Lowyat.NET > The ZERO DAC + Headamp (NO 56K)

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 12:11 AM

ok children....giving u some teaser pix first of a DAC that ive been testing these past few days...still in the middle of burning in. so pix first...

reviews are gonna take awhile...wanna let it burn in first..also very busy now...next week office moving...so not much time to sit and listen. anyway...on with pr0n.

would like to thank the person who supplied me the DAC in confidence and giving me a chance to test it out. wont reveal who he is....will let him do it himself if he wants to be known. thanks for the chance bro

BULK THREAD - go order!!!

ZERO DAC @ Head-Fi ( friggin long thread & fast growing

)

Duh BoX

PeEkAbOo! comes with optical cable
user posted image

the optical cable...brand is Choseal. for those Jln Pasar regulars, u shoud have seen this brand at a few shops.
user posted image

just in case someone who can read chinese is curious what it says at the back

the DAC itself and how its packed. with plastic styrofoam like thingy and some styrofoam-ish case to protect it.
user posted image

the entire package... Manual (in Chinese), DAC, Power cable, Optical cable
user posted image

front view....doesnt it look like a certain Z product??
user posted image

belakang mari view...aka back view la.
user posted image

top view...small vents to let out hot air. suitable enough as the unit isnt very hot (could be its directly under aircond heh)
user posted image

bottom view...some foam like feets. wont scratch the surface and easy to move around.
user posted image

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 12:12 AM

time for some nekkid pictures

full topless view...
user posted image

the DAC section
user posted image

the DAC opamp. cant see from the pix so i wrote it down

the next few pictures are for those who has a fetish for capacitors... so here u go

(all the blue caps are of the same brand some kekekkekekeek brand

)

AMP section
user posted image

the opamp

the caps...which is written ELNA on it.
user posted image

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 12:13 AM

since people waiting for review......heres some points first...

soundstage is MUCH wider than my Fubar II + Cute Battery amp. which makes the sound sig a lil laid back. it also sounds "thicker" and has more body compared to my current setup. the highs arent piercing especially on my DT990 which is known to have very prominent highs (so it helps to tame it abit).

1 point though... compared to my Fubar II + Cute Battery II amp, the bass is SLIGHTLY lesser. which makes the double pedal bass slam for METAL abit lacking. but if ur music is NOT metal, i.e hip hop, fengtau, R&B etc etc. then this would do you good

EDIT: just to make things clear, this is still very good for metal. but im sort of a basshead. hence the comment on the above paragraph. also because im used to my current setup....but after a short while u get used to it. the difference is bass is very minimal.

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 12:13 AM

ZERO DAC Owners List....

mADmAN
Kyl3
ccschua
Andiboi
dark_evilz
kwekeugene
stormspider
abel
thh1212
gatevalve
kukarchoon
leshita87

LET THE SPAM BEGIN!!!

xtremedummy

Jan 22 2008, 12:38 AM

mind telling me which DAC chip ? AD1955?

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 12:45 AM

copied from the head-fi thread

Specifications of the ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp:
Receive chip: CS8416
Decode chip: AD1852
Analog operational amplifier chip: OPA2604
Signal to noise ratio: 120dB
Total harmonic distortion: 0.0005%
Dynamic range: 117dB
Frequency response: 20Hz - 30 kHz
Analog output level: 2V
Input interface:
One independent digital fiber input
One independent digital coaxial input
One RCA analog signal unbalanced output
One 6.3mm headphone signal output
Time delay switch for ON/OFF protection circuit
Individual PCB design for future upgrade capability
Hi End components and IC (less than 1% tolerance)
Separate and individual voltage regulators
Dual Mono Amp design
Double face PCB for reducing size

=Hanxz=

Jan 22 2008, 01:05 AM

zero or zhao lu

yeahs4.1

Jan 22 2008, 01:50 AM

price??
share share share

empire23

Jan 22 2008, 09:15 AM

Major parts upgrade required lol, gogogogo, add in new Elna caps, MUR820 diodes, tantalum stability caps, extra decoupling and takamisawa relays!

