planing 2 buy 1 of it
canon EOS 350D / nikon D40,
any coman

Canon 350D, forget about D40 unless you plan to get a DSLR just for the sake of getting one. It's among the worst cheapo DSLR made by Nikon.

Second that.

Else , spend it on Sony A200.

In before C and N war.

Ditch both, get A200

Canon 350D -> Compatible with close to 80+ lenses from the past 20 years since 1987. You can buy used and fantastic lenses like 70-200 f4 or f2.8. Cheap and superior optically! Not to mention super fast autofocusing ensure you getting high success rate on your photo. All at affordable price!

Nikon D40 -> Mounting compatible with lenses launch since 20 years ago. Upon investigation, 90% of them cannot autofocus with it... so you can almost forget about getting good used lense in the market. You cannot even autofocus with the very basic 50 f1.8. And among those 10% newer lenses that allow you to autofocus, very few of them is affordable... less than 5?

I seriously suggest you to get the Canon + kits lens + a used 70-200 L lense. Then you will looks pretty pro... and you will like your photos more from the L zoom and finally will understand the power of L. And most likely will keep spending on more and more Ls....

By the way, one of my friends that bought the D40 finally cannot tahan with lenses choices problem... and want to get a D80 already.

And if you have the cash, buy the Canon 40D as it is the cheapest dSLR among Canon & Nikon to feature the incredible live view!

For Current stage...(not compare A300 & 450D)
A200 might be a good choice if you compare 350D and D40.
If you want to choose between these 2 model, 350D is good feature camera and got a lot cheap lens with good quality but 40D not much provide you more other brand lens(no motor inside 40D body).

hope can help you!!!

yeah, a200 is a good start up . if you only wan canon or nikon, i'll say go for canon, easier to find used lens.

If you're a CSI fan, you might wanna get Nikon.

umm try the 350d and see if you can live with the small grip and also the small lcd. currently i think the a200 is a bargain. better grip, better lcd, SSS, SPOT and it is much newer (the 350d is 2 gen old). else can also wait for new a300/pentax k200d and see how that perform.

if u only want between 350D and D40,

350D, if u are going to buy new lens in short future,

D40, if u are not going to buy new lens in short future, the d40 kit lens is better than the canon's.

however, i would suggest u go get the a200 for starter, get the twins lens too if u wan..

350D for sure, but since A200 is already up, it's a good dslr for beginners. =)

Lol, tried the 400d from Canon. If the 350d's build quality is like the 400d, I cannot understand why anyone would want it. The body AND lens is very poorly built. Quote from my girlfriend when holding it: "huh? Feels like a toy" and "cheap plastic". I don't know the price of a 350d but the 400d is very much more expensive than the D40. Not worth the price. The savings can go towards a flash or lense. My suggestion is to try both cameras, then make the decision.

About the limitation of lens for D40, it's a NON issue. Maybe a year ago, this would've been a problem but nowadays even 3rd party lenses have built-in motor to auto-focus. Let me illustrate:

1. Fast lense: Tokina 17-50 f2.8 or Nikkor equivalent.
2. Ultra zoom: Tokina 18-250mm or Sigma 18-200mm or Nikkor equivalent.
3. Wide angle: Sigma 10-20mm or Nikkor 12-24.
4. Primes (incidentally, macro): 60mm or 105mm Nikkor
5. Fast telephoto: 70-200mm Nikkor f2.8 (AF-S lenses go up to 600mm prime)

So, where's the shortage of lenses? The more important thing is, the more you save the better because lenses and flash costs money. Then there's the bag, the dry box...

You can always upgrade the body later on. P/S: Some lenses are worth manual focusing - e.g. the 50mm f.18. It's fast and dirt cheap. Get it even if it needs to be manually focused, it's not too hard.

OK, having said all of that, let me say one more thing: Indecision is a sin. Get a camera already! Have fun shooting! Woohoo!

go get a200 with the twin kit lens .. it's a great dslr to start with.

