i'm a mage and often killed by rogues

how do i beat them back??
i mean, any strategies or tactics to share??

im a frost mage with 37/0/24 talent build, 1k bonus spell damage but i do NOT mean "how to kill noob rogues"
what i mean is, how to kill a professional well equippted rogue that suddenly pops out of stealth and slay you??

currently i depend much on ice armor, blink (when cheapshootted) and frost nova when they get near... but still its hard with their sprint and CloS
when they get near, i can only nova, run while ice-lance, fire blast and Presence of Mind to frost bolt as i wont have any time to actually cast a spell

any tips n tricks??

Who you teamed up with? all depends on your teamwork xD.
At first glance, rogue has big advantage that a mage can never run away.

yeah im talking about one on one

and some people say "use rank 1 fireball, with its DoT, de rogue cant invi!!!"
but hell, i wont  have time to cast fireball and rank one (<1s casting) is only 4 seconds  

EDIT-
is there also an addon that will instantly target an opponent that has recently hit u??
cuz in some occasions where casters hide(or from an angle u cant see such as high places) and throw a spell at you
instead of looking at combatlog and use /tar, any addon to help?

lol... thx, nice guide...
urm... i dont have super low latency and i dont have any haste proc...

hmmm, a shatter combo is icelance , isn't it??
and since i've never ever used the pet before, i'd like to ask, cold snap does refresh pet's cd??

and would i lose lots crit without using spell power from arcane if i do 17/0/44?

so... how do i actually kill de rogue?? its more like spamming ice lances and other instant casts

What quazacolt said, you need to play deepfrost. Note that elemental also does freeze for shatter combos, if u take engineering u can use frost grenade for shatter combos too, swift potion or goblin rocket boots to keep the distance from the rogue. Theres going to be a lot of running and instant cast. Nova-cone-icelance-fireblast.

whats a 37-0-24 used for?

guess ive been watching to much of vurtnes lol. Although the chances of getting frostbite might come in handy. Anyway you cant blink nor iceblock if the rogue uses kick right?

What quazacolt said, you need to play deepfrost. Note that elemental also does freeze for shatter combos, if u take engineering u can use frost grenade for shatter combos too, swift potion or goblin rocket boots to keep the distance from the rogue. Theres going to be a lot of running and instant cast. Nova-cone-icelance-fireblast.

whats a 37-0-24 used for?

a simple and basic shatter combo is frost nova, frostbolt > icelance while target is frozen to gain +50% crit chance
some complex ones includes but is not limited to: fnova > fbolt + lance >fbolt cast and when its almost finish, pet nova then fbolt + icelance + fireblast

coldsnap doesnt refresh CD, but it does refresh the water elemental summon spell, in which you can summon, use up its mana, elemental death or summon duration, cold snap, and summon another one.

and no, you dont lose lots of crits, in fact, you GAIN MORE crit.

and no, unless the rogue is lagging HORRIBLY without clos/shadowstep and or half/almost dead, spamming icelances and instants will never EVER kill a competant rogue.

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Added on June 10, 2008, 4:43 pm

cone is barely used by mages for dps, its only served as a backup fnova as it snares better than fbolt. that said, cone overwrites fbolt snare and the snare duration is shorter, so its also a double edged sword.

the only exception would be aoes and/or your target is almost dead and cone would be ideal to add in some added dmg to finish said target off.

=edit=
typo edit and addins

37/0/24 is either lol spec, or pve i suppose. not much value in pvp.

Sometimes there are just some classes you cant win. thats the rock, scissors, paper thing for you.

oh... im a max JC and miner
i was using 37/0/24 becuase i thought Spell Power was nice crit and i thought, why not Mind Mastery since im so far into the arcane tree..........

Rogue vs. mage is dominantly based on who attacks who first. Rogues are defeated much like warriors. Do not blink out of the initial attack, you won't gain much ground considering the Rogue will likely sprint, and then you'll be unable to blink out of the endless stun. Instead of blinking initially, Frost Nova. Then run just out of melee range and polymorph the rogue. That move will effectively reset the battle, except now our Rogue friend is unstealthed and thus, weakened. From this point on, it is literally almost the same as fighting a Warrior (esp. for a Frost Mage). Get to maximum range ASAP and begin to kite the Rogue. You should make quick work of him once you're at max range.


[[Alternately, if the Rogue manages to Vanish out of your frost nova before you can polymorph him, stay as close to the spot where he was and use arcane explosion as quickly as possible. Since Rogues don't move as quickly in stealth, he likely won't have gone far. Also, after he vanishes, he'll likely be moving TOWARDS you anyway attempting to CS/Ambush you, so it's beneficial to use arcane explosion immediately after he uses Vanish. If you're quick, he'll rarely get another jump on you via vanish. In some situations, if a rogue has vanished from within melee range of you, you can use cone of cold or dragon's breath to unstealth him. Since the area's of effect are smaller, and these skills have cooldowns, they're usually not preferred to arcane explosion.]]

This fight is largely about having the advantage, and the way to do that is to keep the rogue out of stealth or to not allow him to benefit from it. Rank 1 arcane explosion and Rank 1 blizzard are your friends here.


