Guys,

Need your help to buy a prosumers digicam

Type of camera/lens/accesories : Prosumers camera
Budget : RM1200
Your Location : KL
Preferable brand : Canon / Panasonic /Nikon
Type of photography u want to do : Landscape or Portrait
Any specific models in mind? : Sony Dsc-H3, Panasonic Lumix-FZ8, Canon Powershot S5 IS
Any specific features u want? : Image stabiliser, good quality low-light image , extended zoom (more 10x)

Really appreciate your comment. Thanks!

wAHT SIFU SIFU.... He! He! Prosumer all the same using the same sensor chip. So, go buy the one that you fancied the most.

shouldnt all of these be in trading section? i see many topics asking about which camera to but in the photography section instead of its subforum(trading section) nevertheless..hehe... i also give my opinion la... if you go for lumix, the noise is quite apparent esp their prosumer...Sony...good but might be more expensive lor...canon should be ...features seems to be good:)

eh how good is good? All the prosumers I believe suffer from high noise at the higher ISO range. In fact, I think most of it can see significant noise from ISO800 onwards.

good quality low-light image

None of the listed.

ISO800 is ok..but for panasonic its like even at its lowest ISO you can already see noise..at ISO800 its almost like mt d40's H1+color grains...

oo really , then what will be the best among them?
one more, is Nikon have the prosumers range?

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Added on March 4, 2008, 9:59 pm

Sifoo, is Canon S5 Is good enough? i'm totally out of idea, on one side, i like lumix, but the noise on the lower ISO make me feel down..so is canon the bestest of all?

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Added on March 4, 2008, 10:01 pm

Sifoo, sorry, actually i didn't realize the subforum. .after i realize, already put in the subforum..but seems here got lot of response,,i'll continue here

Among the three, S5 IS is the best. Although there are a lot of visible noise at ISO800, the details of the photo is still pretty much retained. IMHO, sony's noise reduction in their prosumer is too much; you'll lose all the details.
Noise is not really a problem as you can always use softwares like noise ninja to remove whereas lost details are permanently lost.

mengsuan, thanks for the oppinion..now i'm more focus to choose my prosumers..
one more thing, i really care about taking picture under low light condition..let say i choose S5 IS, how to minimize the noise under low light condition? flash with diffuser?

For best low noise, I believe the fuji prosumers are best. Better than even Canon. Color rendition is also exception (I believe this is their forte as well). That's all I know.

If you use flash, then no longer considered low light.

If you use flash, your ISO can be low again. Using the built in flash with diffuser sounds good, but it may not be powerful enough. Btw, S5 IS has hotshoe connector. You can buy a 430EX or 580EX II to use it on the camera.

Thank again sifoo i think i will go for S5 IS

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Added on March 5, 2008, 12:10 am


bro, i was thinking to use the flash with diffuser..at least it can preserve the mood under low light cond

Using a diffuser won't preserve mood. It will just soften the light and makes it less powerful.

You need to drag the shutter or boost iso (well at least that's how we do it in the SLR world).

i wouldn't say make it less powerful but i would prefer to put it that the light is diffused so that the impact is not as harsh as how it would when the flash is direct.

That depends on what you're bouncing the flash on. Some diffusers are meant for certain type of work. If you want something that preserves the mood, diffuser like 'mini soft box' cloth-like thingy is great for preserving complexion and other things. Then you always bounce on large relatively white walls because it will act like a very large soft box like diffuser. Flash photography is not about lighting everything in plain brightness. Sometimes exposing the shadows would give different texture and ambient, not necessary keeping everything exposed. If you know what I mean.

In the SLR world, yeah thats what we do. We blend our flash with the ambient. We either increase ISO or reduce shutter speed to expose the background. In addition, we play with aperture to expose the subject. If you reduce shutter speed and flash, you will most likely overexpose your subject. So aperture is very important too. But its hard to get a fine balance in these situations like shooting your subject behind KLCC. You will most likely need a tripod to help you in this.

For prosumers, I would suggest a camera with a hotshoe flash. Very important if you decide to extend its functionality.

Why people like to use that high ISO? Is that so important for purchase a camera? I try to avoid as much as possible to use high ISO. Even ISO400, consider too high for me. The picture look like shit with those noise. Unless you manipulate the noise to art.