Freak`

exactly, not i wanted to sabo canon becoz i m using d40, but that's the fact, just like d40's AF motor disappearance.

look at the 350d,400d's and the kit-lens plastic not really that professional build.
Try and hold a 350d /400d,press the buttons,played with their kitlens, zoom in and out, manual focus it, then try the nikon d40, u will notice the differences.

specification and features wise, yes, 350d has better advantages, more focus point, AF-motor.
but it depends on ur needs actually.

if u like nikon system but hate d40 for the lacking of AF-motors,
get the d80, it is really affordable, and even more after replacement model is out.
or get the d50,d70,d70s, but those only available in second hand market.


Sony A200 system is really nice for starters, 2.5k has coverage from 18-300mm, but if u wanna add in more specific lens / accessories, u might face limited choices and higher price.

Wah, even a girl can say the 350D feels cheap?

Canon 350D
- 1.8" LCD, very dim in sunlight
- no spot metering, so it's hard to use in concerts and backlit subjects
- more buttons than D40
- most expensive big flash (580EX II = RM1580)

Nikon D40
- 2.5" LCD, not bad
- got spot metering
- AF only with AF-S and AF-I lenses. That means you cannot use the Nikkor 50mm F1.8 lens. That also means that it is useless in low light unless you get the Sigma 30mm F1.4 with HSM (RM1600+)
- very few buttons. Cannot change ISO and then WB and then Drive mode quickly.
- most useful big flash (SB-800 = RM1350)

Sony A200
- 2.7" LCD, good in sunlight
- got spot metering
- AF with all Minolta AF lenses as well as Sony lenses
- more buttons than D40
- better ISO performance than 350D and D40
- cheapest big flash (HVL-F56AM = RM1200)
- 70-200mm F2.8 and 300mm F2.8 lenses will be more expensive, however unless you're a professional you will not spend that much, and will probably find a Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 will satisfy. A Minolta 70-210mm F4 "beercan" is said to be L-like in sharpness, and the Sony Carl Zeiss lenses are L-quality also.

got 2 dslr in hand
nikon d40 and canon 400d
bigest disapointment at 400d that af must point to very bright contrast
while d40 can focus at quite low contrast area
other than that
canon 400d is better than nikon d40

why different term?

for a person who isn't familiar with cameras, those points above are misleading.

A Nissin Di622 is only RM 400+ or so. between that and the 580EX II there's also the Canon 430EX and Sunpak PZ42X among the many other flash around.

I'm not sure about Nikon and Sony but my point is that the above points seem to be like points that try to sway people to Sony's side.

How about we bring another practical item into the picture, say the battery grip?

And as for the Sony A200 - let's not forget the SSS feature, which I think it's really nice.

anyway TS. the A200 is really new while the 350D is aged (once 450D come out it'll be 2 generations back) and the D40 is between these 2. For RM 2k - I'd say the A200 probably the most feature-rich unit you can buy.

i also planing to get one but always dont know which one to choose. I plan to get second hand 400D but a new sony A200 is just less than 2k for a new body n lens. So u guys wat u think? Canon 400D better or A200 better?

I like to take landscape, macro and some holiday picture.

A200 is slightly at advantage for landscape with its 1.5x FOV crop, or in other means... wider viewing angle at the same focal length. Sony glasses (and Minolta) have richer colour compare to Canon non-L lens which tend to be more neutral, and some say flat. I just can't think of anything that 400D has better to offer than a A200 apart from a large selection of lens.

---

Added on February 4, 2008, 9:01 am
Dude... you are mixing up Tokina with Tamron. They're not the same thing.

Hi colourfulz,

I think Canon 350D is the best Entry Level DSLR.

This camera got a few award from some organisation photo group.

All lens for EF in the market all can fix into it.

But Nikon D40 got abit problem lol.

For A200, no comment. But Lens is damn expensive, If u rich that go for it.

If u go for Nikon, better u buy the mid range level D200 above.

The performance is there.

Just pain now and u get the benefit for future.

I'm planning to buy Nikon D300 after CNY.

