Lowyat.NET > Are there rules? Here are my 2cents

R a D ! c 4 L

Mar 14 2008, 03:51 AM

Ok, so i've submitted this photo to another forum:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

And one of the forumers gave me this:

QUOTE

So, why didn't you reshoot? That's not a good attitude to have when your only excuse was original shot overexposed/washed out due to flash. So cannot help it lah. Got to LR and PS. It's not like a bird has flown and you can't have it back to where it was. Ask your grandpa to pose for you till you get it right. The most important basic thing in photography is to get the exposure right with clear details where you want them.

Aside from that, my 2 cents on your pic is this. Portraits have to have life. In people, the eyes need to be alive. Not a dark pool. If you have used flash, you could have gotten lights in his eyes. Just look at that picture the devianart guy you admired shot. The man with glasses and you can see his eyes.

Conclusion: you haven't mastered the most basic of photography. Light.

And this is my reply:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

So what's a good attitude for you? It was a good shot. My flash was just right and my grand dad's eyes were nicely exposed. My original photo's not completely washed out at all, i'll be happy to show you the unedited original raw. The details were clear and the exposures were subtle but there's still minor washed out parts on his forehead(mind you, just minor). Haven't it occured to you that I'd prefer to present my work that way? Please, this is digital photography here, PP happens once you click and snap the photo, dont give me stories about birds flown or not. I know my exposures are right. And with that comes the benefit of shooting in RAW. When we talk about RAW all the settings are 0. Means you have to start over, giving you the liberty to pay attention to every good shots you took. And with that I decided to give it my own way of editing the photo. Havent it occured to you that I wanted to present my work in my own fashion? I would not like to be bound by those stupid rules of whether portraits must have life or not, those are hypocritical talk for me. It's a matter of making your photo interesting or not. I know I made mine interesting, sorry that it's not for you.

I know you are trying to be helpful here, but sometimes rules are meant to be bend. Post processing is around since traditional film era. Ppl used filters to enchance contrast or brighten up the photo through the enlarger. Im pretty sure that you are aware of that. Photoshop is just something to make things easier and lightroom is just a very very good raw converter. Yes I admired the guy's photos in devart, but I don't have to follow what he did too, eh? I'm pretty sure that you know what I'm talking about here. If you do not agree, so be it, and just bear with it. I know what's a good photo and what's not. Here's the original unedited photo, have a look. Oh yeah I just noticed that there's no clippings or what so ever:
user posted image

Though I haven't mastered the most basic of photography - light. But im still at the process. And please understand that I do take your notes seriously. I do too like to get accurate exposures for my shots(you know what I mean), but if one would just stick to that rule then there wouldnt be any yada yadas like high key portraits or low key stuffs.

Im just here defending my work as I believe in it. TQ.

Oh here's my conclusion: Stop being hypocritical and stop making assumptions. And for your FIY there's really little photoshoping in this one.

Like always ill defend my work if I feel violated. But that's not the point of this thread.

The point is I found that many, I mean literally, many ppl are too bounded by the rules. For instance from what that fella said "Portraits have to have life. In people, the eyes need to be alive. Not a dark pool". This kind of thoughts are what that makes me sighed about Malaysia's photography scene. Its not that I want us to be like those guai lous. What I want to stress here is ppl should really learn and be open to different ideas(cliche aint it?).

From my point of view a good photo is always something that is interesting, be it underexposed or not because sometimes underexposure adds up to the whole mood. Sometimes a "washed out" photo yield a very strong sense of meaning into it too, like this one:
http://gilad.deviantart.com/art/Freedom-is...nality-71560309

I know some take photography as a hobby only but what's a good hobby if you just stayed at the same paste all the time? We often stay in our comfort zone and not do anything else, I just found out recently that I've stayed too long in my comfort zone and now im stuck on producing good ideas and furthermore making my photos more interesting. Most of the shots I took recently just reminded me that "others can do the same too without any effort". The strong urge of trying to make something different is really strong and chances and ideas are hard to come by.

There are a few photographers here who stood by their own rules and yet still produce good photos, but the problem is little that they know that it's always the same thing again and again.

Come guys, share your opinion. Be serious in this thread. Let's discuss and try to do something different for a change, eh? Let's put events shooting aside.

goldfries

Mar 14 2008, 04:13 AM

i judge a photo based on how i FEEL when looking at it.

simple as that. don't let the rules bind you.