Yeah for prosumer/compacts, it is better to avoid high ISO. ISO400 is the max I would suggest. Thats why getting one with hotshoe flash is important to offset this disadvantage. But you can also use noise reduction software. It'll at least give you some options there.

Guys, I put up a poll..hope you can participate..Thanks

I actually like the Panasonic's ergonomics and handling. But I had to choose S5 IS because I've seen my friends using them with good results. You should also add in Olympus UZ-560??? because this model was touted by salesman as to be better when compared with Panasonic's.

Voted for the Canon because I used to own an S3IS and the S5 is a good improvement over it.

Especially the inclusion of hotshoe

Having a camera with good noise control in higher ISO is very essential for me. Personally, I dislike using flash on prosumers. Many prosumer users will use the built-in flash that would produce harsh photo. Moreover, in some places, flash is prohibited. That's when high ISO helps. A noisy photo is better than a blur photo.

Btw movanns, S5 IS has image stabilizer. That allows S5 IS to use a lower ISO indoor without getting blur.


Believe it or not, many prosumer users upgrade to DSLR because of their high ISO ability. The amount of noise produced ISO3200 in Canon 40D is less than ISO200 in S5IS.
So apparently many people find it important when purchasing a camera.

mengsuan, do you think with my budget, i should go for DSLR ?..but i dont think can get that range for a DSLR. the closest might be a used EOS350D

talking about noise, do i need regularly to change the the ISO level above 200? if it just to be use in a very minimal condition, then S5 should be good for me

The point with S5 is, you can add a flash to it later in ownership. That way you can avoid going high ISO because the flash will compensate for you. You can drag your shutter longer because of the IS too. Another way to gain exposure. You still can use high ISO and do noise reduction later on PC.

Of course if you want something very low light, then DSLR will be a good option. If your budget isn't up for it, then you can either save longer (if its the matter of an extra of few hundreds) or get a used unit. But do not expect results straight up with the kit lens though. This is because there are a lot of other components you need. Thats why going DSLR will have a lot of hidden costs.

If you're fine with it, then its ok. Otherwise, a good setup like S5 IS will be great in my opinion.

davidmak, it's really a good point you have here hidden cost might killing me..anyway, as the sifoo said, S5 still on top of my list

Yeah S5 IS is indeed a good choice. But this model is getting too long in the tooth. I actually anticipate a replacement model soon. But the time is of anyone's guess so its pointless to speculate now. What about the G-series of Canon? Is the G9 priced comparatively with S5 IS?

Used Nikon D40 is 1.4-1.6K only. How much is the S5?

The S5 should be around there as well. The only difference is that the D40 with kit lens covers only a certain range.

With the S5, he gets the macro, the wide, the zoom etc all straight out of the package. As davidmak said, DSLR ada banyak hidden costs so it is not only about buying teh camera and the lens.

ebernie, new S5 can get around 1.2k

davidmak, G9 onlys upport 6x optical zoom lor..

Ya, the shorter range. The S5 IS 15x right? Well the S5 IS looks to be able to cover a wide area of photography in just one package. For a beginner I think this is a good start especially if your budget is low. My reason of saying why DSLR has a lot of hidden cost is due to personal experience. I had a budget too. When I got my camera, I realize I can't get out-of-the-box results that I had hoped for. Maybe my expectations were high. Then one week after that I got a better lens, one week after that I get the flash, etc.

Was like buying every other week man! Hahaha! Scary. In the end, stretched my budget beyond recognition. Should have got the 400D + 17-85 kit instead of the 18-55. Then things could have been better. But sooner or later, seeing your friend's pictures and realizing what your DSLR can do and how severely you are limiting it, you'll get discourage very soon and in the end putting it aside gathering dust. So naturally we would want to keep it active so that we feel our investment is well paid off. But you get yourself deep into the water deeper every time.

Hence, I think for people who are not sure how serious they are into photography and might not want to spend a whole lot of money, then a prosumer all-in-one package is a good option. You buy just one product to do everything. Then add a flash to lengthen its life-span. Also remember, the flash can be used when you upgrade to DSLR too.

Of course I'm considering the usefulness of my suggestion, not in terms of quality and performance. If you want performance of course DSLR is the way. But sometimes we need to consider other areas of consumer demand.

A DSLR kit lens is wider la (at least on the cropped sensor models). About 28mm after taking into account crop factor. Zoom definitely not that far, only 82mm. Macro not that great, but the kit lens can do macro too.

Hidden cost only if you crave for it.

