english romance movies for example like i just watched last night, In Holiday by Jude Law, Cameron Diaz, Jack 'Tenacious' Black and Kate Winslet. If you watch them properly you will tend to see how flirting and dating could be so effective in building up romance.

AS the conclusion, don't hope to watch any of these romantic movies and dramas with the expectation i too want to have that kind of 'love' and ending. Don't just focus the bigger picture. Look at the details and process, then perhaps there is a higher chance that probably, you will end up in the same shoes as the actor and actress. Come to think of it, why there are couples out there too, confess that romantic movie have bring them together and strengthen their relationship even stronger? Because i believe they are looking for the essence provided in the movies.

HAHA, SO TRUE

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Added on June 28, 2008, 12:57 pm
drama and fairytales are so true!
the man is always so good in his life( eg: the prince Handsome, nice, dominant, charming)
And the girl is always so prefect (eg: pretty, kind, good hearted)

i dont see anything fake in it.
they look perfect together.
when they look perfect together, they wil feel perfect together ,and they wil be perfect together.

so you mean, average guys shouldn't go for beautiful girl ?, instead they should target the people within thier range ?

No, what im saying is that beauty/attractiveness lies in the eyes of the beholder.

but that said,

generally, socially dominant guys and proportionate girls are considered attractive/beautiful/desirable.


Then there is also the possibility that:

You may see the next guy whom you consider average going out with a girl you consider beautiful. Yet, you dont see the qualities in that "average" guy that the beautiful girl sees. Yes, girls judge guys on levels that go far beyond what i intend this thread to lead. A deeper discussion on this is at my other more long winded thread: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/623201



Also,

There is no such thing as being definitely unattractive or attractive. It's not black and white. People are a shade of grey.

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Added on June 28, 2008, 1:56 pmultimately, only you know where your standard lies.

If you think you can go after the really attractive girls, then go for it. WHo knows, maybe you stand a chance? Never know till you try right.

I believe that a majority of guys will have to lower their standard until they are comfortable. Just like a majority of girls will realize that they are not going to get the rich/handsome/socially_dominant prince charming of their dreams and will have to settle for less.

with that said, if every guys go for average girls and not beautiful girl, even the beautiful girl will lower thier standard too rite ?

theoretically yes.

Though i've never come across a pretty girl without any decently attractive guy going after her.

or a handsome, charming, and dominant guy without any pretty girls trying to attract him.

My point exactly..

but dont you think those sound-perfect people... like good looking, caring, charming, nice... they are only for DISPLAY? somehow i think that those perfect-like people are better to stay away from them before you get hurt...

it's either they are so high in demand that you have too many competitors out there... or this person he himself knows that he is so good that he will probably be ego and not treat you good...

Dude you should get an award for this. hahahahahaha


The reason why you think that way could be because you don't think highly of yourself. In other words, you are insecure, because you think you can't match your own qualifications against the qualifications of the "perfect person".

hmmm... i doubt there are a lot of people here think highly of themselves... if so there wont be so many people complaining about CANT GET LOVER...

That even show how true when spanker say you're insecure. The above shows how you actually doesn't think highly of yourself indirectly. I don't know how do you derived most of us here do not think highly of ourselves but i do know you're just making a faulty assumption. I think the one that think highly of themselves is the one that answers confidently in this forum and definitely spotted easily the one that do not think highly of themselves.

Don't get me wrong here. I do hope you should understand that there are people out there are gifted with looks and characteristics that many are looking forward to 'purchase' but what you didn't realize each of us are actually gifted in a way, if we opened our eyes wider. Besides, there are things that what we don't have on ourselves, we have to work our arse off to get it for example, style and prosperity. Being charming, handsome and nice is a plus for any woman because is part of attraction towards the woman, but i don't think so its right to generalize them as for display because same goes for woman that we guys are after. Are there for displays? No, rather than to generalize them like that, we humans actually look MORE from what others can give, simply say, that blaming them for their 'gifts' doesn't necessarily solves issues in relationship. You don't just derive a handsome and caring guy as a hard-to-maintain type of guy because it shows your inability to handle these type of 'people'. Show your confidence instead of fear because fear will only lead you towards the pit of sadness. Besides there are many more factors (direct and indirect approach) that contributes to why people fail in relationship and also can't get their lovers on demand. Have you ever seen a handsome and a desperado guy and a beautiful and mind-control freak? I do, and definitely they aren't 'attractive' to me.



I dunno where you get it, but people have their problems to solve and some sought advices here and some are lucky to get a decent advice. Stating how a person can't get lover, well...all i can say its very demeaning for you to tell these type of people that they can't achieve what others want to have. Well, i do hope you try to be a little bit less judgmental as others too want a good love life, so do you. The only difference is that not all of us here can make 'right' choices every single time, as always we human still have flaws in choosing options in our entire life.

i think you are one of those "below average"

be confident of urself in watever u do ...
dont beg over things that isnt urs........

ok... it's me then... i am insecured... =(

Don't worry little honey, i think one day you will be secure, aight.

i think you posting "I am insecured... [/B]=([" and you expect ppl to reply you:" No la, you are pretty, everybody is pretty, and beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, nobody can see your beauty like ur love ones, everybody is the same, we are all pretty the same way."

BUT HECK, if u say u are insecure, then u are insecure.
WTH cares, from ur posts, i think u seriously the "Below average"

har... you guys were the one who told me that i am insecured... and now i am admitting that i am insecured... also wrong ar? wtf man?

then what should i say?

no lar, i am not insecured blablablabla...?

He is of course the white ranger aren't you white drops? Haha......

just feeel like insulting ppl for the heck of it

that is where you is pathetic.

hmm from personal experience all this sounds like just talk ya know , When I hang out at KLCC or BUKIT BINTANG , There are other things besides confidence that you need to pull those women !