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jones007
version 4 mate. continue here
darklight79
I'm supposed to do GVT for quads and calves today but screw it. I'm too lazy. I'll just skip and do a regular squat workout tomorrow. Btw, i might make the switch from freeweight squats to Smith machine squats sooner than expected Jones. All the posts I've been reading from the IFBB pros at bb.com seem to suggest that leg presses and Smith machine squats are much better for quad development.

And bloody hell, I had a near bad experience my last squat workout. One of my 2 spotters were unattentive and the plates nearly fell and if it broke the mirrors, i would've had to pay a bomb.
jones007
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:03 PM)
I'm supposed to do GVT for quads and calves today but screw it. I'm too lazy. I'll just skip and do a regular squat workout tomorrow. Btw, i might make the switch from freeweight squats to Smith machine squats sooner than expected Jones. All the posts I've been reading from the IFBB pros at bb.com seem to suggest that leg presses and freeweight squats are much better for quad development.

And bloody hell, I had a near bad experience my last squat workout. One of my 2 spotters were unattentive and the plates nearly fell and if it broke the mirrors, i would've had to pay a bomb.
*


the bolded. u mean smith squats right?

i think smith squats should do good tho. can be done with maximum time contraction during the whole ROM. but i did grow good on free weights squats. haha so i guess i'm gonna stick to it for the moment until i hit a good number in squats. lol
rayza
QUOTE(4Rings)
Scott Emulsion ain't an omega 3 fish oil Darklight was talking about. SE doesn't contain N3.


Oh well I already have a bottle of SE. I will finish it first.

Can you recommend fish oils that can do what Darklight said?
jones007
QUOTE(rayza @ Jun 8 2008, 09:08 PM)
QUOTE(4Rings)
Scott Emulsion ain't an omega 3 fish oil Darklight was talking about. SE doesn't contain N3.


Oh well I already have a bottle of SE. I will finish it first.

Can you recommend fish oils that can do what Darklight said?
*


fish oils from seven seas should do fine.. check out the nutrition fact of their products.
darklight79
QUOTE(jones007 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:07 PM)
the bolded. u mean smith squats right?

i think smith squats should do good tho. can be done with maximum time contraction during the whole ROM. but i did grow good on free weights squats. haha so i guess i'm gonna stick to it for the moment until i hit a good number in squats. lol
*



Oops, my bad. Typo. Yeah.... Smith squats, not freeweight. I mean, like i told you on msn, look at Wong Hong, Bob Chick, Dorian Yates (your idol). None of them placed much importance on those.

I mean there's nothing wrong with freeweight squats but i think in the later stages it can be counterproductive for me. I don't want my hips to get bigger and i love doing heavy weights no matter what and i don't think i would want to attempt narrow stance (bodybuilder's stance) freeweights with above 340 pounds for reps.

I'm kinda interested in what 4Rings might say about this. He did old school style training.

jones007
oh yeah. squatting too much gives u a big ass. especially PL squats. big asses. no good. thats why i'm squatting oly style now. narrower stance. good on the quads. but u gotta have a good level of flexibility to do so. and good thing is i have that flexibility. lol.

yeah 4rings. old school bber.
darklight79
QUOTE(jones007 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:18 PM)
oh yeah. squatting too much gives u a big ass. especially PL squats. big asses. no good. thats why i'm squatting oly style now. narrower stance. good on the quads. but u gotta have a good level of flexibility to do so. and good thing is i have that flexibility. lol.