One can say getting a prosumer has hidden cost as well. If you're bitten by the photog bug (or poisoned by friends hehe), then you'll be heading towards DSLR road anyway.

In fact, one can say getting a compact cam has a hidden cost as well, coz then you'll be craving for a prosumer. Hahahaha

Yes, hidden costs is present. But DEFINITELY not as big and significant as the DSLR's. This is some very obvious. Thats why we need to check how serious we are into this thing before dipping our heads in. Otherwise, its money waste into something that we're gonna sell it out at Garage section or other friends and get slayed for the selling price. In the end, we lost say 5-10% for nothing. Not worth it.

lol well i jumped from digicam, to prosumer to dslr so I have felt the burn

It depends on how fast you outgrow your camera. I know people who use their prosumer and produce outstanding shots and refused to move to DSLR until they really feel that it is time.

You also get people like me who jumped the moment I see what kind of shots I want and find the equipment to take those shots. Skills come in later la

I still recommend a prosumer first though. The jump is not that drastic.

Guys,

i'm kinda slow..after 4 years using compact cam, now moving to prosumers..hehehe..dunno how many years to go for the DSLR

But i think i'm not the type of hardcore user..maybe prosumers more than good for me..as long the picture is not blur and lot of noise..haha

Well, your pick. Either way, just be happy with what you chose. What's more important is to understand your gear so that you can work around its weaknesses.

I skipped the prosumers and went straight to DSLR. Cheaper because then I don't need to sell any second hand prosumer

Yes Sir! agree with you ..looks like the poll majority choose the S5 IS..now i know what will be my choice..Thanks All for your kind help and idea and oppinion.

Excellent choice. One of the main advantages of the S5 is decent quality (when compared with DSLR) at a small package. You get to travel with it and still keep it in your bag. Not with DSLR however. Its either the gears or the bag. hehehehe!

Not to make you think again, but cameralabs.com decided that the Lumix prosumer is slightly better, especially if you love ultrazoom lenses.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_S5_IS/

Its a tough choice really. A very close one. Thats why I say the S5 IS has been too long in the tooth. Released long time ago.

from my reading, lumix prosumers did bad in low light and lot of noise for higher ISO (even lower got noise)..can canon compete that?

Not sure, I have not use one before but one of my colleague is using S5 IS with good performance so I take his word that noise performance is acceptable. I think a lot of people here also said the same thing. Besides if you compare with Lumix, a lot of people has been saying Olympus SP-560 UZ is a better option because it achieves better noise performance than Lumix. But as a safer option, S5 IS is the way

OK2..dun want to think over again..stick with S5 IS

Kekeke! Sorry to confuse you. But do read more reviews and then compare it with your decision. If you don't feel right, then something is wrong. If you're still confident, then you know you have made an informed decision.

Don't choose a camera just base on the picture quality. After decide the picture quality, others factor got to look also. Example battery. Special battery(Li-On) better or normal AA better. SD card better or XD or stick better. Video quality.
S5IS should be good choice.

Yes ozak, i agree with you..this also are the contributing factors for our photography satisfaction
Now the poll are increasing and pointing to S5 IS..i'm now confident with the choice.

Because there a lot of Canon fans in this area in fact I think the Powershot S5 is the most active prosumer thread in this forum.

Good also, at least you have a community you can fall back on.

Aiya..really arr ??
hehe..hope they are right and i believe they do as they are playing with the gear
Yes, just waiting my budget to the level, then can join the community

How bout the Sony H-9? Any users around here would like to give any comment on it?

Then you have plenty of time to do some window shopping. No harm trying out different models to see if you like the ergonomics and handling. Sometimes features and button placement is more important than picture quality alone. You must know which feature you should insist, like the hotshoe flash. Some models don't have them. So remember the key features you are looking for. The rest is just second priority. That way you can get a product that meets your expectations.

Although, this forum is filled with Canon/Nikon fans, I myself always stressed on value maximization at a competitive price and features your money can buy. Its your money and it is hard earned so you deserve to have choices. Good luck k!

sony H9 colour is vibrant straight out of cam

hmm, is it a GOOD buy then? Not considering the budget I had, of cuz. I actually had an EOS 400D and eventually passed it to my sis that had more skills handlin a DSLR than me. So, I was thinking to get a prosumer for myself. Any suggestion? I know the Canon S5 is good, any other suggestion other than that? Thanks for the feedback ...