SYAMiLLiON

Jan 22 2008, 12:49 PM

mind to tell me the price

TeOtq

Jan 22 2008, 01:27 PM

lol,how is it sound?i think almost same price range with dah1 right?

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 07:11 PM

not gonna say anything about the price yet

lets just say its damn bang for buck.....

and as of right now...i like it man...seriously. will do better review later on...

Added on January 22, 2008, 7:11 pm

QUOTE(empire23 @ Jan 22 2008, 09:15 AM)

Major parts upgrade required lol, gogogogo, add in new Elna caps, MUR820 diodes, tantalum stability caps, extra decoupling and takamisawa relays!

that my friend, would be a job for you

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 07:28 PM

I saw only sell at EBAY and a hongky website.
I also saw some1(NCMK) from VR-zone forum said around SGD$130 inclusive of postage!! ( wow..that is cheap..dunno how true is this fella)
This is 1 of my DAC target also...but fund got diverted to other item..lol

kwekeugene

Jan 22 2008, 08:24 PM

Looking forward to the review...

How does it compare to the iBasso D1 and Fubar?

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 08:25 PM

boys and girls.... BULK THREAD is up!!!

order urs NOW!!!

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 08:30 PM

QUOTE(mADmAN @ Jan 22 2008, 08:25 PM)

boys and girls.... BULK THREAD is up!!!

order urs NOW!!!

Fuyo..very interesting price...
Wat I like about it is option to opamp rolling....but if rolling 4Xopa627 with browndog adapter...another RM300 there!!!

GodLuvSxS

Jan 22 2008, 08:32 PM

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 08:30 PM)

Fuyo..very interesting price...
Wat I like about it is option to opamp rolling....but if rolling 4Xopa627 with browndog adapter...another RM300 there!!!

Hi mike. Based on one headfier's review, the opa627 works great with the ZERO dac!

ijan

Jan 22 2008, 08:32 PM

AD1852, OPA2604, basically Zhaolu AD, but Zhaolu has better approach at selecting components. Plus, the circuit is almost identical to the basic DAC circuit that is even apllied to Zhaolu, cept the dac buffer/pre-amp stage consist of only one opamp rather than two, meaning signal is non-balanced (zhaolu 2.5 and higher model do not haf balanced output but aminot mod would enable balanced).

Headphone out is also a simple buffered class-b output, almost similar..but then agian, everything is very similar in the audio electronic world.

The cache factor would be the price..but i bought a Zhaolu D2.5A (keep in mind, ac in-line filter, better regulation and board design, all capacitors are branded boutique capacitors, implementation is much better) at..- EDIT : I din know a bulk is on, so I wont bother -

GodLuvSxS

Jan 22 2008, 08:39 PM

QUOTE(ijan @ Jan 22 2008, 08:32 PM)

AD1852, OPA2604, basically Zhaolu AD, but Zhaolu has better approach at selecting components. Plus, the circuit is almost identical to the basic DAC circuit that is even apllied to Zhaolu, cept the dac buffer/pre-amp stage consist of only one opamp rather than two, meaning signal is non-balanced (zhaolu 2.5 and higher model do not haf balanced output but aminot mod would enable balanced).

Headphone out is also a simple buffered class-b output, almost similar..but then agian, everything is very similar in the audio electronic world.

The cache factor would be the price..but i bought a Zhaolu D2.5A (keep in mind, ac in-line filter, better regulation and board design, all capacitors are branded boutique capacitors, implementation is much better) at..- EDIT : I din know a bulk is on, so I wont bother -

Yup. basically it's a Zhaolu AD but coming with fuller and warmer sound, that's what the designer told me, before this he did working in designing the Zhaolu and now he decided to establish his own company. IMHO the ZERO is kinda a dac with lots of upgrade possibility as the Zhaolu, but since the Zhaolu 3.0 coming out, the company decided to discontinue the Zhaolu 2.x series, so people who did consider getting the Zhaolu 2.x and i wish that they may consider giving chance to this potential unit. Thanks

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 08:42 PM

SOURCE

some opamps tested in the ZERO....long list (quoted from head-fi)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

QUOTE(ijan @ Jan 22 2008, 08:32 PM)

AD1852, OPA2604, basically Zhaolu AD, but Zhaolu has better approach at selecting components. Plus, the circuit is almost identical to the basic DAC circuit that is even apllied to Zhaolu, cept the dac buffer/pre-amp stage consist of only one opamp rather than two, meaning signal is non-balanced (zhaolu 2.5 and higher model do not haf balanced output but aminot mod would enable balanced).