IMO as long as you're don't have the attitude of attempting to turn shit into gold, it's say it's fine.

who cares how much you PP, as long as it comes out nice.

khairolnizam

Mar 14 2008, 04:16 AM

its a great photo.. who cares about the rules.. whats important is u got the photo how u want it to be..

myjunk

Mar 14 2008, 04:32 AM

I would really love to learn how to PP that into This man.. This looks GOOD!

mindkiller6610

Mar 14 2008, 05:12 AM

photography rules are made for people to take nice and good photographs easier, so that they wont get frustrated easily, but if u notice, most of the winning photograph often have their own rules in it.

it is like, u follow the rules right, u get nice results,
if u break the rules, either u get super outstanding photos,
or u get the other way round

wKkaY

Mar 14 2008, 05:27 AM

The budding artist.

Misunderstood.

Assertive.

And insecure.

Oh, here's a cartoon character, Alf, with dark pools in his eye sockets. Lovely, aren't they?

Jim

Mar 14 2008, 06:16 AM

For me, I won't waste time and money on those filters. I rather photoshop it. The most important thing is to get a nice exposed, sharp raw photo. Then you can change whatever you like to enhance the photo using photoshop. As long as the result is good.

xeNOS

Mar 14 2008, 06:31 AM

ya i agree with you, v must try to think out of the box to attempt what ppl not usually attempt, and extraordinary results do come from 'extraordinary' effort!

great photo i must say !

davidmak

Mar 14 2008, 07:29 AM

Well R a D ! c 4 L, do you see those artists of creative arts bounded any rules? Are photography not an art with light?

The good news is, there are none. Its all about exposure. You're in control of your own rules, desire and taste. That is how it is reflected on the pictures you take. Those people do not understand and have far deviated from original photography. When you look at a picture, you look at what the 'author' is trying to say or present. You look at a picture from their perspective and try to understand it. Not the other way around. Not trying to look into a picture from your own perspective. Of course it won't satisfy their rules. Because it isn't their work.

Another standpoint to look in a picture is to humble ourselves and feel the art. We won't see any good in anything if we don't humble ourselves because all of a sudden, nothing looks right. Then again, we don't look anything close to right in the eyes of God. So stay encouraged my friend.

clemong_888

Mar 14 2008, 07:30 AM

QUOTE(Jim @ Mar 14 2008, 06:16 AM)

For me, I won't waste time and money on those filters. I rather photoshop it. The most important thing is to get a nice exposed, sharp raw photo. Then you can change whatever you like to enhance the photo using photoshop. As long as the result is good.

there are filters still required in the digital age,u can choose to be ignorant and say that pp is the solution to everything but thats not always the case.

@radical

i have always admired your work because it has always been different. nothing should deter you from it. honestly, i don't see anything wrong with this photo.the opposite to life is no life and both would make interesting subjects at the right situations/mood.u should continue the way u r, u're already better than most people out there, me included

NasiLemakMan

Mar 14 2008, 07:32 AM

As for your shot, it was rather good. I didn't see any problems with your lighting even in the pp.

Everybody has his/her own styles and hence rules. Forcing others into your own ideology is not a nice thing to do. Just take what is good and discard what is otherwise. People always had his/her own opinions. The way I see it it's what made you feel is the most important. Unless one is a pro and depend on photography for food that's a different matter.

davidmak

Mar 14 2008, 07:55 AM

QUOTE(NasiLemakMan @ Mar 14 2008, 07:32 AM)

As for your shot, it was rather good. I didn't see any problems with your lighting even in the pp.

Everybody has his/her own styles and hence rules. Forcing others into your own ideology is not a nice thing to do. Just take what is good and discard what is otherwise. People always had his/her own opinions. The way I see it it's what made you feel is the most important. Unless one is a pro and depend on photography for food that's a different matter.

Hehehe! Ya, some morons likes to play with our minds and make our day go down. Its not going to happen today Bro! Hehehehe!

Ahmike

Mar 14 2008, 08:08 AM

Sometimes got friend say how come the photo black and white only or why you got defocus the whole picture for...

I told them i want it that way it what i feel and think. If the picture is not suitable in 1 eyes doesn't mean it not suitable for other ppl perception.

davidmak

Mar 14 2008, 08:16 AM

QUOTE(Ahmike @ Mar 14 2008, 08:08 AM)

Sometimes got friend say how come the photo black and white only or why you got defocus the whole picture for...

I told them i want it that way it what i feel and think. If the picture is not suitable in 1 eyes doesn't mean it not suitable for other ppl perception.

Exactly. One man's rubbish may be another one's gold. Very ironic and it happens all around us. Some people just don't learn it and be ignorant about it. Its called 'cannot lose'. Hahahaha! Whispering in their minds, "How come this one so nice one and I cannot take it that way, shit.. must be some problem with their skills." Hahahahah!

Ahmike

Mar 14 2008, 08:36 AM

QUOTE(davidmak @ Mar 14 2008, 08:16 AM)

Exactly. One man's rubbish may be another one's gold. Very ironic and it happens all around us. Some people just don't learn it and be ignorant about it. Its called 'cannot lose'. Hahahaha! Whispering in their minds, "How come this one so nice one and I cannot take it that way, shit.. must be some problem with their skills." Hahahahah!