yeah 4rings. old school bber.
*



Narrow stance also serves to develop the outer sweep of the quads but i'm wondering for myself, how much more can i squat narrow stance without falling over? sad.gif
The fear of me getting injured is pretty real. Plus i already had disc injury in my lower back from a deadlifting incident. It was so bad that when i started coughing, i would actually collapse on the ground due to the pain. Question is, do i want anymore damn injuries to set me back? I'm lucky to have recovered completely but the next time i won't be so lucky. Imagine me tipping over with all 340lbs on my shoulders. Plus the rack I'm using isn't like the one at Cali Fitness. It's those old school style racks.
jones007
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:22 PM)
Narrow stance also serves to develop the outer sweep of the quads but i'm wondering for myself, how much more can i squat narrow stance without falling over? sad.gif
The fear of me getting injured is pretty real. Plus i already had disc injury in my lower back from a deadlifting incident. It was so bad that when i started coughing, i would actually collapse on the ground due to the pain. Question is, do i want anymore damn injuries to set me back? I'm lucky to have recovered completely but the next time i won't be so lucky. Imagine me tipping over with all 340lbs on my shoulders. Plus the rack I'm using isn't like the one at Cali Fitness. It's those old school style racks.
*


oh yeah.. i guess safety is more important. prevention is better than cure. i'm going to start wearing a damn belt too. i still have fear sometimes. maybe once i hit 3 plates squat raw i'll start iwth a belt from then. haha
4Rings
I did a lot of regular squat, lunges and vertical leg press.
I added in sissy squat once in a blue moon.

I remember I did 10 sets of squat once. My quads cramped when I get down from the bus. I stood still for a couple of minutes. Luckily there was no one at the bus stop at 10pm.
jones007
so u were to say u have been sticking to free weights squats all these while for quads development? never had any injury before?
4Rings
Yeah, free weight squat. That was my favorite exercise back then.
Back injury. I have been avoiding squat nowadays.
jones007
were u wearing a belt? lots of lower back problem i heard from squats and deadlifts.. shits
4Rings
I can't squat without a belt, kind of habit. I did very heavy deadlift too.
My injury came from deadlift and squat.
soitsuagain
Doing heavy cardio after weight lifting will get your six pack faster than not doing at all.
T+1
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:13 PM)
Oops, my bad. Typo. Yeah.... Smith squats, not freeweight. I mean, like i told you on msn, look at Wong Hong, Bob Chick, Dorian Yates (your idol). None of them placed much importance on those.

I mean there's nothing wrong with freeweight squats but i think in the later stages it can be counterproductive for me. I don't want my hips to get bigger and i love doing heavy weights no matter what and i don't think i would want to attempt narrow stance (bodybuilder's stance) freeweights with above 340 pounds for reps.

I'm kinda interested in what 4Rings might say about this. He did old school style training.
*


i read dorian yates interview a few days ago. it's true that different exercises work for different ppl
QUOTE
T: Do you ever use Smith machines and do you have any strong opinions about that piece of equipment?

Dorian: Yeah, I used them for pressing movements, like incline press and shoulder press. I used it for squats, as well. I was brought up in the era of Tom Platz and he always said, "You've gotta squat; squats are the greatest thing for your thighs." Obviously it was true for Tom Platz. He had a good structure so that when he was squatting, the majority of the stress was taken by his quadriceps; his structure was quite short. So I was religiously squatting for the first five or six years that I was training. My legs were okay but they weren't great, until I began experimenting.

Then, squatting on a Smith machine, I could position my body so it was much more isolated on the quads, less glutes and lower back involvement, didn't have to worry about the balance aspect. Actually my legs improved a lot when I was doing Smith squats, hack squats, leg presses — I could isolate the thighs a lot more. So actually I used the Smith machine quite a bit for squatting.

src: http://www.t-nation.com/article/features/d...yates_interview


although squat and deadlift r the best exercise for muscle gain, but the reality is that many ppl got injuries from them sweat.gif

QUOTE
"Heavy squats and deadlifts may not be good for you long term."

— Mike Boyle

To the Testosterone crowd, this is the heresy they hate to hear. Many of the readers are in a constant state of denial. They don't want education, they want validation and reinforcement that what they're already doing is the "best" route.