Headphone out is also a simple buffered class-b output, almost similar..but then agian, everything is very similar in the audio electronic world.

The cache factor would be the price..but i bought a Zhaolu D2.5A (keep in mind, ac in-line filter, better regulation and board design, all capacitors are branded boutique capacitors, implementation is much better) at..- EDIT : I din know a bulk is on, so I wont bother -

i dont speak ur language man...but i guessing ur saying the Zhaolu is better. wont be surprised honestly. but considering those damn things are difficult to get now... i think this is actually quite a steal. it really does sound good (too lazy to write review right now

)

the unit i have is on loan....heck, i just might buy it off

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 08:50 PM

QUOTE(mADmAN @ Jan 22 2008, 08:42 PM)

SOURCE

some opamps tested in the ZERO....long list (quoted from head-fi)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

i dont speak ur language man...but i guessing ur saying the Zhaolu is better. wont be surprised honestly. but considering those damn things are difficult to get now... i think this is actually quite a steal. it really does sound good (too lazy to write review right now

)

the unit i have is on loan....heck, i just might buy it off

lol..i also dun speak that lingo..
But Rm410 for a external DAC sure will pwn those PCI sound card kaw kaw....I am comparing those who use PC as source...Nowaday, most medium price range MOBO come with at least optical output...
I would said is another alternative to PC user who have audiophile sense...

yeah_guyz

Jan 22 2008, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 08:50 PM)

lol..i also dun speak that lingo..
But Rm410 for a external DAC sure will pwn those PCI sound card kaw kaw....I am comparing those who use PC as source...Nowaday, most medium price range MOBO come with at least optical output...
I would said is another alternative to PC user who have audiophile sense...

RM410 really

definitely worth to try it

madman, i am waiting for you bring your dac come to my home...lets AB test with DAH1...wait after CNY or march i will be free

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 09:47 PM

QUOTE(yeah_guyz @ Jan 22 2008, 09:43 PM)

RM410 really

definitely worth to try it

madman, i am waiting for you bring your dac come to my home...lets AB test with DAH1...wait after CNY or march i will be free

wat la..need to wait that long...maybe other DAH01 owner (cough cough cough TeOtq) can have a AB test this weekend..

mADmAN

Jan 22 2008, 09:49 PM

WAH......senang senang hati only wanna setup appointment for me??

not free this weekend. need to work

~~but no worries...next week i got dental surgery (removing widsom tooth) so meaning i got few days MC!!!~~

EDIT: crap....just remembered...next week moving office so my surgery oso have to delay

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 09:54 PM

QUOTE(mADmAN @ Jan 22 2008, 09:49 PM)

WAH......senang senang hati only wanna setup appointment for me??

not free this weekend. need to work

~~but no worries...next week i got dental surgery (removing widsom tooth) so meaning i got few days MC!!!~~

EDIT: crap....just remembered...next week moving office so my surgery oso have to delay

but how to fight...RM1K vs RM400...maybe if even ..this 1 still win..lol..
Anway, looking forward for more reviews from other people..

yeah_guyz

Jan 22 2008, 09:55 PM

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 09:47 PM)

wat la..need to wait that long...maybe other DAH01 owner (cough cough cough TeOtq) can have a AB test this weekend..

lol...TeoTQ not in MALAYSIA la... he is foreiner...LOL

Added on January 22, 2008, 9:57 pm

QUOTE(yeah_guyz @ Jan 22 2008, 09:55 PM)

lol...TeoTQ not in MALAYSIA la... he is foreiner...LOL

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 09:54 PM)

but how to fight...RM1K vs RM400...maybe if even ..this 1 still win..lol..
Anway, looking forward for more reviews from other people..