Maybe my Canon 350D is secondary lol.

I tell u the true, just buy the mid range level lah.

Pain pain 1 shoot lah.

Dun like me waste money to upgrade.

One of the best primes for cropping factor is 85mm. The pictures always standout! This lense been my favourite since many years ago. My friends love my pictures, and they had bought similar primes, except those having FF getting 135L instead.

I do not see how D40 can autofocus with any 85mm prime...

that's a common stereotype. it might be slightly expensive, but not damn expensive okay.

I agree with you that Mainstream camera like Canon 40D or Nikon D300 actually give much more value than budget/beginer series. One of the many things that most people do not know from reading on paper spec is the autofocusing performance. The higher end of the camera tends to be much better. Example; when the subject is moving around, low light etc....

So far from my experince, the best autofocusing camera is 1Ds and 1D because not only they are reliable... but they are the only one can focus with small subject compare to the frame. Maybe the Nikon D4 later will improve on this with smaller sensor. It is so dangerous when you need to autofocus on full body potrait at f1.2(Canon)/f1.4 (Nikon)

Second best is the Canon 5D. It is flawless with static subject with only one common problem among all SLR (except 1D series) is subject cannot be too small.

Nikon D200 pula is kind of mixed performance... sometime I dunno how to rate. Because static subject is ok... but moving subject usually one shot only clear... out of all the burst... maybe I dunno know the optimised setting la. I yet to test the D300 on this aspect... Should be improve.

Nikon D2X also my finding not perfect... As some autofocusing tracking is perfect.... other almost always OOF a bit... because different people camera and lenses... It should be needing calibration for some camera.. I guess the owner just do not know it need the calibration... It is solvable issue. The problem is with ISO800, noise is not so acceptable...

Canon 40D is pretty good generally... but still will hunt with extremely dark light when I have to use around 1/100 at ISO1600 with my f1.2 lenses. The limit is around 1/200 for autofocusing to function well. But I found solution to this.... Use the ST-E2 to help autofocusing... And it improve a lot!!!

Sorry to say these, but my experince with other beginners camera really suck at autofocusing...

Oops, you're right. Only Tamron has 17-50mm f2.8. Tokina's 16-50mm f2.8.

I thought that the nay sayers of D40's main point is that it doesn't have *cheap* primes. Since when 85mm prime is cheap?

Come on guys, the buyer is looking for a choice between 350D and D40 (maybe other budget DSLRs). We all know D300 and 40D is da bomb in the DSLR world, but really, not everyone willing to spend 8 - 10K on body + lens + flash. Ever heard of the term "testing the waters"?

Canon EF85 f1.8 is only RM1300 and the results are fantastic! I bet the Nikon price should be similar.

Once you see the result, this RM1300 is nothing la...

But if you want more background blur, then have to pay much more la...

[quote=soulfly,Feb 4 2008, 09:30 AM]that's a common stereotype. it might be slightly expensive, but not damn expensive okay.

[/quote]

Maybe i dun like the third party lens, Cause my Sigma 24-70 F2.8 had went back to shop just about 1 week with only 500 shoot die liao.

I prefer a good lens now from the original 1 like canon or Nikon.

I this my previous experiance.

Now Fotokem agree me to change Canon 24-70 f2.8 but the cost damn scrary about RM3500++

I need to add some more about RM2300.

Fotokem give me about 1 week more to think whether to change this lens or not.

Advise lah buy geniue item lah.

---

Added on February 4, 2008, 10:41 amNikon D200 pula is kind of mixed performance... sometime I dunno how to rate. Because static subject is ok... but moving subject usually one shot only clear... out of all the burst... maybe I dunno know the optimised setting la. I yet to test the D300 on this aspect... Should be improve.



[/quote]

Review on D300 is good lah.

1 more is D3, the faster focusing camera in the world for the pro level.

I really start to love Nikon very much.

even Sony own lenses aren't that much expensive, unless you're comparing them to low end Canon lenses.