The reality is different. How many adults do you see performing heavy squats or heavy deadlifts? The answer is very few. Those few probably fall into the category of "those blessed with great discs and connective tissue."

src: http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1404712
darklight79
QUOTE(T+1 @ Jun 8 2008, 10:48 PM)
i read dorian yates interview a few days ago. it's true that different exercises work for different ppl
although squat and deadlift r the best exercise for muscle gain, but the reality is that many ppl got injuries from them  sweat.gif
*



Thank you for sharing the article. Much appreciated. And from what I've read in other sources, the GH production from heavy freeweight squatting is rather negligible.
I loved the article on Dorian Yates. He and Ronnie Coleman are still my favourite bodybuilders. Dorian has a point, which is why i've been backing off in volume in my training. I think 4 sets per exercise seems to work for me as opposed to 6 but i compensate by adding in additional exercises.
shanecross
I have to agree on Jones saying the PL stance squats makes your ass and hips big. I also thought of trying to isolate the tension to the quads. Dark, have you done the smith squat?
darklight79
QUOTE(shanecross @ Jun 9 2008, 12:30 AM)
I have to agree on Jones saying the PL stance squats makes your ass and hips big. I also thought of trying to isolate the tension to the quads. Dark, have you done the smith squat?
*



I'm gonna do it tomorrow. Want a video? =P Probably gonna try 340lbs and see. Kinda excited about it.
registryeditor
i do narrow stance, with weights plate under both my feet, full squat baby. wooohooooo! you'll feel as though ur @$$ is about to get ripped off. lol.
darklight79
QUOTE(registryeditor @ Jun 9 2008, 01:09 AM)
i do narrow stance, with weights plate under both my feet, full squat baby. wooohooooo! you'll feel as though ur @$$ is about to get ripped off. lol.
*



I've been lead in my early years to believe that it can be counterproductive because it increases the likehood of quadriceps tears but there are many people who swear by them.
shanecross
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 9 2008, 01:36 AM)
I'm gonna do it tomorrow. Want a video? =P Probably gonna try 340lbs and see. Kinda excited about it.
*



Yeap, try doing it and post a a whopping 340lbs vid.!
Kyoyagami
I have a lame gym. I dun see a place specifically made for squats and deadlifts. Nor do i see dips machine. Dammit.
jones007
QUOTE(shanecross @ Jun 9 2008, 12:30 AM)
I have to agree on Jones saying the PL stance squats makes your ass and hips big. I also thought of trying to isolate the tension to the quads. Dark, have you done the smith squat?
*


do oly squats if u have the flexibility.
Kyoyagami
I have a question, how does drop sets really help? has it helped any of you for a certain period of time?
darklight79
QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jun 9 2008, 12:01 PM)
I have a question, how does drop sets really help? has it helped any of you for a certain period of time?
*



Doing it currently for concentration curls. At my journal. Very good pump. Hesitant to try it for other bodyparts yet.
Kyoyagami
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 9 2008, 12:09 PM)
Doing it currently for concentration curls. At my journal. Very good pump. Hesitant to try it for other bodyparts yet.
*



I find it that during curls I tend to struggle much more compared to other exercises. Was thinking of changing that part since I'm currently reading on bodybuilding myths.
darklight79
QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jun 9 2008, 12:12 PM)
I find it that during curls I tend to struggle much more compared to other exercises. Was thinking of changing that part since I'm currently reading on bodybuilding myths.
*



Link?
Kyoyagami
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 9 2008, 12:14 PM)
Link?
*



http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/30lies.htm
4Rings
Don't neglect leg press, I built my quads on hi reps leg press. I think leg press is more effective for me.
Kyoyagami
QUOTE(4Rings @ Jun 9 2008, 12:25 PM)
Don't neglect leg press, I built my quads on hi reps leg press. I think leg press is more effective for me.
*



I was actually thinking at first that it is impossible to effectively do squats without using barbells. I was about to contemplate on it yet I found the opposite being true, and still also effective.

Here's something interesting I found.

QUOTE
Professional bodybuilders represent the epitome of health and fitness.

The ultimate irony is that the IFBB is facing in trying to get bodybuilders into the Olympics is that while every athlete in every other sport is presumably the healthiest they've ever been so that they are able to compete athletically and break records, the bodybuilder is so weak on competition day that he or she would have trouble fending off the attacks of an enraged mouse. The weeks of constant dieting, workouts that continually tax the body almost beyond recovery, and a constant influx of potentially harmful drugs and diuretics have brought most of them to total exhaustion.