never try never know..LOL,
dont judge something by price...try with own ear

but look at the spec of both DAC...RM400 will lose la

GodLuvSxS

Jan 22 2008, 10:02 PM

QUOTE(yeah_guyz @ Jan 22 2008, 09:55 PM)

lol...TeoTQ not in MALAYSIA la... he is foreiner...LOL

Added on January 22, 2008, 9:57 pm
never try never know..LOL,
dont judge something by price...try with own ear

but look at the spec of both DAC...RM400 will lose la

Of course RM400 will lose

Different level

AD1955 + HEF188, the ZERO just cheapo AD1852 + dunno what design internal amp

yeah_guyz

Jan 22 2008, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(GodLuvSxS @ Jan 22 2008, 10:02 PM)

Of course RM400 will lose

Different level

AD1955 + HEF188, the ZERO just cheapo AD1852 + dunno what design internal amp

godluv you got demo unit? u stay nearby w.maju right? can i go kkcc u ;p

GodLuvSxS

Jan 22 2008, 10:07 PM

QUOTE(yeah_guyz @ Jan 22 2008, 10:04 PM)

godluv you got demo unit? u stay nearby w.maju right? can i go kkcc u ;p

I leave my unit loan at mADmAN there, I'm not from W.Maju, but it's just that I may be frequent there maybe once in a month, cos I'm Ipoh lang

EDITED: For those who like to do opamp rolling, me and mADmAN could teach you how to get impressive FREE opamp lol

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 10:20 PM

QUOTE(GodLuvSxS @ Jan 22 2008, 10:07 PM)

I leave my unit loan at mADmAN there, I'm not from W.Maju, but it's just that I may be frequent there maybe once in a month, cos I'm Ipoh lang

EDITED: For those who like to do opamp rolling, me and mADmAN could teach you how to get impressive FREE opamp lol

lai lai..teach me/ enlighten me.I need single channel opamp..

...so far I rolled opa627...really like the detail and also the tight, deep bass. Not sure about other.

TeOtq

Jan 22 2008, 11:13 PM

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 09:47 PM)

wat la..need to wait that long...maybe other DAH01 owner (cough cough cough TeOtq) can have a AB test this weekend..

why me?!lol
i not at malaysia ler,now work at singapore.
rm400+ really really a good price!!!!

mikelanding

Jan 22 2008, 11:29 PM

QUOTE(TeOtq @ Jan 22 2008, 11:13 PM)

why me?!lol
i not at malaysia ler,now work at singapore.
rm400+ really really a good price!!!!

errr....coz U a easy kena poison guy ma...lol..j/k
Ya...RM410 is cheap...must resist!!!

Look at the opamp rolling option listed, so much fun le....

TeOtq

Jan 22 2008, 11:35 PM

QUOTE(mikelanding @ Jan 22 2008, 11:29 PM)

errr....coz U a easy kena poison guy ma...lol..j/k
Ya...RM410 is cheap...must resist!!!

Look at the opamp rolling option listed, so much fun le....

lol...
but with dah1 maybe wont upgrade or "short" period

haha,but read the review at head fi,tis Tian Yun really nice!

ccschua

Jan 22 2008, 11:48 PM

someone pls help, where to get these 2 item

LM4562:

OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog Adaptor

GodLuvSxS

Jan 22 2008, 11:50 PM

QUOTE(ccschua @ Jan 22 2008, 11:48 PM)

someone pls help, where to get these 2 item

LM4562:

OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog Adaptor

If I'm not wrong, you could PM Walabies, he got few stock left.

Akabane@DrJackel

Jan 22 2008, 11:53 PM

Another nice DAC. i think should upgrade myself again this time.

SandyPiggy

Jan 23 2008, 12:36 PM

Wow .... a great DAC and considering to get one for my dad as birthday gift, but still gotta read more review before the final decision.

ccschua

Jan 23 2008, 01:22 PM

Below is the comment from head-fi.org. This clears the doubt of what the noob like me keep asking the same question all over the net.