THESE ARE OFFICIAL MSRP PRICE FROM CANON/NIKON/SONY

Basic lens:
Nikkor AF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 - RM598
Nikkor AF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 II - RM599
Canon 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 II USM - RM677
Sony 18-70mm f3.5-5.6 kit lens - RM799
Canon 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 USM - RM887
Nikkor AF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 VR - RM988

Wide angle:
Sony 11-18mm f4.5-5.6 - RM2799
Canon 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM - RM3290
Nikkor AF-S 12-24mm f4 - RM3988

Zoom:
Sony Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 24-70mm f2.8 SSM - RM56xx ($1749.99 USD)
Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f2.8 - RM5988
Canon 24-70mm f2.8L USM - RM6570

Sony 55-200mm f4-5.6 - RM7xx ($229.99 USD)
Nikkor AF-S 55-200mm f4-5.6 - RM938
Nikkor AF-S 55-200mm f4-5.6 VR - RM1098
Canon 55-200mm f4.5-5.6 II USM - RM1142

Canon 70-200mm f2.8L USM - RM6923
Nikkor AF-S 70-200 f2.8 VR - RM6988
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM - RM8640
Sony 70-200 f2.8G SSM - RM8999

Nikkor 70-300mm f4-5.6 - RM599
Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 VR - RM2188
Sony 70-300mm f4.5-5.6G SSM - RM25xx ($799.99 USD)
Canon 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM - RM3602
Canon 70-300mm f4.5-5.6DO IS USM - RM5886

Canon 75-300mm f4-5.6 III - RM988
Sony 75-300mm f4.5-5.6 - RM999
Canon 75-300mm f4-5.6 III USM - RM1130

Standard/tele:
Nikkor 20mm f2.8 - RM2238
Sony 20mm f2.8 - RM2399

Nikkor 28mm f2.8 - RM998
Sony 28mm f2.8 - RM1199

Nikkor 50mm f1.4 - RM1218
Sony 50mm f1.4 - RM1650

Nikkor 85mm f1.8 - RM1638
Sony Carl Zeiss Planar T* 85mm f1.4 - RM41xx ($1299.99 USD)
Nikkor 85mm f1.4 - RM4388

Nikkor DC 135mm f2 - RM4888
Sony 135mm f2.8 [T4.5] STF - RM5450
Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar-T 135mm f1.8 - RM5999

1.4x teleconverter:
Nikkor AF-S 1.4X - RM1488
Sony 1.4x G - RM1799
Canon 1.4x II - RM1869

Wow, where u get the price?

Very interesting session. We can make a new thread on the Camera updated price list around MALAYSIA.

Since Lowyat dun have this thread. U can make 1 thread host by u?

We can let some ppl to know about the price and help them to save some money lol.

I would advise not to trust online review too much la... Many are bias and worst, most do not know what they are talking about and just keep copying other people words, which towards what they wanted to hear.

Example, there are still monkeys claiming that EF50 f1.8 is sharper than EF50 f1.4 or films are superior than digital even it is 1Ds. It is why I keep loaning my 50mm to my friends to open thier mind that most forummers have no ideas on what they are talking about. Now they believe what I said after shooting, trying and review by themselve.


Canon EF135 f2 L is only RM3300 with local Malaysia warranty.
If I remember well Sony/Leica version is RM6800 there...

I agree wit u. Leica lens is really expensive and 1 more thing about Sony and Panasonic DSLR user. The lens all like alien. Hard to find around KL with best price. I mean good price lah.

Seldom camera shop sell this type of lens. (correct me if I'm wrong. ok)

I try before the 50mm f1.8 & 50mm f1.4. Result 50mm f1.4 is better than 50mm f1.8. But come to f2.8, the 50mm f1.8 is slightly better than 50mm f1.4.

updated some of the prices, based on Shashinki pricing, which is usually higher than what you can get from shop

Some more the Canon 135L is already perfect in term of optical performance even at wide open, good price, ultra-fast autofocus, super-high success rate in getting focused pictures. What else can be improved? There is no reason why someone can pay double the price... and get something less in result. First thing, personally I do not believe the autofocus of Leica can beat Canon.


