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lex
These are pretty old but some of those facts still do apply wink.gif

Reference: Eight Ways To Kill Your HDD (Part 1) http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/ibm_maxtor/3.shtml
QUOTE
Eight Ways To Kill Your HDD

Overclocking

Overclocking the system per se does not impose a direct threat to the HDD, however, things change once the PCI frequency goes beyond 38 MHz. Some older drives like the IBM Deskstar5 series would simply corrupt all data, some others like the Western Digitals were running fine up to 42 MHz PCI frequency without problems. The same was true for the older Samsung drives, however, those drives had pitiful performance anyway so we won't talk about them. Factors that influence the stability of the drive at higher IDE frequencies are amongst other things the quality and, as silly as it may appear, the installation of the UATA cables used.

Incorrect Orientation of UATA Cables

Before the days of Ultra DMA 33, IDE cables were available in about any form and shape and length. Some ultra-long cables were up to 24 and 27" long and meant to be used in full tower, others had the middle connectors in all kinds of positions. UDMA/33 brought on some more stringent limitations on the cable length and positioning of the middle connector and while the specs still left open the question of which connector had to be used for master or slaves, certain high-speed drives like the WesternDigital WDC22500, WDC24300 or WDC26400 would either not run or else suffer from extremely compromised longevity when hooked up to the center connector as single drive on that particular channel. This phenomenon was as puzzling (after all, there should not be any difference since the same wires are used) as it was consistent between users and chipsets. The main reason why the phenomenon was so counterintuitive was that with shorter cable length, most drives would function better on any overclocked system, so why was it necessary to add trace length and move the drive to the very end of the IDE cable?

The explanation is actually very straightforward and leads directly into the definitions of the current UATA cables. All high-speed data transfer cables need termination at the end of any signal path. In the easiest case, termination is just a resistor to ground that absorbs voltage amplitudes also known as signals. If such a termination is missing at the end of the cable, the signal will bounce back and eventually interfere with any forward-moving signal at any point in between. Any drive, though, will act as a terminator but it should be clear that termination is effective only if it is at the end of the cable and not somewhere in between. The proof was in the pudding, that is, by cutting off the tail of the IDE cable, the same drive would suddenly work on the same middle connector that did not function before. At the time, we thought of it as black magic but I still have my 4" home-made, single drive IDE cables that are working flawlessly.

Ultra ATA cables

Aside from signal reflection, another major problem of the 40 wire cables was the electrical cross-talk between data and command lines. Deterioration of signal integrity because of cross talk increases dramatically with cable length, which is the reason for the twisted pair specifications of CAT-5 Ethernet cables, just to give one example. Electrical cross-talk can successfully be eliminated by inserting shields between the individual data wires and this is exactly the reason why Ultra ATA/66 and higher are using 80 wires since 40 of these wires are tied to ground and act as shields between the signal wires.

In addition, UATA/66 cables always have one connector that, by definition, has to be connected to the mainboard, one connector on the far end that is the master or single drive and one connector that is for the slave device in the middle of the chain. The ratio between the cable segments is one of the factors but the real issue is the fact that only on the blue connector are the shield wires connected to ground. After reading the above, there should be no question regarding the rationale behind this arrangement.

Rounded Cables

Some companies have gotten really cute with the design of what has become known as rounded cables. Depending on the manufacturer, the ribbons are sliced into single or multiple strands and then bundled tightly. In most cases, there should be no problems, however, there have been numerous suspicions on many bulletin boards about rounded cables causing higher coaster rates while burning CDs. Likewise, users of rounded cables appear to suffer from abnormally high failure rates of HDDs. Again, this could be pure coincidence but it is food for thought, at least.

Removable Drive Racks

Aside from the speculations about rounded cables, there are some hard data on removable drive racks. Removable drive racks are casings that can be inserted into a 5.25 drive bay and which hold a HDD inside a casing that can slide in and out the drive bay to lock into a connector in the back of the device. Even though this kind of gizmo does not allow hot swapping of HDDs, it allows removal of a drive at the turn of a key or so the manufacturers claim.

We tested several of these devices with the IBM 60GXP and the unfortunate result was that not a single drive survived in the removable rack for more than a few hours. Symptoms usually started with lagging of the system to go to the Windows splash screen after the POST. This lag continued to get progressively worse over several reboots until the drive finally was no longer recognized at all.