To think about the huge amounts of food some steroid-using bodybuilders eat. In all the longevity sites in the world where people routinely live to be one hundred, the only common denominator is that they all either under-eat or eat just enough to meet their daily caloric requirements. By ingesting less food, they ingest less harmful chemicals, and fewer free radicals are formed in the body. The average professional builder probably eats at least four or five times what these aforementioned people eat.

As a result, bodybuilders often suffer from high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Plus, with all that extra mass, the heart has to work that much harder and will probably stop beating years before it was designed to. That's why professional bodybuilding is the ultimate act of vanity. It was done strictly to fulfill some misguided notion of the superhuman ideal, and health was not even a consideration. Almost without exception, these guys and gals are not healthy, and they'll probably be among the first to tell you so. However, weight-training and consuming a nutrient-rich diet is very healthy, as long as it is not carried to extremes.


That is truly interesting. biggrin.gif
darklight79
QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jun 9 2008, 12:31 PM)
I was actually thinking at first that it is impossible to effectively do squats without using barbells. I was about to contemplate on it yet I found the opposite being true, and still also effective.

Here's something interesting I found.
That is truly interesting. biggrin.gif
*



Take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt. Frank Zane and Sergio Olivia are as healthy as horses. So is Serge Nubret.

Plus who is the governor of California? =)
Kyoyagami
haha yeah. I take everything with an open heart and an open mind. I dun necessarily believe in everything I read, yet I find it interesting and insighful. biggrin.gif

Wait, fruit juice is almost equivalent to carbonated drinks. Is it really that accurate that the amount of insulin released is almost similar to carbonated drinks?
darklight79
QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jun 9 2008, 01:02 PM)
haha yeah. I take everything with an open heart and an open mind. I dun necessarily believe in everything I read, yet I find it interesting and insighful. biggrin.gif

Wait, fruit juice is almost equivalent to carbonated drinks. Is it really that accurate that the amount of insulin released is almost similar to carbonated drinks?
*



That you gotta ask 4Rings. I'm not an expert on nutrition. I know Jay Cutler drinks Coke postworkout but i wouldn't exactly follow that.

I hate carbonated drnks anyway. Never took them for more than 15 years.
metalfreak
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 9 2008, 01:07 PM)
That you gotta ask 4Rings. I'm not an expert on nutrition. I know Jay Cutler drinks Coke postworkout but i wouldn't exactly follow that.

I hate carbonated drnks anyway. Never took them for more than 15 years.
*



wah...respect...15 years man.... I rarely drink carbonated drinks myself but not in a sense of years sweat.gif

registryeditor
i know someone, well, not really literally know him. lol, but i know he's there. this someone actually gulps down a jug of beer and a whole chicken for his post-post-workout meal. guess who? he's now the governor of california.
4Rings
QUOTE(registryeditor @ Jun 9 2008, 01:24 PM)
i know someone, well, not really literally know him. lol, but i know he's there. this someone actually gulps down a jug of beer and a whole chicken for his post-post-workout meal. guess who? he's now the governor of california.
*



He did went for by-pass. Not as healthy as Jack LaLanne.
Kyoyagami
QUOTE(4Rings @ Jun 9 2008, 04:01 PM)
He did went for by-pass. Not as healthy as Jack LaLanne.
*



IINM, Jack Lalane looks quite elastic now? Sorry if I ofended anyone though, was just wondering.
registryeditor
QUOTE(4Rings @ Jun 9 2008, 04:01 PM)
He did went for by-pass. Not as healthy as Jack LaLanne.
*


haha. he certainly did but i was focusing more on his physique. i didnt know a jug of beer and a whole chicken could do wonders. maybe i should give it a shot. brows.gif
4Rings
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 9 2008, 01:07 PM)
That you gotta ask 4Rings. I'm not an expert on nutrition. I know Jay Cutler drinks Coke postworkout but i wouldn't exactly follow that.