Different finding then.

The major differences IMO is the quality of lense coating where you can clear see more contrast with the 50 f1.4 and the f1.8 flare much more easier, which will degrade the overall picture quality. I think the Nikon f1.8 should be better than Canon f1.8. But on the other hand, Canon f1.4 is clearly better than Nikon f1.4, beating other brands as well. So far there is no competition for Canon 50mm and 85mm primes.

Anyway, so far no one come near to the performance of Nikon 14-24 If I have too much money, really can think of getting one... but how to use CPL? One day must try and to confirm the superior performance that one zoom can beat Canon L primes.... Really that geng meh?

wow. a200 really offers a lot with 2.5k. if i'm the one who are looking for my 1st DSLR with limited budget, it would definitely be a200. but not sure how good is the results la.

damn i must pay sony style a visit.

I agree on the flare on Nikkor's f1.8. Must be very careful if there's a bright (or even slightly bright) light source behind the subject when shooting at f1.8. But of course, stepping down slightly to f3 or so would work to eliminate most flare.

The only time when need to shoot at f1.8 is when light is damn low anyway.

Btw, we kind OT liau hehe

Good sharing brother.

AF speed of course is canon lah.

Who can beat Canon Lens.

Dun tell me Sony lens can beat canon.

This will become a joke.

guys, put this thing straight,

Cannot Autofocus != Cannot Use.

for those who havent touch and manual focus with D40 before, let me tell u how u use manual focus lens with D40.

there are 2 ways :

1) U choose ur AF point, aim to the subject u wanna take, u twist the focusing urself, and when u twist to a point the subject is in focus, there is a small green dot inside the viewfinder will tell u that. Thus, you will know when u are in focus with the subject.

The differences with autofocus ? Slower and less noise, That's it.

2) U believe your eyes more that the camera, u view thru the viewfinder, twist the focus ring till ur subject is in focus, u press the shutter. If practice good enuff, u can be fast and more accurate than the camera at some times.

And the reason why i sell my 50mm f1.8 is not bcoz it cant autofocus with my d40. It is just that I dun get used in using prime lens, esp. in 50mm range, i find it very hard to compose a nice pic, and more over I seldom took models, figures, and portraits photos.

IMO, cannot autofocus mean cannot use, unless it is special lenses and special usages like super-wide (prefer focus based on hyper-focusing distance), critical tripod macro, TS-E lenses for building etc...

Just sharing a story. My neobour just finish shooting some potrait with his D40x with 50 f1.8. On screen it is sharp, happy happy. Reach home baru tahu all pictures OOF! He is kind of pissed of with his gears now.... mainly because he do not know how to tell the lenglui he shot....

nothing offense but your friend dun understand his gear enuff. There is a green dot for him to see where it is in focus or no. He could have be using f1.8 all the way (thinking that f1.8 give strong bokeh). I dun see why he cant use the 50 f1.8 with manual focus. I even used the 50mm f1.8 to shoot ppl playing beach volley ball, I dun find any problem, just that the focal length is dame long (after x1.5), i have to stand far away and looked like a noob when ppl ask me why u shoot from so far

goldfries: I only remember the price points for the biggest flashes heh. People usually upgrade flashes if they buy the weaker ones.

To do wireless flash on a Canon, you need a Canon EOS 450D, or a Canon 580EX/580EX II to be on the body (and then another flash), or a Canon ST-E2 transmitter. This makes it by far the most expensive flash system.

The 580EX does not have Optical Slave Mode built in. You can't use it with a digicam.

To do wireless flash on a Nikon, you need a SU-800 Commander (if you have a D40/D40x/D50). If not, you can just raise your built-in flash and trigger a SB-600/SB-800 wirelessly.

The SB-800 also has a SU-4 mode, which is an Optical Slave Mode. You can use it with a digicam, or a Sony dSLR in Wireless Mode. This makes it the most useful flash unit because it is compatible with Nikon, Canon, Sony (in wireless), Pentax and Olympus.