Interestingly, if the drive was removed from the removable racks during the initial stages of errors and hooked up to a standard UATA cable, full functionality was restored immediately. Whenever we waited until the drive was no longer recognized, switching back could not resolve the problems anymore.

A repetition of the above background appears like carrying owls to Athens but imagine an additional interface with rerouting of the signals from the original cable to a snap-in connector and from there through an additional cable inside the "coffin" to the drive. In short, adding three additional interfaces does not appear a good idea. Per se, though, the concept is great, though, only, don't use it with anything faster than a UATA/66 drive.
On the round cable issue, I am using them.. sweat.gif However I always check for qualified and quality ones before buying.. (mine is from CoolerMaster) rolleyes.gif
lex
Reference: Eight Ways To Kill Your HDD (Part 2) http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/ibm_maxtor/4.shtml
QUOTE
TRAS Violation: The Creeping Corruption of a HDD

One of the most common reasons for HDD failure is what is called tRAS violation. tRAS is the minimum bank open time of the DRAM, that is, we are talking about system memory here. Many mainboard manufacturer still include Ultra and Turbo settings in their CMOS setup options that are only workable at 100 MHz memory bus settings, a.k.a PC1600 mode. One setting that has absolutely no impact on performance is the minimum bank open time or tRAS, while the same setting can have catastrophic consequences for data integrity including HDD addressing schemes if the latency is set too short. In theory, tRAS can be as short as tRCD + CAS delay, however, in reality, the minimum bank open time is dictated by the RAS Pulse Width, that is the time required to reach a voltage differential between memory bitlines and reference lines to safely identify a 0 or 1 logical state.

The main reason why tRAS violation does commonly lead to HDD corruption may relate to the translation of the physical memory space into virtual memory sub-spaces by the operating system and finally writing the data back to the storage media but it is not entirely clear what is going on there. A fact is, though, that a tRAS value of 5 is adequate for PC1600 or 100 MHz operation. At 133 Mz or PC2100, tRAS should never undercut 6T, likewise, at PC2700, the value should be increased to 7T where applicable. In terms of performance, tRAS settings hardly make any difference. We challenged some performance gurus at AMD on this matter and they reported a drop in Quake frame rates from 792 fps to 790 fps when increasing tRAS from 5T to 6T.

Tipping Over of Cases

By far the most common damage to drives occurs through mechanical interference. The level of stress depends on the operational state of the drive, that is a drive that is not powered up will withstand some 300 G over 2 msec whereas in a drive that is up and running, 30 G suffice to cause errors and bad sectors. 30 G sounds rather high but any case tipping over and falling on a non-carpeted floor will easily exceed this value. The typical consequence is that the next bootup will terminate with the well known Chrrr, chrrr, chrrr ..... where the splash screen used to be.

Vibrations, Mortal Enemies of HDDs

Less dramatic but likewise common is the drumming on a somewhat fragile desk or bouncing of objects like bouncing balls of computer cases or simply hitting the case with the vacuum cleaner. This kind of scenario can cause vibrations that are the worst possible scenario for any HDD. If a drive can sustain a shock of 30-50G, the tolerance towards vibrations is usually only 1% of the shock tolerance. Typical values are in the order of 0.5-0.7G. It is happening every day. Transporting systems back and forth to LAN parties falls into the same category, in cases like that I always remove the HDD and transport it separately.

Power Outages In The Midst Of Defragmentation

A relatively rare cause of HDD failure is a power outage in the middle of a defragmentation but I have seen it happen and even though the damage is non-permanent in most cases, it may require a low level format which results in complete loss of all data.

HDTach and Similar Benchmark Programs

As nice as these programs are, repetitive use of HDTach and similar utilities add excessive stress to the drive. Even though failure may not occur immediately after benchmarking the drive they can weaken the drive and all it will take is another straw to break the camel's back. All those are factors that should be taken into account when yet another drive gets corrupted or dies. Sometimes it is just not the drive but a user pattern.
gerrard capashen
Kinda Scary......
yuckfou
any forumers had actula experiences?
do share wit us!
pizzaboy
damn it these bloomin hardrives are damn fragile man.
strangely my 20GB and 15GB WD hardrives are still doing fine after all these years.
weird.....
matrixx
one definate 'way' that sure kill a hdd is to throw it into water ohmy.gif laugh.gif .. just kidding ya?. yep i agree with lex.
mac_kwong
another definate way is to put a magnet on top of your HDD, i think...
coz inside HDD everything works the "magnetic" way
gn01117135
anybody hav any solution for repairing hdd??
jahred
QUOTE(gn01117135 @ Jun 13 2005, 11:18 AM)
anybody hav any solution for repairing hdd??
i need the same thing also...contact me if you know anyone who can repair hdd
Aborden
Actually no, Magnets wont kill it. The HDD is magnetically sealed because it does not want interference and all the magnetic waves going throgh the computer.