" basically DAC performs in analogy to a good player dac circuit like that in marantz CD 6000. In turn, u can couple the DAC with dvd player having optical out/with computer optical. In this way, u dont have to buy a quality cd player and dvd player. " dunno if my assumption is correct.

--------------------------------------------------

As a DAC itself, comparing the Zero DAC with the internal DAC of the Marantz CD6000 OSE, I see they have different personalities. The Marantz is more crispy and more "in front" sound, while the Zero DAC is more relaxed and "analogic", but without losing much in details. After few months, I must admit I prefer the Zero DAC, more relax and charm, expecially with classical music and jazz!
With the pre-amp stage on, I see the sound is not impacted, I mean either in bad or in good. As headphone, it provides power, control and soundstage to my Sessheiser without any hint of noise, but I cannot make any significant review here (I don't have any dedicated headamp to compare with).

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-ze...58/index71.html

GodLuvSxS

Jan 23 2008, 01:36 PM

QUOTE(ccschua @ Jan 23 2008, 01:22 PM)

Below is the comment from head-fi.org. This clears the doubt of what the noob like me keep asking the same question all over the net.

" basically DAC performs in analogy to a good player dac circuit like that in marantz CD 6000. In turn, u can couple the DAC with dvd player having optical out/with computer optical. In this way, u dont have to buy a quality cd player and dvd player. " dunno if my assumption is correct.

--------------------------------------------------

As a DAC itself, comparing the Zero DAC with the internal DAC of the Marantz CD6000 OSE, I see they have different personalities. The Marantz is more crispy and more "in front" sound, while the Zero DAC is more relaxed and "analogic", but without losing much in details. After few months, I must admit I prefer the Zero DAC, more relax and charm, expecially with classical music and jazz!
With the pre-amp stage on, I see the sound is not impacted, I mean either in bad or in good. As headphone, it provides power, control and soundstage to my Sessheiser without any hint of noise, but I cannot make any significant review here (I don't have any dedicated headamp to compare with).

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-ze...58/index71.html

IMHO, I always think that it's good to opt for external DAC instead of soundcard, it provides more flexibility from time to time, no matter you are integrating the DAC into HTPC or doing proper hifi setup

walabies

Jan 23 2008, 01:50 PM

Feel the power of standalone DAC!!! Get this, then if happy upgrade to DA-10!!!

Btw, ZLs are not hard to come by, we have two 2nd hand here soon.

empire23

Jan 23 2008, 02:07 PM

Come come madman, mod with me before i leave for Aust.

scottiebabie

Jan 23 2008, 02:24 PM

the Zero looks very nice Maddude esp. for the very low cost. looks like a great value to me. me thinks Empire Dudes rite in that it can do with some mods. all these products stand a very good chance of improvements even with simple mods like caps changes.

i'd mite be interested in a meet up (if our schedules coincide) with the Zero vs DAH1 as i can also bring my super mod iBasso D1. i did a whole buncha parts replacement + a power supply upgrade the other day and its a pretty stonking change....& i havent even done any opamp changes yet!

think about it - Zero vs DAH1 vs D1!

we'll see which is the ZERO & which is the HERO!!! lol....

ps:for the guyz thats been looking at DAC chip specs, let me reiterate that the "HERO" WONT be down to the superior DAC chip specs but the IMPLEMENTATION of said chip and the entire DAC unit. theres plenty of old NOS philips TD1541s and TI PCM1704 R2R based DACs that kicks asss. witness the much admired & venerated Wavelength DAC series all of which utilize old DAC chipsets.

back to the old adage guys - IT AINT WHAT U GOT - ITS HOW U USE WHAT YA GOT

GodLuvSxS

Jan 23 2008, 02:52 PM

QUOTE(scottiebabie @ Jan 23 2008, 02:24 PM)

the Zero looks very nice Maddude esp. for the very low cost. looks like a great value to me. me thinks Empire Dudes rite in that it can do with some mods. all these products stand a very good chance of improvements even with simple mods like caps changes.