In fact, you can even use the SB-800 in SU-4 mode with a Sony Ericsson K800i flash!

To do wireless flash on a Sony/Konica Minolta, you don't need to buy anything else! Just raise the built-in flash and trigger a F36AM/F56AM wirelessly.

The F56AM does not have Optical Slave Mode built in. You can't use it with a digicam.

dazzle: Again, Sony lenses are not expensive unless you talk about the F2.8 G lenses. About all Tamron lenses are made in Sony mount, and the recent Sigmas are now made for Sony mount as well.

soulfly: Don't forget that Sony lenses are 15-20% cheaper in shops. Please factor that in when quoting price here.

The Canon ST-E2 is fun to use and it is so light. It also help autofocusing in extreme low light when you want to shoot without flash.

Optical Slave Mode -> I think those things are super cheap la... I also has one, letting to my friends to play play...

By the way, those optical slave mode will have problem with Canon flash system as the ETTL will pre-flash and triggle the slave optical flash gun. Its seems to work, but the additional flash with slave will not appear on the pictures.

Solution is rather simple, just weaken the ETTL pre-flash with tissue papers, or some condom...

I was comparing Canon and Sony MSRP price to make it fair. Comparing with normal retail stores is not too fair since different shops give different pricing.


Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar-T 135mm f1.8 - RM5999
Sony 135mm f2.8 [T4.5] STF - RM5450


dude... the Canon price I put was from Canon's official website.


That is if you're talking about high end Canon lenses, not all USM lenses are that fast. Smooth focusing, yes...but not essentially fast. Take example of the kit lens. 350D, 400D and A100. To be honest, I feel that all of them are quite similar, with the A100 tend to be more 'devastating' (lol) with its body screw drive motor. The Canon 18-55 USM is no doubt, smoother and more quiet, but not fast.

You might wanna read this article just as example: [attachmentid=393445]

The Sony body used in the review was A100. What if it was A200/A700 with the 1.7x faster focusing motor

THis Canon price confirm crazy la... Shop also selling RM3300 for local warranty, while those water stock is less than RM3000.

Good Statement.

I agree wit u.

For the entry level, No brand can win canon 350D overall.

I mean overall .ok

Believe us, Canon 400D @ 350D is ok.

I mean damn good oredy.

Why i used damn word. Cause is damn good for this price.

lol..u guys argue about lens..The TS also pengsan already after read all this

I'd choose 350D also, apart from the autofocus thingie.... 350D has more AF point, more megapixel, can use battery grip, etc.

One more thing to add...

For those having Canon 300D/350D/400D/450D/500D, D30/D60/10D/20D/30D/40D/50D/60D please have a try on the Canon EF85 f1.8 USM and EF100 f2 USM... The pictures will turn out great and you will then understand the power of dSLR!

And the price is certainly good!

Those are really great lense... affordable... fantastic picture quality, super fast autofocus, small in size, but not really light... just try....

And for those having Canon 1D/1Ds mark 1/II/III/IV/V/VI, take a look at EF85 f1.2 L II and EF135 f2 L

The Nikons and Sony A700 have a AF Assist Light, so no ST-E2 required for extreme low light.

I believe you can trigger the optical slaves using the manual power mode of the built-in flash, on the Nikon D80, Canon 40D and Sony A700.

I still think a Sony A200 is a better deal than the Canon 350D if you have the money - better body grip, more ergonomic battery grip, better ISO performance, spot metering, wireless flash out of the box, bigger and more usable 2.7" LCD, much better kit lens (the Canon 18-55mm non-IS is horribly soft).

Ok brother,

In my waitting list oredy for 85mm f1.8.

I dunno lah, look like i prefer fix lens more that zoom lens.

Haha, i easy to use lol and u can know what is the out come on the photo.

All my picture i take all in Manual mode.

I gurantee you will not regret getting this lense.

learn to use manual.

U can know what picture and what result before the picture is out.