P.S another way to spoil ur HDD is open its casing. This enables dust to get in between the contacts and the discs, which ruin the hard drive
Dark Steno
Oh Gosh! I need to open casing since it will be overheat.... sweat.gif What HDD cooler that is good?
jahred
i was asking for quoatation for WD 200gb is it ok?

cause it's says that maxtor kills data biggrin.gif

any recommendation?

notworthy.gif
lex
Some reading on how HDDs work and typical malfunction detection. wink.gif

Reference: Modern Hard disk drive
http://www.acelab.ru/products/pc-en/articl...nHDD/index.html cool.gif

Note: Some of the articles in there are pretty technical! sweat.gif

jahred
thanks for the info lex notworthy.gif
Skylinestar
does putting the hdd 90 degree (standing on the side) cases hdd failure?
malayneum
what about if always power off and restart the pc without following procedure (just switch off main power).
jahred
sometime i did that we the pc hangs...does that count?

why suiteng? what happened? firmware prob the same as me?
i still can't fix the firmware...so decided to buy a new one instead. maybe i will test to fix it later...
wodenus
QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Jun 22 2005, 07:40 PM)
does putting the hdd 90 degree (standing on the side) cases hdd failure?
I don't see why it should.
unitron
hehe.. i have 5 dead HDD drive we me at the moment.. from 8 GB to 40 GB.

most died because of heat. and one or two most likely during transport.
malayneum
how do u know its heat problem? what temp is normal?
warpats
My 80GB HDD just dead last week. Tried to used Maxtor diagnostic tools and and also Hiren Boot CD but didn't work. Luckily got spare 250GB HDD. cry.gif
Mcrae
can hdd prolongs the lifespan if we always reset the computer ?
jahred
i've just order WD200gb from my dealer instead he gave me a maxtor so i refuse to accept it and ask him to order WD...WD is ATA100 eik?
comee
For the PATA UDMA-66 Cable, (80 pin) it is not straight between the Master and Slave connectors. One way to verify this is to get two Hard Disk, Set both Jumper to CS mode and plug into the computer. The one that is plug into the Master will act as Master and the one that plug into Slave will remain slave. Your assumption that the two connectors are hooked on parallelly is not true.
i love mac OS
QUOTE
i've just order WD200gb from my dealer instead he gave me a maxtor so i refuse to accept it and ask him to order WD...WD is ATA100 eik?
WD means western digital hard disk,not ATA 100,ATA 100 means the hd transfer speed is 100Mb/sec(teori)
zooloo
never used system drive in the removable rack b4.but my 20G hdd still works fine with that rack.just wondering y would anybody use mobile rack for system hdd??
ceo684
Mobile HDD rack? Unreliable huge "pen"drive
numlock
Just want to know...external hdd that converted from internal Hdd case...Is it worth to use of it in long term usage?
funito
i using 3.5 external harddisk for my backup and stored movies
zooloo
well,my mobile rack/external hdd is used for swapping anime n stuff.itz not used as the system.just makes my life easier sharing files with friends rather than opening the case n install/take out hdd all the time
kei18kun
don't on it 24 hours? if u work 24 hours a day, u also die
little_princess
missing my 160gig hdd... almost every 2 year i facing same problem with the hdd....
jahred
hehe brought a new hardisk recently....200gb...how to make sure that it's does heat up and make it stabilized biggrin.gif this is my precious hardisk lol.... hehe drool.gif
Scud_eSpade
QUOTE(jahred @ Jul 11 2005, 12:47 PM)
hehe brought a new hardisk recently....200gb...how to make sure that it's does heat up and make it stabilized biggrin.gif this is my precious hardisk lol.... hehe drool.gif
1.buy hdd cooler thumbup.gif . my hdd is hotter than my cpu la... >40c.
2. dont write on the hd 24 hours.. in case u r very eager to fill ur hd wif a lot of stuff from the net laugh.gif
3. dun trust one hd .. u hv to get another hd like me.. 80 gb of ext if anything happen to my 160 gb whistling.gif .. u never cant take anything for granted.