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Keep your mana shield up at all times, but even that might not save you. Every sixth hit you take will crit for 2000+ hp. Get the rogue out of stealth and keep him/her from restealthing. The dot on fireball and pyroblast are handy for this role. You will absolutely have to polymorph them, but beware, your opponent can counter all your tricks (once every 5 minutes, twice if they have preparation up). A rogue can sprint in stealth and when chilled, they can vanish out of frost nova, and he will almost certainly kick you when you're trying to polymorph at point blank range. Once in sheep form and without vanish, they are usually yours to play with. Save your blink for their cheap shot/kidney shot. Try spamming lvl 1 Arcane explosion if they are stealthed, and your blink is still recharging.

Most mages consider rogues an even matchup, usually the one to initiate battle wins.

Since the new patch, rogues can start popping Cloak of Shadows (CoS) on you once a minute. This basically amounts to a 5 second stun as there isn't really much you can do except blink away (and if you do you'll probably end up getting stunned). A mage's best bet is to save ice block for these moments, as CoS makes rouges extremely difficult against mages.

When a rogue opens on you with a garrote silence, immediately move away and frost nova. This will usually prompt the rogue to pop his Cloak of Shadows. You have five seconds to run immediately away from the rogue (flipped camera on keybind helps here) until the cloak wears off, don't stand still as five seconds is shorter than you think. Usually it's much easier to burst the rogue down at this point with instants and slow than to risk getting kicked or deadly thrown trying to polymorph the rogue. Use presence of mind to sheep or don't try it. As mentioned above, high AP rogues will have equivalently low hp. Don't attempt to cast anything on the rogue like fireball as he has various tricks to stop your cast or otherwise avoid damage like vanish, cloak of shadows, kick, deadly throw, gouge, and blind. Generally you want to tank some of his hits while saving a blink when you know the big damage is coming.

-- From a different point of view, never keep your mana shield up, unless your health decreased disproportional to your mana. Using mana shield will quickly leave you with half health and no mana when fighting a Rogue. My advice is to take that first hit or two.

Frost mages can kite rogues relatively easily. Note that sprint is on a 5 minute cooldown, and preparation is on a 10 minute cooldown. While, for a frost mage, your ice block is on a 5 minute cooldown, and cold snap is on a 10 minute cooldown (HINT HINT). Then again, cooldowns are not always necessary.


An easy way to combat a rogue is in fact down to talents, as said above PoM is very very useful, and can make the idea of "first hit wins" not be correct. Allow me to explain: If its at the start of a fight and you find yourself in trouble, then use it to poly the rogue. But if lets say your struggling near the end of the fight, and he has aprox a few hundred/1-2k health points left, then using PoM - Pyroblast, or PoM - fireball/frostbolt is actually better, as if you know your damage for them and feel you can finish them by using it, go ahead. I've done this quite a few times and have changed from losing; to winning a duel very very quickly.

[Arcane] medium. [Fire] medium. [Frost] easy-medium.

he comes dark, and there is some sort of a hissing noise when he activates it

Don't blink out of Cheap Shot, but Kidney Shot if possible.

Try not to have your Water Elemental too close to you.

this guide is either SEVERELY outdated, or full of fail.

rogues with high ap will have low hp? i lol at that. armory me for more details
then wheres trinket? wheres lolstep? wheres cheat death?

someone needs to update that wowwiki entry already

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Added on June 11, 2008, 3:30 pm

an easier explanation:

scyap, have you seen or met a shadow priest? have you seen them morphing from holy (or normal) form into shadow form?

that. a rogue becomes a shadow priest for 5 seconds. (same graphic, same sound.)

why not??
yeah i was hit by one today and i iceblocked and he waited next to me and i nova and soon... i was using /mourn on him

Rogue rape locks.

Now i'd like to ask, how should  a warlock counter a rogue ??

i know dot keeps rogue from unstealth but i cant just dot yet because he comes from my back via stealth, and stunlock and by the time all he stuns and spells he used are done, im dead

i heard succubus seduce and you soulfire but the succubus cant be on your tail all the time , at least if u were a mage, u could blink off to avoid a stunlock then summon pet...  but how on a warlock??

even if u deathcoil, and while casting another fear, would he trinket+vanish+sap and re-start a fight??
edit-
Quazacolt, thx for the quartz addon suggestion, real nice

i beg to differ :> locks on my server proves other wise

moar stam? LOL!

SL/SL, either felhunter to attempt denial of rogue opener (not likely, unless you got goggles/perception and even then sub rogues have 10yd sap, and can counter your stealth detect via various means/cooldowns) or VW for 10% additional melee mitigation

resil cap along with 12-14k unbuffed hp is almost a must against top tiered rogues. engineering boots/belt will help too, considering its a 1v1 duel. glickz innovated armor setup is also proven to be effective.

do not summon succubus, its a joke against good rogues and will only get you killed, soul linked or not. save your deathcoil when you really need it, preferably after rogue trinket/CLOS, that way you can get full benefit outta DC. rogue needs to cloak sooner or later especially if you start fight out with amp COA, else his hp will dip too low. try to save YOUR trinket for a crucial 6pt KS,

whats SL/SL??? SoulLink/SoulLink ??

whats 6pt KS ??

and what would you do if he is on CloS? at least on mages u can blink or ice block

http://www.gomtv.net/wow/vod/205

Refer to the 1v1 matches btw mage and rogue