i'd mite be interested in a meet up (if our schedules coincide) with the Zero vs DAH1 as i can also bring my super mod iBasso D1. i did a whole buncha parts replacement + a power supply upgrade the other day and its a pretty stonking change....& i havent even done any opamp changes yet!

think about it - Zero vs DAH1 vs D1!

we'll see which is the ZERO & which is the HERO!!! lol....

ps:for the guyz thats been looking at DAC chip specs, let me reiterate that the "HERO" WONT be down to the superior DAC chip specs but the IMPLEMENTATION of said chip and the entire DAC unit. theres plenty of old NOS philips TD1541s and TI PCM1704 R2R based DACs that kicks asss. witness the much admired & venerated Wavelength DAC series all of which utilize old DAC chipsets.

back to the old adage guys - IT AINT WHAT U GOT - ITS HOW U USE IT

Wow, ZERO vs DAH1 VS D1 ... If the Zero could achieve up to 80% of the DAH1, I would be so glad

mADmAN

Jan 23 2008, 03:10 PM

would love to have a chance to have a go at the DAH1 man... of all the DACs so far thats the one thats enticed me the most

as for scheduling....almost everyone knows im constantly working. even today public holiday oso im in the office

Added on January 23, 2008, 3:10 pmempy.... when u leaving?

and how long would the mod take

also estimated cost.

(DAC isnt mine (yet?) still undecided to buy or not to buy. very tempting but we'll see

)

GodLuvSxS

Jan 23 2008, 03:21 PM

QUOTE(mADmAN @ Jan 23 2008, 03:10 PM)

would love to have a chance to have a go at the DAH1 man... of all the DACs so far thats the one thats enticed me the most

as for scheduling....almost everyone knows im constantly working. even today public holiday oso im in the office

Added on January 23, 2008, 3:10 pmempy.... when u leaving?

and how long would the mod take

also estimated cost.

(DAC isnt mine (yet?) still undecided to buy or not to buy. very tempting but we'll see

)

You can arrange some meet probably during your MC, although it's abit annoying for cant speaking comfortably, anyway it's a audiophile meeting what, listening do likely more in action!

ruffstuff

Jan 23 2008, 03:35 PM

Considering the price is cheaper than your current fu2, that's downgrade man!

mADmAN

Jan 23 2008, 03:52 PM

QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Jan 23 2008, 03:35 PM)

Considering the price is cheaper than your current fu2, that's downgrade man!

cant say like that man....price is not a determining factor of which is good or bad.

take Alien USB DAC for example. taht little bugger is cheap and can sound a whole lot better than most creative cards at more than twice the price.

like scotties been saying...its the implementation....

but like i also said in another thread...if i pick up the ZERO it wont be replacing my Fubar. ill still be looking around for a good DAC to fulfill all my requirements.

also like i said...there are pros and cons. which ill probably explain better in my review (once i find the time and energy to write it)

kwekeugene

Jan 23 2008, 04:23 PM

*Chuckles*

I think many ppl is holding back on the bulk until your review comes out

(me included)

Akabane@DrJackel

Jan 23 2008, 04:34 PM

madman, it time to do ur review here....

mADmAN

Jan 23 2008, 05:20 PM

dammit...i really wish i could write the review man...i do.

but im so busy right now.... even today public holiday have to work

seriously, i would recommend getting it.

okok some points first....
soundstage is MUCH wider than my Fubar II + Cute Battery amp. which makes the sound sig a lil laid back. it also sounds "thicker" and has more body compared to my current setup. the highs arent piercing especially on my DT990 which is known to have very prominent highs (so it helps to tame it abit).

1 point though... compared to my Fubar II + Cute Battery II amp, the bass is SLIGHTLY lesser. which makes the double pedal bass slam for METAL abit lacking. but if ur music is NOT metal, i.e hip hop, fengtau, R&B etc etc. then this would do you good

EDIT: just to make things clear, this is still very good for metal. but im sort of a basshead. hence the comment on the above paragraph. also because im used to my current setup....but after a short while u get used to it. the difference is bass is very minimal.