just my RM 0000.02
ryanso85
for me...my hdd always working at 36c-39c...even work more than 6 hours

i put a casing fan under the hdd..air blow towards the hdd

b4 i put that fan...my hdd can reach 50c...scary..

i oso not sure that can i put a fan blow toward hdd like that..dusty??
jahred
how to check hardisk tempreture....my cpu temp is 160/75 something2 like that
zooloo
i wanna know also...
Scud_eSpade
use Speed Fan
zooloo
installed speed fan.hdd temperature checked thumbup.gif but what is fan 1,fan 2,fan 3?i know 1 of it is for processor but which 1?all 3 are showing sweat.gif
kong5091
Dont know is it related of not, 2 of my hard disk which i install fan on die faster than the one that i din install fan which currently still running smoothly without bad sector after 4years..........so for me i think the magnet from the fan got little bit related to the dead of my hard disk............
plankton
to know which fan in speedfan is which, compare it with ur mobo utility.. i used pc probe (asus) .. and then rename the fan in speedfan with the one in pc probe. just follow the help file step by step n ull be fine smile.gif
Oxigen
QUOTE(pizzaboy @ Jun 11 2005, 01:42 PM)
damn it these bloomin hardrives are damn fragile man.
strangely my 20GB and 15GB WD hardrives are still doing fine after all these years.
weird.....
things these days are better but definately more fragile...thats why theres a saying "old is gold"

-regards-
i love mac OS
ya,my maxtor 10gb hdd use 6 years also no problem.......& i have brought another new maxtor 40gb hdd,it seems that the new one hotter than the old 1
gestapo
my western digital 40MB still functioning up till now..aint that a record..but no use la 40MB,,maybe now they make hdd lower cost so the lifespan is not that long
devil_x
i heard using too much bittorrent will kill harddisk too...is that true?
lex
QUOTE(devil_x @ Jul 28 2005, 08:51 AM)
i heard using too much bittorrent will kill harddisk too...is that true?
Nopes... Modern HDDs is capable of 20MB/s to 70MB/s transfer rates. Downloading BT doesn't even come close to that speed (e.g. theoretical maximum from ordinary Streamyx connection is 100KB/s). Just make sure the HDD is always kept cool and have a good PSU. An AVR or UPS is recommended also. Do not overclock the PCI bus speed (which affects the IDE bus speed also) for stable operation. wink.gif
hiroko
QUOTE(lex @ Jul 29 2005, 11:15 AM)
Nopes... Modern HDDs is capable of 20MB/s to 70MB/s transfer rates. Downloading BT doesn't even come close to that speed (e.g. theoretical maximum from ordinary Streamyx connection is 100KB/s). Just make sure the HDD is always kept cool and have a good PSU. An AVR or UPS is recommended also. Do not overclock the PCI bus speed (which affects the IDE bus speed also) for stable operation. wink.gif
BT will kill hdd faster as from theory coz BT require the owner to send n receive from time to time which every part is require only just few kb only..thus reading n writing in consequences will make hdd die faster. But nowadays BT already use the built in buffer which use RAM as temporary storage n stored data the hdd for a certain of amount.

from my point to prevent hdd from bad sector -> do always full format the drive periodically to maintain the hdd.

to prevent from undetect -> use good psu, coz most of the time the board burn coz of over voltage n dun on off too offten.

on a hdd wif 24/7 will long lasting then on off frequently.

believe o not up to u , cos i repair hdd for few years, experience told me.
zooloo
@hiroko
on pc 24/7 prolongs hdd life??that is new info huhuh
loki
had lost 2 wd harddisk because of static electricity..
joylay83
QUOTE(hiroko @ Jul 29 2005, 04:46 PM)
to prevent from undetect -> use good psu, coz most of the time the board burn coz of over voltage n dun on off too offten.
hi... i have a seagate cheetah 17gb scsi hdd. it won't detect. when i plug power into it it won't turn hot. i can't test the hdd here in my house coz i dun have scsi cable. i installed winXP on the other scsi hdd and the system is very stable.

how do you know that this hdd is dead for sure??

power: antec 480W truepower for, Athlom MP 1800+ dual proc, 2x 17gb scsi (using pci adaptec raid, now the hdd suspected dead 1 is with me), tyan tiger mobo, 1gb ecc ram, 2 80gb seagate sata hdd (use adaptec sata pci raid too).

notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
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