Yeah i mean its like those old paintings....some of them can draw the picture/colour looks so creepy.. but can value millions...

The Scream (Skrik, 1893) is a seminal series of expressionist paintings by Norwegian artist Edvard Munch

zzloo

Mar 14 2008, 08:40 AM

So what those rules? As long as I feel that photo is nice to me, then it's fine.

szyap

Mar 14 2008, 09:01 AM

image directly our from a camera = photos
photos enhanced using PP + creativity = arts
arts appreciated by others = priceless

if one doesn't appreciate it...so wat?
d world wont stop b'coz if him/her...

therefore...
keep producing priceless art...

dx_myrddraal

Mar 14 2008, 09:29 AM

the guy on the other forum probably doesn't know what he's talking about.. I love that picture of your grand-dad.. don't know how to describe it, but I like it..

think of rules as general guidelines.. guidelines that make sure your shot turns out decent.. there are no rules that apply to every single photo, eg: the rule of thirds.. often broken in portraits..

Ahmike

Mar 14 2008, 09:32 AM

QUOTE(dx_myrddraal @ Mar 14 2008, 09:29 AM)

the guy on the other forum probably doesn't know what he's talking about.. I love that picture of your grand-dad.. don't know how to describe it, but I like it..

think of rules as general guidelines.. guidelines that make sure your shot turns out decent.. there are no rules that apply to every single photo, eg: the rule of thirds.. often broken in portraits..

I agree... i like TS shot .

shinchan^^

Mar 14 2008, 09:44 AM

maybe the contrast is too much after pp

HenryLow

Mar 14 2008, 09:54 AM

i just have ini malaysia, you tak suka you keluar dari malaysia punya feel....

goldfries

Mar 14 2008, 09:55 AM

good / bad bokeh - serious, unless it's disturbing, i wouldn't care as long as the picture still looks nice. no, i don't care whether it's a moon, a doughnut or a hexagonal nut.

too warm, so? that doesn't make it a bad picture

not detail enough / noisy, so? do you look at it really up close?

of course, that doesn't mean there are those bad photos that don't require second thoughts la but my point is sometimes we go into too much technicality and details, we forget to enjoy the art itself.

HenryLow

Mar 14 2008, 10:05 AM

eh, siapa makan chili, siapa rasa pedas:

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soulfly

Mar 14 2008, 10:08 AM

This photo is not for competition right? Just a casual snapshot? This is what I get from looking at it lah.

VincC454

Mar 14 2008, 10:22 AM

QUOTE(HenryLow @ Mar 14 2008, 09:54 AM)

i just have ini malaysia, you tak suka you keluar dari malaysia punya feel....

lao i love this quote...can make it quote of the day lol

davidmak

Mar 14 2008, 10:22 AM

QUOTE(Ahmike @ Mar 14 2008, 08:36 AM)

Yeah i mean its like those old paintings....some of them can draw the picture/colour looks so creepy.. but can value millions...

The Scream (Skrik, 1893) is a seminal series of expressionist paintings by Norwegian artist Edvard Munch

Reminds me of a time when my family found a very expensive and valuable oil painting dumped outside a commercial building undergoing renovation. I don't know why they would dump such a painting by a popular Chinese artist but maybe it fake. So after going through some careful 'eyes' by respected valuers, its a genuine. Maybe the renovators didn't know and dump it after all. So don't think rubbish bins are for rubbish. A lot of people dump a lot of value in it. Hehehehehe!

By the way, it remind me that I always found something useful out of other people's bin. Not that I'm a scavenger but I just always happen to pass by something nice. Kekekeke!

goldfries

Mar 14 2008, 10:34 AM

IMO that shot of his is still better than many shots i see in our Photo Gallery and it is indeed worthy of entering competition, as long as the theme fits it.

for me, there's a feel in this picture.

the black and white touch + the old man gazing towards you (yes, the viewer) , it gives you the feel of "OLD" or "AGED" while the way he gazes on the viewer along with the formation of his lips which i can't tell whether it's neutral, smiling or not so happy just makes you wonder what he's thinking.

all in all, it boils down to individual and how they appreciate the picture, PPed or not. in this case, i love the picture.

clemong_888

Mar 14 2008, 11:28 AM

QUOTE(goldfries @ Mar 14 2008, 10:34 AM)

IMO that shot of his is still better than many shots i see in our Photo Gallery and it is indeed worthy of entering competition, as long as the theme fits it.

for me, there's a feel in this picture.

the black and white touch + the old man gazing towards you (yes, the viewer) , it gives you the feel of "OLD" or "AGED" while the way he gazes on the viewer along with the formation of his lips which i can't tell whether it's neutral, smiling or not so happy just makes you wonder what he's thinking.

all in all, it boils down to individual and how they appreciate the picture, PPed or not. in this case, i love the picture.

exactly how i feel. i like the eyes actually, black and lifeless (not to say that rad's grandpa is so

)

zzloo

Mar 14 2008, 11:47 AM

i like the feel of TS's pic.. that 1 in B&W.. suit my taste

Art is priceless.. when some1 love it, he/she will to pay a lot for it, but if he/she dont like it, that thing is worthless to he/she..