I hate carbonated drnks anyway. Never took them for more than 15 years.
*



I was with a friend, a retired competitive bodybuilder 2 weeks ago. We were discussing about the health condition between moderate sportsmen and hardcore sportsmen. Moderate sportsmen tend to train in moderation to avoid injury and to gain certain level of physical fitness. They eat in moderation to achieve low body fat level and lead a healthy living lifestyle.

On the other hand, the hardcores would go all out to abuse their body to a degree that they would suffer from all kinds of injury.
They disregard their health by taking cocktail of performance enhancing drugs for the sake of winning.

From what we see, most bodybuilders don't eat a healthy diet. During off season, they would eat to fatten up which they called bulking. Bodybuilders are one of the species that over eat. Over eating is actually abusing our body. Sad to say that but it is true. When came to contest, their diet changed drastically to achieve a very low body fat level. This constant change of dieting would cause more stress to the body as the body is trying to adapt to the sudden change. It is affecting us psychologically too.

My friend is now suffering from injuries. Not only him, most of my ex. competitive bb friends are also suffering from chronic injuries.

BTW I am planning to go low carb next month. My body will be experiencing stress soon. wink.gif


Added on June 9, 2008, 4:42 pm
QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jun 9 2008, 04:10 PM)
IINM, Jack Lalane looks quite elastic now? Sorry if I ofended anyone though, was just wondering.
*



He is in his 90's. The elastic one should be Mr. Fantastic of FF not Jack.
Kyoyagami
QUOTE(4Rings @ Jun 9 2008, 04:41 PM)
I was with a friend, a retired competitive bodybuilder 2 weeks ago. We were discussing about the health condition between moderate sportsmen and hardcore sportsmen. Moderate sportsmen tend to train in moderation to avoid injury and to gain certain level of physical fitness. They eat in moderation to achieve low body fat level and lead a healthy living lifestyle.

On the other hand, the hardcores would go all out to abuse their body to a degree that they would suffer from all kinds of injury.
They disregard their health by taking cocktail of performance enhancing drugs for the sake of winning.

From what we see, most bodybuilders don't eat  a healthy diet. During off season, they would eat to fatten up which they called bulking. Bodybuilders are one of the species that over eat. Over eating is actually abusing our body. Sad to say that but it is true. When came to contest, their diet changed drastically to achieve a very low body fat level. This constant change of dieting would cause more stress to the body as the body is trying to adapt to the sudden change. It is affecting us psychologically too.

My friend is now suffering from injuries. Not only him, most of my ex. competitive bb friends are also suffering from chronic injuries.

BTW I am planning to go low carb next month. My body will be experiencing stress soon. wink.gif


Added on June 9, 2008, 4:42 pm

He is in his 90's. The elastic one should be Mr. Fantastic of FF not Jack.
*



Lol. guess I was looking at the wrong guy. sorry bout tat. smile.gif
darklight79
Hey all. Those who're bb.com members, please give my trainer Hola Bola a vote. He's losing out to some idiot with horrible form on the leg press:-

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=108338431
saddient
im underweight... izzit i have to take serious mass to gain weight? need some pro here
jamis
QUOTE(saddient @ Jun 10 2008, 12:21 PM)
im underweight... izzit i have to take serious mass to gain weight? need some pro here
*



u just need to take more food and separate it out in more meals.
ZeroLeingod
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Jun 10 2008, 12:18 PM)
Hey all. Those who're bb.com members, please give my trainer Hola Bola a vote. He's losing out to some idiot with horrible form on the leg press:-

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=108338431
*



Roger that! notworthy.gif
registryeditor
shit la. having hard time losing my gut. grrrrr. how ar?
jones007
low carbs dude. low carb diet.
4Rings
low carb and hi fat, not just low carb alone.
registryeditor
my current diet:

high protein
moderate fats - the fats are coming from fish coz almost all my meals are fish
low carbs
darklight79
QUOTE(registryeditor @ Jun 10 2008, 05:02 PM)
my current diet:

high protein
moderate fats - the fats are coming from fish coz almost all my meals are fish
low carbs
*



If your macros are fine, then it could be the total net calories you're taking in. You stil can get fat taking 20 cans of tuna day for example. There are still calories in protein.
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