Xannava

Mar 14 2008, 12:11 PM

Lets see.... rules? Think Picaso. He created a unique way of expressing himself.

MR.Shiney

Mar 14 2008, 12:22 PM

i totally agree with radical, we don't always have to follow the rules.
for me whether its pleasurable to watch, that matters.

my dad says, nothing is wrong when it comes to art

( is it right? )

davidmak

Mar 14 2008, 11:11 PM

QUOTE(MR.Shiney @ Mar 14 2008, 12:22 PM)

i totally agree with radical, we don't always have to follow the rules.
for me whether its pleasurable to watch, that matters.

my dad says, nothing is wrong when it comes to art

( is it right? )

Definitely nothing is right or wrong. Just accepted art or controversial art. When it comes to human expression, everything fits in the context. You can twist and turn to your like. We only see what we want to see.

fcbarcelona-my

Mar 14 2008, 11:39 PM

my eyes are pleasent with ur pic. nothing wrong with it.

maybe a bit overexposed..but i like the expression itself.

Ka3tr0

Mar 14 2008, 11:43 PM

TS..good photo !!

Heres my first impression
1. So many detail...which is nice
2. The white hair brings out the picture so much !!!..love it
3. The black eye with tiny spot shine..good..it remind me of Heroes movie of that gurls with black blood bleeding eyes
4. Black area/shadow below the nose..makes me think flash light coming from top coz the shadow line almost straight..true ??

Overall...good feel !! i would rename the filename to OTAI..haha..just my 2 cent

hz428

Mar 15 2008, 12:09 AM

QUOTE(Jim @ Mar 14 2008, 06:16 AM)

For me, I won't waste time and money on those filters. I rather photoshop it. The most important thing is to get a nice exposed, sharp raw photo. Then you can change whatever you like to enhance the photo using photoshop. As long as the result is good.

u can forget all other fileters but not these CPL, ND4/8, ND Graduate filters

GulaV

Mar 15 2008, 01:15 AM

For me, as an amateur photog, which most of my photos are viewed by normal person (family and friends etc), not by the pro out there, as long as the shot is not for competition whatsoever, just don't play by the rules. Experimenting is what we amateurs need to be as close as the pros. Like instance, out of 20 shots i've taken, only 1-2 are worth being further processed, which is a bad figure for me. But I don't care. As long I'm happy with the final product, no one else can judge me. Only me and my own rules.

By the way, that shot was nice. Even it's simple, it's near perfect. Full of details and nice exposure balancing between shadows and highlights. You should let no one judge you by that kind of statements. It just condemning you because I know, he can't take better shot that that. lol.

Equipments are important too. For those who says filters whatsoever are not important, think again. If everything can be PSed, why bother buying expensive cameras? Equipments are needed to get a perfect shot. For me, I'm more than happy if the shot is nice (with correct exposure etc) out of the camera than have to PP it.

Photography is an art. Not a science with all the rules and formulas.

ifer

Mar 15 2008, 09:12 AM

eee. this portrait is brilliant.
what i like about this photo is the uneasy feeling i get when i am looking at it.

the dark pool eyes (where someone dislike it) and the high contrast (where it gives me a sense of metallic feel. a very insecure feeling to me. a dangerous feeling) and the fact that your grandpa had this slight snigger.

is the title called 'a mandarin portrait'?
mandarin as in those ministry dudes during the ching dynasty?
where they were well known to be a 2 headed snake and care for nothing except for themselves?

i am not saying that your grandpa is this sort of person. it is just what this image gives me when i am reading it. yes, read. not look.

oh! i dont care how u do this photograph or how 'wrong' are you in exposure or stuffs. what i am more concern is the final outcome of the photograph.

the longer i read this photo, the more i see that 'mandarin' look from his face. the big earlobe, the high forehead. the don't know what he is planning type of snigger.

its just brilliant.

mars2005

Mar 15 2008, 12:33 PM

Just like oths, i judge by my feel looking at the pic, what i don't like bout this pic is high contrast, which make my eye not comfy, especially the on the face. Other then that, i like it. It's just personal preference.